Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Brent Valley Golf Club

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. 78.26 _{(spin me / revolutions)} 17:51, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Brent Valley Golf Club[edit]

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Not notable private golf course ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 10:15, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 10:15, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of England-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 10:15, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

weak keep What makes a golf club or golf course notable? This is adequately sourced as an article. Is a golf course notable as part of a gazetteer? In this case, I think the article is hinging on the social history aspect, and the club having been founded as early as 1909. That's a long time ago in golfing terms, placing it into the great English late-Victorian golf boom. I see that as significant enough to keep. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:28, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Golf-related deletion discussions. ...William, is the complaint department really on the roof? 12:38, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep Notable golf course. Andrew D. (talk) 12:48, 26 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Delete Non-notable golf course. Very short by modern standards. Never hosted an important event and never likely to. One many golf course founded in the UK in the pre-WWI period. Nigej (talk) 09:08, 27 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, North America¹⁰⁰⁰ 11:34, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Delete Id like to see more references MaskedSinger (talk) 16:50, 3 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Merge to Hanwell. Section on it there already. Hyperbolick (talk) 18:58, 5 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Organizations-related deletion discussions. Coolabahapple (talk) 00:41, 7 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. It's run of the mill and not notable. There's cites to personal emails, the records of the club, and other unreliable sources. Even if it were 110 years old, that's not rare in the UK, per Nigej. It has only 100 members, and appears not to be open to the public. No major 'masters' or similar golf event happens there. There's no evidence of notable members (perhaps royalty?). Bearian (talk) 16:24, 8 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You say the club "appears not to be open to the public". This is quite obviously incorrect. On the contrary, the course is a municipal course operated by the council, and open to everyone. If you refer to the club, rather than the club, it can also be joined very easily by anyone. I also disagree that the sources are unreliable. They include newspapers in the national archive and golf annuals in the British Library. 86.15.199.72 (talk) 15:29, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Reply posted prior to logging in by myself. Rugfoot (talk) 15:34, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The club currently has 175 members, not "only 100" as you state (where did you get this figure??). I know this as I have access to the club's membership data base. Rugfoot (talk) 16:07, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The club is hardly "run of the mill": it won Middlesex Club of the Year in 2022. Rugfoot (talk) 16:11, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Hugsyrup (talk) 12:13, 10 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Weak Keep - The references on the page include ones that we are unable to examine as they are in Ealing Library and the British Library. Per WP:NEXIST so long as the references likely exist to support notability we should assume it is notable. FOARP (talk) 12:42, 10 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
You may not be able to examine the references but should an article be deleted because of your own personal research limitations? When I created this page, I visited these libraries and found the sources first-hand. Rugfoot (talk) 15:32, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - fails WP:ORG. Lacks in-depth coverage, never hosted a major, nothing notable about it nor about events played there. Just Chilling (talk) 15:08, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The club has a long history (founded in 1909) but it is thriving now. It is notable for having won Middlesex Club of the Year as recently as 2022. Rugfoot (talk) 16:00, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. The available evidence indicates little to no support for notability. Of the three readily accessible sources, ref 1 is not independent and doesn't mention the club on the linked page (although on search of the entire site, there are a few passing mentions in blog posts); ref 4 mentions the club only in passing; and ref 5 does not mention the club at all. Of the offline sources, ref 9 is clearly not a reliable source; refs 3 and 10, being the obituary of a person are not likely to have significant coverage of the golf club. The rest have too little information available to assess, but based on the track record of what we can see, it is not justifiable to assume they contain enough to support notability. --RL0919 (talk) 16:15, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I disagree with your comments re Ref 1. The NAPGC is quite clearly an leading independent national body; the reference to the club on its website is not "passing". It is listed as one of the NAPGC's affiliated clubs. This is not a "blog post". Similarly, ref 4 is not a "passing" mention. The club was one of the main achievements of the subject of the obituary. On ref 5, it is disingenuous to say it doesn't mention the name "Brent Valley": that's because it had a different name. That's the whole point of this piece of information. Your assertion that ref 9 is not a reliable source is clearly groundless. The Middlesex County Times was a longstanding and leading regional newspaper. Again, on the obituary, the golf club was a major achievement in Albert Toley's life, so it is significantly covered in the obituary. Rugfoot (talk) 15:53, 16 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Keep passes WP:GEOFEAT Built in 1909 this course is an historic place. Passes WP:ORGCRITE with references: non-Trivial coverage exists in the Ealing Times, More non trivial here My London News, History of the club's founding detailed WP:NEXIST I can see how a WP:BEFORE missed the mark Lightburst (talk) 17:43, 17 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.