Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bill Herring (minor league pitcher)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus. Black Kite (t) 00:27, 28 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Bill Herring (minor league pitcher)[edit]

Bill Herring (minor league pitcher) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log)
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Non-notable minor league figure. Fails WP:BASE/N. Article indicates nothing that would make him inherently notable. Alex (talk) 20:21, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep.. This guy has enough accomplishments as a manager and team executive that he is worth saving. Spanneraol (talk) 22:53, 12 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • What accomplishments, exactly? From a WP:N, perspective, if you please. My Uncle Mortie was a great guy, and I always felt he made his mark in the vinyl flooring business, but I'm not puttin' him in WP, for crying out loud. --Hobbes Goodyear (talk) 00:35, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Professional sports is on a whole other level than the vinyl flooring business. That's a preposterous remark. He led his team to championships and was General Manager of more than one club. Spanneraol (talk) 00:46, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The key question is: does this guy pass BASE/N or GNG? At a glance, it seems like the answer is no. The minor league stuff doesn't pass BASE/N, so he must pass GNG. — NY-13021 (talk) 02:11, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 01:44, 13 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep - Playing in the pre-expansion, unaffiliated PCL of the 1940s, when it was the top baseball league over the western 2/3 of the country is adequate for me. At a minimum, I found some coverage in a book written 50 years after his last game [1], which wouldn't be enough to strictly satisfy GNG, but an indication that there would have been more when he was active. Rlendog (talk) 19:35, 14 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep per Rlendog - I have added some information to this page, including the person's full name and date of birth and his career beyond 1955, which includes time as a major league scout for the Mets. This may help those searching for sources on Herring. -Dewelar (talk) 19:48, 15 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Fails WP:SPORTS. His slight association with the major league doesn't do enough to infer notability. Trusilver 04:27, 19 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Rcsprinter (yak) 16:17, 19 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Very much of a description is given, this is approaching C class in legnth (just in legnth not in other aspects), it gives his entire history of notible achivements, I feel this person is notable. – Phoenix B 1of3 (talk) 19:10, 19 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep He is notable. Kinston eagle (talk) 23:31, 19 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
How. Alex (talk) 23:38, 19 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
It's AfDs like this that make me pessimistic about the project in general. This individual fails WP:GNG. We should never have to look one step beyond this fact. If something fails general notability, then it doesn't belong in the encyclopedia because we have no notable secondary sources for it. The second we start ignoring this very simple, very objective rule is the day that I can write an article about my cat and it's considered notable as long as I can get a majority number of sheep to say "it's notable". I certainly hope that the closing admin takes into account that despite the large number of keeps for this article, none of them give the slightest rationale for his notability other than some variation of "well, he just LOOKS notable to me" Trusilver 00:55, 21 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete He doesn't meet BASE/N, and I don't see him meeting GNG either. – Muboshgu (talk) 00:31, 21 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment No !vote for me, but if kept or no consensus, I hope the closing admin can note that editors indicated offline sources are likely to exist, and they should be added with no prejudice to renominate if such sources are not found.—Bagumba (talk) 02:13, 21 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    • Seconded If I come back to this page in the future and see it hasn't been sourced, it should come to AfD a second time. – Muboshgu (talk) 02:38, 21 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep "He ended his career with 187 minor league wins." Surely someone like that got more than just routine news coverage. [2] A lot of results to sort through. Dream Focus 10:30, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    Comment. Are you aware of how many games minor league teams play? In order to rack up 187 wins, the subject would simply have to play the game for three years, participating in all of those games and winning a stunningly impressive 42% of them. Trusilver 16:49, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Even in the majors, you cant win 187 games in three years as a pitcher... Starters pitch only one out of every five days so 30 starts in a season is a good number in the majors.. minor league teams play less games... your top guys might get 20 starts a season. Spanneraol (talk) 16:58, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, three years might might have been a little hyperbolic, but we aren't talking today, we are talking 70 years ago. 30 starts a season is a good number now, what about more than half a century ago? I honestly don't have a clue. But regardless, saying that winning "x" number of games makes him notable is a ridiculous statement. Baseball players have other criteria for determining success. The subject's ERA, for example, which started out pretty damned good but slid down to mediocre by the end of his career. Trusilver 17:10, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep based on the coverage found by Rlendog. I am inclined to agree there is likely more coverage out there that is contemporary to his career. -DJSasso (talk) 18:46, 26 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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