Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Al Rosas (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. ♠PMC♠ (talk) 19:02, 24 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Al Rosas[edit]

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NN farmer, fails the GNG, and to the degree they pertain, WP:BIO, WP:CORP and WP:CORPDEPTH. No significant coverage in reliable sources found (although he sure has his FB, Linkedin and social media advertising in) beyond press releases, casual mentions and namedrops. Notability tagged for over a decade. Ravenswing 02:15, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Food and drink-related deletion discussions. Ravenswing 02:15, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Business-related deletion discussions. Ravenswing 02:15, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Florida-related deletion discussions. Ravenswing 02:15, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom --Devokewater 10:01, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Delete The fact that this unsourced overly promotional article has stood for over 12 years shows that the claim that Wikipedia is not LinkedIn is not built upon current practice, but it is the implication of current policy so we need to act swiftly to remove this promotional article.John Pack Lambert (talk) 20:24, 27 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]
comment. Do not judge by present form-- actually a number of possibly usable references were removed by the nominator because of the " broken links" but a reference remains valid despite a broken link DGG ( talk ) 01:17, 2 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: To consider DGG's input
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Sandstein 16:20, 3 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete - non-notable per WP:BIO. Of the three refs that were on the article before the nominator removed them: the first ref was available on archive.org, here, which does cite the "Rosas Farm" (note, not Al Rosas himself) as "one of the top small businesses in the United States" - but this is only a passing mention of the person - imo, not enough for an article. The second ref was also on archive.org, here - this is a press release, so not good enough for proving notability of either the company (which is what the press release is about), nor the person. The third ref is already a link to archive.org - but none of the versions of that ref on archive.org actually appear to work, so I can't read it. I can't find any other reliable sources elsewhere for Al Rosas. In the future, there may possibly be enough sources for the company, but almost definitely not for Al Rosas himself. Seagull123 Φ 12:26, 6 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.

Sherman, Chris (2008-03-05). "The Grass Is Greener". Tampa Bay Times. Archived from the original on 2020-08-10. Retrieved 2020-08-10.
Daniel, Diane (2008-11-02). "Florida farm an organic gourmand's delight". The Boston Globe. Archived from the original on 2020-08-10. Retrieved 2020-08-10.
Allen, Rick (2014-07-30). "Chef Al brings the goods to Ocala proper". Star-Banner. Archived from the original on 2020-08-10. Retrieved 2020-08-10.
Allen, Rick (2009-12-03). "Organic, fresh, local, sustainable food - in a restaurant". Star-Banner. Archived from the original on 2020-08-10. Retrieved 2020-08-10.
Brooks, Jeff (2007-10-08). "Rosas Farms, Sysco Jacksonville ink deal". Star-Banner. Archived from the original on 2020-08-10. Retrieved 2020-08-10.
Macher, Alan (2006-07-05). "Organic Food". Star-Banner. Archived from the original on 2020-08-10. Retrieved 2020-08-10.
Allen, Rick (2008-01-10). "Rosas to be honored, and Rick to be eating". Star-Banner. Archived from the original on 2020-08-10. Retrieved 2020-08-10.

Sources with quotes

Sherman, Chris (2008-03-05). "The Grass Is Greener". Tampa Bay Times. Archived from the original on 2020-08-10. Retrieved 2020-08-10.
The article notes:
They belong to Al and Erin Rosas, champions of a small group of organic ranchers with a sense of evangelism and an unabashed taste for grass-fed meat as much as for artisan farming.
...
Al has branded himself the "Organic Chef" but he and Erin and other contemporary growers no longer see abstaining from fertilizers, pesticides and hormones as their most salable competitive edge.
...
The Rosases were surprised and disappointed about the state of food when they moved to Florida 20 years ago. Erin had grown up on a farm south of Lake Superior and had been around cattle, hay and race horses all her life. "Everything we ate was fresh," she says. Al, who had been transferred from Milwaukee, was a corporate chef, and he too was dismayed.
After a year in Tampa they bought the farm north of Ocala, raised hay for horses and have been selling grass-fed and artisan livestock and dairy to chefs in North and Central Florida ever since.
They are the perfect poster couple to make the pitch, photogenic 40-somethings who homeschool their children, love to barter, brag on the health benefits of a natural lifestyle and dub themselves the hippies on the hill. They are also city-slick enough to have been Arthur Murray dance instructors and martial arts competitors.
Al was named culinary entrepreneur of the year in the Cordon d'Or ceremony in St. Petersburg in January. Erin has been Stonyfield Yogurt's Woman of the Year and Rosas Farms has just been named a finalist in the national Small Business of the Year competition.
Daniel, Diane (2008-11-02). "Florida farm an organic gourmand's delight". The Boston Globe. Archived from the original on 2020-08-10. Retrieved 2020-08-10.
The article notes:
The most "boaring" day of my life? That's easy: the afternoon I spent at Rosas Farms feasting on a wild boar extravaganza created by chef Al Rosas. We were served larb, a Laotian/Thai dish made with ground meat, mint, cilantro, lime, and hot peppers; South American pupusas, or stuffed pancakes; and mofongo, a version from Colombia, Rosas's heritage, with fried pork and yucca instead of the usual plantains. We topped many dishes with his aji, a piquant red sauce found on tables across South America.
...
"Chef Al," 45, and Erin Rosas, 44, his wife and business partner, have owned this 100-acre spread, a former thoroughbred horse farm that had been in Erin's family, since 1989. Over the years the couple has turned the business into an all-organic livestock farm, as well as a tourist and corporate retreat.
The couple met in their home state of Wisconsin in 1985, when Erin took a job as a waitress where Al was the chef. "I gained 40 pounds the first year we dated," she said with a laugh. They left the farm in 1993, when Al worked as a traveling corporate food and beverage director.
Allen, Rick (2014-07-30). "Chef Al brings the goods to Ocala proper". Star-Banner. Archived from the original on 2020-08-10. Retrieved 2020-08-10.
The article notes:
Honored by the U.S. Chamber of Commerce as well as the Cordon D’Or in 2008 as Culinary Entrepreneur of the Year for innovations in marketing organic foods, he’s no stranger to a kitchen. He often held cooking classes in his own home, and was instrumental in opening Cuvee Wine & Bistro in late 2009, but he and his former wife, Erin, left following a falling out with Cuvee’s owners.
Allen, Rick (2009-12-03). "Organic, fresh, local, sustainable food - in a restaurant". Star-Banner. Archived from the original on 2020-08-10. Retrieved 2020-08-10.
The article notes:
So, what would compel a renowned chef to abandon his own kitchen, where he’s contentedly - and, I might add, profitably - doing “his own thing,” and plunge into the unstable and oft-scary restaurateuring world?
“Opening a restaurant was absolutely the last thing I wanted to do,” says Al Rosas, co-owner and executive chef of the soon-to-open Cuvee Wine & Bistro at 2237 S.W. 19th Ave. Road in Ocala. Passionately.
...
An internationally acclaimed mover and shaker in the organic foods world and world-class chef, Rosas calls his culinary concept “ingredient-driven. When it comes out of the ground, if it’s sustainable, environmentally harmless and locally grown or caught, it’ll be on the menu.“
Brooks, Jeff (2007-10-08). "Rosas Farms, Sysco Jacksonville ink deal". Star-Banner. Archived from the original on 2020-08-10. Retrieved 2020-08-10.
The article notes:
Started in 1990, Rosas Farms has developed a sterling reputation for its grass-fed, organically managed beef. Al and Erin Rosas are both certified organic farmers, the first in Florida. Al Rosas, known nationally as The Organic Chef, is a finalist for the Culinary Entrepreneur of the Year.
Macher, Alan (2006-07-05). "Organic Food". Star-Banner. Archived from the original on 2020-08-10. Retrieved 2020-08-10.
The article notes:
Al Rosas, 43, chuckles when he describes how he recently was mistaken for Emeril at a Williams-Sonoma store in Orlando. “One man asked me to help him pick out a chef’s knife,” he says. “A woman asked me how to boil eggs. Should she put the eggs in cold or boiling water to start?” Al once was a chef, but today, he and his wife, Erin, 42, own and operate Rosas Farms, an 85-acre organically managed cattle farm, where 60 cows are raised with what he calls “kindness and humanity.” Their home-schooled children, Michael, 14, and Lola, 10, help their parents raise the cattle and do other farm chores.
...
Al met Erin when he was working as a food and beverage director and she was a medical student. Today, Erin is a medical research specialist and advises corporations and insurance companies about medical issues, including recommending expert witnesses. Al is a nutritional consultant to grocers, food associations, manufacturers and farmers. Rosas Farms has been in business a little more than 10 years.
Allen, Rick (2008-01-10). "Rosas to be honored, and Rick to be eating". Star-Banner. Archived from the original on 2020-08-10. Retrieved 2020-08-10.
The article notes:
But Al Rosas is more than a farmer. Way more. Add descriptors such as "educator" and "chef." And don't forget "being honored Saturday with an International Culinary Academy Award."
Rosas, of Citra's Rosas Farms, is this year's recipient of the Culinary Entrepreneur Cordon d'Or (gold ribbon) - one of eight culinary accolades to be bestowed at the St. Petersburg gala.
...
Al is wrapping up his first cookbook, "The Organic Chef," featuring easy "pragmatic organic" recipes.

There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow Al Rosas to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

Cunard (talk) 10:34, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Notability (people)#Basic criteria says: "If the depth of coverage in any given source is not substantial, then multiple independent sources may be combined to demonstrate notability; trivial coverage of a subject by secondary sources may not be sufficient to establish notability."
After combining all the sources here, there is enough biographical material about Al Rosas to establish notability.
Cunard (talk) 10:34, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Pinging Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Al Rosas participants: Mfield (talk · contribs), Brossow (talk · contribs), South Bay (talk · contribs), Whpq (talk · contribs), Kimchi.sg (talk · contribs), and TheFeds (talk · contribs).
Cunard (talk) 10:34, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

I rewrote the article. The article previously had 0 sources. It now has seven sources.
Cunard (talk) 10:34, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Keep - My opinion from the first AFD remains the same. There is sufficient coverage in independent reliable sources to establish notability. -- Whpq (talk) 11:42, 10 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Barkeep49 (talk) 03:21, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Delete. per WP:SIRS, series of coverage in same paper or by the same journalist counts as one.. and in my opinion, the above source analysis shouldn't just be skimmed through. One of the source says "With some 600 restaurants in the area, that’s a heck of a lot of phone calls to make to find out which restaurants will be open Christmas day. But you can help! If your restaurant is planning to be open, or you know of one that will be, please let me know so I can share the news with everyone else. I’m planning to run the list of any places I know of that will be open in my Dec. 17 column in Go. So I need to know no later than Dec. 14 at noon (local time, not Timbuktu Standard). Contact me at". A coverage that is initiated by the business itself does not constitute a secondary source. I am thinking some of the source gathering and report generation is automated and does not consider the context. Graywalls (talk) 11:22, 12 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comment: I've already !voted (delete) above, but since then, the article has been updated with a few more references. In light of this (as my arguments from my earlier comment seem to have been made somewhat redundant now), I went through these refs with this tool to try and see how good they are for establishing notability. What I think following this is that all of these refs are questionable regarding "in-depth coverage": all of them seem to talk in equal parts about Al Rosas, and his wife, and their farm "Rosas Farm". Therefore, I don't believe they are in-depth enough about Al in particular (as this article, and deletion discussion, is about Al in particular). In all these refs, Al seems to be given the same amount and depth of coverage as his wife and their farm - therefore, they're all questionable in establishing notability for Al Rosas, and so my earlier comment that Al Rosas isn't notable per WP:BIO still stands even with the updated article; just with a slightly different reasoning. Seagull123 Φ 22:33, 14 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.