Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2023 Chicago memorial day weekend shootings

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. ✗plicit 01:50, 18 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

2023 Chicago memorial day weekend shootings[edit]

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Fails WP:GNG. A normal weekend in Chicago. Last year's Labor Day weekend had virtually the same number of casualties. https://abc7chicago.com/chicago-shooting-labor-day-weekend-shootings-violence-crime/12203033/ Lettler^{hello • contribs} 17:17, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Crime, Events, Firearms, and Illinois. Lettler^{hello • contribs} 17:17, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - this is a local story, not passing GNG or NEVENT. The shootings are multiple events on multiple days and other than them all occurring in Chicago that weekend don't have any relation to each other. WikiVirusC^(talk) 17:23, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete it appears to be a series of random shootings over the long weekend, nothing related or targeted. Sigh. More gun violence. Oaktree b (talk) 17:38, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. See the article's talk page. Suggested (in the discussion) to move the title to the one that reflects the spike of violence in Memorial Day Weekend shootings in Chicago. I've been working on that and I am about to enter that information to highlight both 2022 and 2023 are higher than the previous few years' Memorial weekend casualties. Give me a minute. Petra0922 (talk) 18:02, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Updated the article (per the talk page discussion)- already added a section to show the historical trend and the surge in violence during the public holiday. I am proposing to move the article to, "Memorial Day Weekend shooting in Chicago". That way the scope is not limited to 2023, and could be expanded as events occur. Petra0922 (talk) 18:57, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. Fails WP:EVENTCRIT, no WP:SUSTAINED WP:SIGCOV. I thought it was bad when people made articles for individual crimes simply because they were reported in the news. Now we're using this argument to make articles for individual crime statistics? Thebiguglyalien (talk) 18:20, 6 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The article is about crime surge during the Memorial Day Weekend holiday. Title can be moved. Petra0922 (talk) 19:47, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete These accounts just trying to push the "Chicago is the worst place in the world" narrative (and 'all crime needs an article here') just need to stop already. These are hardly unusual crime statistics at all for a holiday weekend. 5/16 sources being local (a few to partisan or usergen sources) is beyond unacceptable. To add to TBUA's policy cites...WP:BLPCRIME, and a heaping helping of WP:OR; we should not be drawing conclusions from statistics on our own. They need sources. Nate • (chatter) 01:29, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Almost forgot...WP:POINT. Nate • (chatter) 05:23, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Have you read the article? The statistics are from Chicago Sun Times and also from Bloomberg. Petra0922 (talk) 19:45, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Bloomberg isn't a local source, and we tend to take a dim view of Fox News current day as a source, along with the Washington Examiner. Nate • (chatter) 22:12, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete fails WP:GNG. The person who loves reading (talk) 02:13, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Keep, or at least Merge with Crime in Chicago. Coverage about shootings trends over Memorial Day weekends commences before this 2023 event occurred. When the mayor's office and police start predicting shootings like weather forecasting, and start issuing safety warnings in advance, something else is happening in the public safety environment that I think Wikipedia should take note of. Rather than just react to crime, police in Chicago appear to be using historic statistics to predict when crime is going to occur and issue public safety warnings in anticipation of the crime occurring, or are taking other steps to prevent this crime happening. WP:SUSTAINED notes that Wikipedia is a lagging indicator of notability and doesn't seem to recognize anticipatory coverage of an event that is yet to happen might be notable, once seen in the light of post-event coverage that the predictions were accurate. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 09:33, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Why on this year in particular, and why should we even create a consensus for this every single year for every single holiday weekend in one city? A large city has much more crime than say, your Raytown, Missouri or Minot, North Dakota, especially on a holiday weekend. I hate to use this for crime, but for a large city, these stats are WP:RUNOFTHEMILL and downright expected, and the only reason it's being written about more is there are non-local sources as mentioned above using trying to define their own narrative of Chicago, and the CPD itself has one to push (which is why neutral sources should be used over unquestioned police statistics from their or FoP's PR releases). We're as far from a Detroit Devil's Night or 1989 Miami riot situation where call-out is appropriate as possible. Nate • (chatter) 01:37, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Reply: I think you misunderstand the point I am trying to make. While having a healthy suspicion of the credibility of crime statistics is a good thing, the Chicago Police and Mayor's Office appear to believe they are sufficiently credible to issue public safety warnings in advance of this Memorial Day holiday weekend, and also employ a number of people, who are not Police officers, tasked with preventing crime. While the statistics might be run-of-the-mill, the policing approach is not. Perhaps the City of Chicago is applying some form of evidence-based policing in an attempt to prevent crime. Something different is happening here, compared to your run-of-the-mill police department. - Cameron Dewe (talk) 10:09, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz ^{Read! Talk!} 23:09, 13 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom and WP:LASTING. Another typical day in gun-crazy America. There are shootings every day of the week there. Clarityfiend (talk) 10:03, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete: per WP:LASTING and WP:NOTNEWS/WP:NOTNP. CastJared (talk) 10:40, 14 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete This does not constitute a notable event that will be remembered over time. Go4thProsper (talk) 02:59, 15 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Delete. For the record, it should be noted here that the factors influencing a keep versus delete at AfD are arbitrary, and to a decent extent unrelated to the importance of the topic, and to a large extent stupid. That is to say, Killing of JonBenét Ramsey is about a hundred thousand bytes, yet the US government says that in 1996 there were around a thousand homicide victims below the age of 12. So what the hell about the other 999 of them? The answer is that -- obviously the friends and family of the victims cared a whole lot about their children being murdered -- but nobody who ran a tabloid or a local news station cared, and because our society is a deranged hell carnival, being covered by tabloids and local news (and therefore attracting the attention of more people, and therefore being run above the fold in national papers and news networks) is what grants something notability. Here, we do not have this, so there is not really a sufficient basis for us to write an article about it. We live in a society: delete. jp×g 22:17, 17 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.