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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was keep. J04n(talk page) 21:00, 31 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yaakov Rokach

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Yaakov Rokach (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log · Stats)
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Badly translated and unsourced, with apparently no sources available (and no extra content/sources on the Hebrew Wikipedia where this came from). No value to this as it currently stands Jac16888 Talk 21:59, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Africa-related deletion discussions. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 22:50, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Authors-related deletion discussions. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 22:50, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Note: This debate has been included in the list of Judaism-related deletion discussions. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 22:50, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep this article clearly qualifies as WP:N & WP:BIO as even user הסרפד admits! Poor standards of presentation are not grounds for deletion. This rabbi published at least sixteen original works according to Yaakov Rokach#His Books, an image of the front page of one of them, see Yaakov Rokach#Shaari Tefillah, actually even appears twice in the article, this is a true example and sample of a primary source! So on the contrary, what should be done is such a case is that templates such as {{Cleanup}} & {{MOS}} could be added just as the {{Multiple issues}} was helpfully added, and a request could be put in at WP:TALKJUDAISM for WP:EXPERT help in this regard, but there is no point in cutting off the nose to spite the face. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 23:53, 19 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • Comment The poor translation alone is not grounds for deletion (as we have access the original Hebrew text and a better translator could produce a better translation), but the poor sourcing is grounds for deletion. We have only one source (the obscure Encyclopedia Aarazi Halebnon) whose reliability must be assessed. Unfortunately, the he.wiki version of this article contains no better sourcing, so we really have nothing else to go on. Replying directly to @IZAK: I would point out the fact that the use of primary sources is actually discouraged at Wikipedia. The presence of the primary source is no boon to this article. I withhold opinion as to whether this article should be kept or deleted until members of WP:WikiProject Judaism can weigh in -- they'll certainly know better about the reliability of the source and the significance of this figure in Jewish history. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 00:24, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • WikiDan61: If someone is willing to retranslate the article, let them do so, but the current version is neither acceptable as it is, nor is of any use to the re-translator. Hence, WP:TNT.
      • Encyclopedia Aarazi Halebnon is only obscure if you search for it by this dreadful machine transliteration. The correct title is אנציקלופדיה ארזי הלבנון‎ (Encyclopedia Arze ha-Levanon, OCLC 70779527), by one Shimon Vanunu. Arze ha-Levanon, though, is not considered a reliable tertiary source. (Searching its Hebrew name brings up several online discussions on the subject.)
      The second source cited is also poorly transliterated: it should read שלחן לחם הפנים‎ (Shulḥan Leḥem ha-Panim, OCLC 24066401), editor's introduction. (The editor is Rabbi Levi Nahum, a prominent rabbi of the Libyan Jewish community in Israel.) This would seem to be an excellent reference, though I have not read it, as it is cited in several sources (including Vanunu: see Arze ha-Levanon Vol. 2 on Google Books) as the primary biography of Rabbi Yaakov Rakah [or Raqah etc., but not Rokach].
      Another good source would be his entry in יהדות לוב‎ (Yahadut Luv "Lybian Jewry", OCLC 319774610).
      הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 01:05, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
      • Another detailed article on Rabbi Yaakov Rakah can be found in the prominent rabbinical journal מקבציאל‎ (Meḳabtsiʼel, OCLC 11664518, published by Yeshivat Hevrat Ahavat Shalom), Issue 39 (2013), pp. 129–35.
      Unfortunately, I do not have full access to any of the sources listed above. הסרפד (call me Hasirpad) 01:33, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete or move to draft space per WP:ATD-I. Current stage, it's not suitable quality, by a long shot, for an English encyclopedia. Seems on shaky Notability grounds, as presented. HG | Talk 01:53, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • NOTE: Please see the current updated version of the article that has now been WP:WIKIFY'ed and the language basically fixed, as well as now indicating that it is a {{rabbi-stub}} and as such deserves a WP:CHANCE as well as WP:DONOTDEMOLISH. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 09:55, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep Based on sources identified by Hasirpad and the cleanup provided by IZAK, I'd have to say that this person does appear to be a notable person within the body of Jewish history meriting an article. WikiDan61ChatMe!ReadMe!! 12:33, 20 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep I agree with all the reasons of Hasirpad. he is indeed notable. This needs an expert but any book on the history of Libyan Jewry has Rabbi Yaakov Raqah (or Rakah). See Harvey Goldberg, Jewish Life in Muslim Libya, there are also references in academic articles in Hebrew. --Jayrav (talk) 18:56, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Move to Draft space and userify, it's clearly not ready for article space, the cited letter is clearly WP:OR, while the other sources are so vaguely described they are of little use. It seems he created a library, wrote some books (of unknown importance) and knew some better-known rabbis, all of which doesn't sound like a convincing case for notability at the moment. Sionk (talk) 21:38, 21 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Strong keep. I added a lot of references from Hebrew sources. Yoninah (talk) 01:28, 22 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Natg 19 (talk) 19:42, 27 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@הסרפד: Thank you. NOTE TO CLOSING ADMIN: Please advise User העורך היהודי (talk · contribs) not to create articles that are a horrible mess in English since he has created articles and categories that are creating problems with their horrible translations and terrible English. He needs to get some sort of WP:MENTORING going with any editor/s willing to help him. But he cannot run around WP causing this type of havoc and then leaving others top clean up after him and spending time defending his work in this sort of way. Thank you, IZAK (talk) 08:51, 28 January 2015 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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