Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of TVB series (1977)

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus‎. which does not preclude discussion of a merger into a broader group, such as the 1970s. The keep !votes aren't super solid, but no one but the nom is arguing for deletion Star Mississippi 12:08, 22 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

List of TVB series (1977)[edit]

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List of TVB series (1977) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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Fails NLIST. Found no sources showing this subject (1977 TVB series) has been discussed as a group by independent reliable sources.  // Timothy :: talk  01:09, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comment: I think the list can be kept for a navigational purpose, but at the current state it's way too short. Seeing the 1978 & 1979 lists aren't that long, is there a possibility of merging the three lists together to form something like List of TVB series (1970s)? S5A-0043Talk 05:10, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I agree with keeping this list for navigational purposes. I've explained below why this list meets Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lists#Purposes of lists. According to the Chinese Wikipedia article zh:無綫電視劇集列表 (1970年代)#1977年, there were 24 TVB series in 1977. This page can be expanded to be as detailed as List of TVB dramas in 2023. The Chinese Wikipedia article is sourced to the TVB web page "1975-1979 (115)", which is now a dead link. Further expanding this list may require access to offline sources. Combining the smaller lists is a possible editorial option for now though once expanded to have all 24 1977 TVB dramas, there should be enough content to support a standalone 1977 list article. Cunard (talk) 09:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      "I agree with keeping this list for navigational purposes." shows this is Keep rationale is flat out nonsense. It clearly does not have a navigation purpose.  // Timothy :: talk  17:10, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep per the significant coverage in multiple independent reliable sources.

    The subject passes Wikipedia:Notability#Stand-alone lists, which says, "One accepted reason why a list topic is considered notable is if it has been discussed as a group or set by independent reliable sources, per the above guidelines; notable list topics are appropriate for a stand-alone list." I will show below that "TVB series" has been treated as "a group or set by independent reliable sources".

    Summary of sources

    TVB series have been covered in several academic sources and numerous media sources. The academic sources discuss the shows in the context of TVB's history. The media sources discuss the shows in the context of the highest rated, the lowest rated, the "most classic", and the "best".

    Sources

    1. Cheuk, Pak-Tong (Fall 1999). "The Beginning of the Hong Kong New Wave: The Interactive Relationship Between Television and the Film Industry". Post Script. Vol. 19, no. 1. pp. 10–27. ISSN 0277-9897. ProQuest 2141429.

      The article notes: "In the early years, HK-TVB's Jade channel (the Chinese language service) broadcast only three locally-produced programs. Much of the remaining airtime was filled by foreign series, such as Doctor Kildare, I Spy, The Lucy Show, and Bonanza (Hong Kong Television Weekly 17-18). The station also showed early Mandarin and Cantonese pictures, such as The Revenge, Truth and False Husband (Chao-zhou-dialect pictures), Cool Chau Mei, andWonderful Princess (Hong Kong Television Weekly 14). In this, HK-TVB's initial programming strategy was no different from that of Rediffusion Cable. In 1968, however, HK-TVB produced its first drama series, A Dream Is a Dream, shown in 15-minute segments once every week."

      The article notes: "Gradually, more locally produced series gained popularity. Here is the list of the HK-TVB's top ten programs in November 1970: (1) Enjoy Yourself Tonight; (2) It Takes a Thief; (3) Tarzan; (4) Kao's Club; (5) Japanese Story; (6) Sharp's Club; (7) Night of Sharp; (8) Viceroy's On Life; (9) News and Weather Report; (10) The Fugitive. Of this list, half were imports (numbers 2, 3, 5, 7, and 10). On the other hand, the list also shows that locally produced series increasingly were favored by local audiences."

      The article notes: "In 1973, HK-TVB's new head of programming, Leong Suk-yi, produced the comedy series Seventy-Three, made up of 30-minute episodes shown once every week (30 episodes in all). Audiences welcomed the series for its refreshing satirical approach to social problems. It even garnered more viewers than Enjoy Yourself Tonight and became the territory's top rated program. The breakthrough achieved by Seventy-Three paved the way for series like Crossroad and CID (both 1976), Wonderfun (1977) and Seven Women; all were dramatic anthology series shot on film."

      The article notes: "In July 1978, the prime time program schedules of HK-TVB and CTV were as follows:"

      The article notes: "The dramatic mini-series that became most popular was HK-TVB's 1976 production Hotel. ... HK-TVB followed this success with the 1977 production A House is Not a Home."

    2. Siu, Chiu Shun Patrick (2022-11-11). The rise and fall of popular variety programs – A Hong Kong Case Study (PDF) (PhD thesis). Hong Kong Baptist University. Archived from the original (PDF) on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The thesis notes: "Background information of the selected five cases". The thesis discusses five TVB shows: "Program for Case Study 1 - Enjoy Yourself Tonight", "Program for Case Study 2 - Cantopop at 50", "Program for Case Study 3 - Movie Buff Championship", "Program for Case Study 4 - Am I Healthy?", and "Program for Case Study 5 - Be My Guest".

    3. Chu, Yiu-Wai (2020-06-05). "Hong Kong (in China) studies: Hong Kong popular culture as example". Global Media and China. 5 (2). doi:10.1177/2059436420917564.

      The article notes: "For example, Kok-Leung Kuk, one of the executive directors of TVB martial arts classics including The Legend of the Condor Heroes《射鵰英雄傳》(1983), The Return of the Condor Heroes《神鵰俠侶》(1983) and The Duke of Mount Deer《鹿鼎記》(1984), co-directed a Mainland version"

      The article notes: "TVB started collaborating with Youku in 2013, airing its dramas on China’s leading online video and streaming service platforms. One such drama, Line Walker 《使徒行者》, recorded a total of 2.4 billion views in 2014. These drama serials provided higher production budgets to TVB, supposedly raising the production quality. Legal Mavericks 《踩過界》 (or 《盲俠大律師》 in the Mainland), the first co-produced title with iQiyi that premiered in June 2017, successfully accumulated total streaming views of over 500 million in Mainland China. Another co-production, Line Walker: The Prelude 《使徒行者2》, a crime-thriller drama serial, also reached remarkable total streaming views of over 2 billion on Tencent’s platform in Mainland China."

      The article notes: "Whether history will repeat itself or not is too early to tell, but, for example, in 2018, three of the five TVB serial dramas that recorded the lowest viewership ratings were co-productions: Another Era 《再創世紀》, Infernal Affairs 《無間道》, and The Great Adventurer Wesley 《冒險王衛斯理》 (“The Five TVB Dramas With Lowest Viewership Ratings,” 2019)."

    4. Wong, Yan-wah 黃欣華 (2019-01-11). "TVB「2018最低收視五部劇集」出爐　高成本劇集收視未必似如期" [TVB's "Five Lowest-Rated Drama Series of 2018" is released. The ratings of high-cost dramas may not be as expected] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article lists the TVB series The Great Adventurer Wesley, Succession War, Infernal Affairs, Another Era, and Stealing Seconds.

    5. Lo, Alex (2011-01-28). "A golden age when TVB dictated popular culture". South China Morning Post. Archived from the original on 2021-04-28. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article notes: "Just as that period of time is considered the golden age of Hong Kong when its economy took off, it was arguably the best time for quality programmes at TVB. Dragon, Tiger and Leopard was an innovative crime drama series ... Another drama series, The Northern Stars, for a time, made being a social worker almost hip. Then came Gan Kwok-leung, arguably the best scriptwriter TVB ever had. He penned The Wrong Couples and No Biz Like Showbiz which restored the art of the dramatic dialogue that is hard to imagine for a TVB programme today."

    6. Koh, Jiamun (2022-05-25). "The 10 TVB Shows With The Highest Ratings In The Past 12 Years". 8 Days. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article lists Forensic Heroes S4, Can't Buy Me Love, Triumph In The Skies 2, No Regrets, Forensic Heroes S3, Airport Strikers, Inbound Troubles, The Mysteries of Love, Story of Yanxi Palace, and Witness Insecurity.

    7. Wong, Chi-hang 黃梓恒 (2023-09-01). "TVB今年13套劇集收視排行榜　第一位拋離成條街注定成大贏家？" [TVB's 13 TV drama ratings rankings this year: No. 1 is destined to be the big winner?] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article discusses 13 TVB series.

    8. Lam, Seon-ging 林迅景 (2023-01-02). "盤點2022年15套TVB深宵劇　三代歌影視男神全部都搵到！" [Taking stock of 15 TVB late-night dramas in 2022, all three generations of singing, film and television male stars are available!] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article discusses 15 TVB series.

    9. Wong, Chi-hang 黃梓恒 (2022-01-21). "青春不要臉｜80年代最經典十部TVB劇集　絕對係香港輝煌的一頁" [Freedom Memories｜The ten most classic TVB dramas of the 1980s, definitely a glorious page in Hong Kong] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article discusses 10 TVB series.

    10. Wong, Chi-hang 黃梓恒 (2022-05-23). "TVB近年劇集最高收視十大排行榜　佘詩曼絕對係收視福星" [Top 10 TVB drama series with the highest ratings in recent years Charmaine Sheh is definitely a lucky star in the ratings] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article discusses 10 TVB series.

    11. Wong, Chi-hang 黃梓恒 (2022-05-20). "TVB歷史最低收視十套劇集排行榜　今年未完但已經有四套入圍" [Ranking of the top ten TVB dramas with the lowest ratings in TVB history. This year has not been completed but four dramas have already been shortlisted.] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article discusses 10 TVB series.

    12. Lam, Seon-ging 林迅景 (2022-03-26). "網民票選TVB十大冷門劇　蒼海遺珠勁多一線演員精彩過新劇" [Netizens voted TVB's top ten unpopular dramas. The Pearl of the Blue Sea has many A-list actors and actresses in the new drama.] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article discusses 10 TVB series.

    13. Wong, Chi-hang 黃梓恒 (2021-05-21). "娛樂即時娛樂重溫20年前TVB劇集如何鼎盛　有六部劇集收視衝過40點！" [Entertainment Instant Entertainment revisits the heyday of TVB dramas 20 years ago. Six dramas have ratings exceeding 40 points!] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article discusses several TVB series.

    14. Wong, Chi-hang 黃梓恒 (2022-11-10). "網民嚴選今年TVB最好睇十套劇集《美麗戰場》愈鬧愈鍾意？" [Netizens carefully selected the ten best TVB dramas to watch this year. The more popular "The Beauty of War" is, the more you like it?] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article discusses 10 TVB series.

    15. Wong, Chi-hang 黃梓恒 (2017-10-29). "【台慶50周年】回顧TVB紮根香港50年　細數十大最出色「神劇」" [[Station's 50th Anniversary] Looking back at TVB's 50 years of roots in Hong Kong and breaking down the top ten most outstanding "divine dramas"] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article discusses 10 TVB series.

    16. Wong, Chi-hang 黃梓恒 (2020-10-05). "TVB近十年最高收視10套劇集　最高一套基本上唔會再打破" [TVB's 10 highest-rated drama series in the past ten years, the highest-rated series will basically never break again] (in Chinese). HK01. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article discusses 10 TVB series.

    17. "【TVB古裝劇】網民嚴選30大TVB古裝劇　《金枝慾孽》+《大冬瓜》同上榜" [[TVB Costume Drama] Netizens carefully selected the top 30 TVB costume dramas. "War and Beauty" + "The Winter Melon Tale" are also on the list.]. Hong Kong Economic Times (in Chinese). 2022-05-10. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article discusses 30 TVB series.

    18. "TVB經典影劇深夜接力重播　觀眾投票選最想睇經典劇集" [TVB late-night relay reruns of classic movies and dramas, viewers vote for the classic dramas they most want to watch]. Hong Kong Economic Times (in Chinese). 2022-10-14. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article discusses several TVB series.

    19. "【萬千星2020】盤點TVB於2020年五大最高收視劇集 　《法證IV》奪冠《使徒3》未入五大" [[TVB Anniversary Awards 2020] Taking stock of TVB's top five most-watched dramas in 2020. "Forensic Heroes IV" won the championship and "Line Walker: Bull Fight" did not enter the top five.]. Hong Kong Economic Times (in Chinese). 2021-01-01. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article discusses five TVB series.

    20. Lo, Chi-wang 羅志宏 (2023-12-29). "細數2023年TVB劇集最高平均收視排行榜！僅得呢三部重頭劇 ..." [Break down the ranking of the highest average ratings of TVB dramas in 2023! Only three major dramas scored more than 20 points]. U Lifestyle [zh] (in Chinese). Hong Kong Economic Times. Archived from the original on 2024-01-27. Retrieved 2024-01-27.

      The article discusses eight TVB series.



    WP:NOTTVGUIDE

    WP:NOTTVGUIDE says:

    Electronic program guides. An article on a broadcaster should not list upcoming events, current promotions, current schedules, format clocks, etc., although mention of major events, promotions or historically significant program lists and schedules may be acceptable."

    These articles do not contain "upcoming events, current promotions, current schedules, format clocks". They contain "historically significant program lists and schedules" as shown through the coverage in academic and media sources.



    "Simple listings"

    WP:NOTDIRECTORY says:

    Simple listings without contextual information showing encyclopedic merit. Listings such as the white or yellow pages should not be replicated. See WP:LISTCRITERIA for more information.

    WP:LISTCRITERIA says: "Selection criteria (also known as inclusion criteria or membership criteria) should be unambiguous, objective, and supported by reliable sources."

    The membership criteria of these lists is "unambiguous" and "objective" as membership is based on which TVB dramas were broadcast. The membership criteria is "supported by reliable sources" because TVB series have been discussed in academic and media sources.

    WP:LISTCRITERIA further says, "As Wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a directory, repository of links, or means of promotion, and should not contain indiscriminate lists, only certain types of lists should be exhaustive. Criteria for inclusion should factor in encyclopedic and topical relevance, not just verifiable existence."

    A topic that has been covered by academic and media sources meets the "encyclopedic and topical relevance" requirement.



    The list fulfills informational and navigation purposes.

    Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists#Notability, which says: Lists that fulfill recognized informational, navigation, or development purposes often are kept regardless of any demonstrated notability.

    1. It meets Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lists#Information, which says, The list may be a valuable information source. This is particularly the case for a structured list. Examples would include lists organized chronologically, grouped by theme, or annotated lists.

      This structured list is a chronological ordering of all the TVB dramas that have been released in 1977. It is an annotated list that has the drama's airing dates, title, number of episodes, main cast, theme song(s), genre, and notes.

    2. It meets Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lists#Navigation, which says, Lists which contain internally linked terms (i.e., wikilinks) serve, in aggregate, as natural tables of contents and indexes of Wikipedia. This is an index of all the TVB dramas that have been released in 1977.

      TVB produces Cantonese-language dramas. Most English Wikipedia editors do not speak Cantonese. This is why Category:TVB dramas has only 578 articles on television series, while the Chinese Wikipedia's version of the category, zh:Category:無綫電視劇集, has 3,049 articles. Wikipedia:Systemic bias discusses this, noting that As a result of systemic bias, Wikipedia underrepresents the perspectives of people in the Global South, which includes Hong Kong. Although these articles do not exist on the English Wikipedia, they exist on the Chinese Wikipedia. Taking the 2023 list as an example (zh:翡翠台電視劇集列表 (2023年)), there are detailed, well-sourced articles on 2023 TVB dramas such as zh:新四十二章 and zh:新聞女王. There are not corresponding English Wikipedia articles because there are not enough English Wikipedia editors with the interest and Chinese-language skills to create them.



    Multi-page list articles

    Wikipedia:Stand-alone lists#Titles links to Wikipedia:Naming conventions (lists)#Long (split) list naming recommendations, which discusses the conventions for "splitting a long list into multiple sub-articles". The long list here is "List of TVB series", while the sub-articles are "List of TVB dramas in 2022", "List of TVB dramas in 2023", etc.

    The guideline gives the example, "For example, TV show season lists are named in the form "Show title (season 1)", although the present guideline would have preferred "Show title: season 1" (the use of colons in the titles of works to indicate a subtitle, as in Star Trek: The Next Generation, is a likely reason for this variance)."

    The split by year is similar here. The split by year is a valid spinout to ensure the main list does not get too long. There is no need for the split child lists to individually meet Wikipedia:Notability#Stand-alone lists since the long parent list meets the notability guideline.



    General notability guideline

    There is sufficient coverage in reliable sources to allow the subject to pass Wikipedia:Notability#General notability guideline, which requires "significant coverage in reliable sources that are independent of the subject".

    Cunard (talk) 09:47, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • KeepI vote no on this page of nomination with article of deletion and here is the link about TVB Series 1977 of mytvsuper: https://www.mytvsuper.com/en/programme/greatvendettathe0002_128332/THE-GREAT-VENDETTA/ https://www.mytvsuper.com/en/programme/ahouseisnotahome_103303/A-House-Is-Not-A-Home/. Basically, don't know why the certain person of Timothy are trying to report nomination as no reason https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=List_of_TVB_series_(1977)&diff=prev&oldid=1222806959 who claims that "Fails NLIST! Found no sources showing this subject (1977 TVB series) has been discussed as a group by independent reliable sources." If I were TimothyBlue, I wouldn't satisfied and including not participated with nomination in this AFD for report to touch. Without report nomination for this AfD and that shouldn't happen in first place. I totally agree with Cunard to keep on active at all time that's because it was very important about TVB history. Cool90630 (talk).
  • Note to closer: The above is nonsense. This is a list with one non-notable entry and no sources for NLIST. The above refs are just spam, none of them discuss the subject - 1977 - as a group, and how that the BEFORE for this list was correct.  // Timothy :: talk  16:48, 12 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    • I restored the list entry of The Great Vendetta [zh] and added sources. The list now has two entries. I wrote above that the list can be expanded to 24 entries since there were 24 TVB dramas in 1977. I wrote above that a child list split by year from a long parent list does not need to itself meet the notability guideline when the parent list meets the notability guideline. Cunard (talk) 09:34, 13 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      I totally agree with more source about TVB Series 1977 article of the above is make more sense. "The above is nonsense shows this is keep rationale is flat out nonsense. It clearly does not have a navigation purpose" so it seems off-topic here that's how TB user didn't seem understand what the TVB Drama 1977 is about so then trying to report nomination with article of deletion. If TB did not satisfied without approved as fails NLIST policy found no sources showing this subject (1977 TVB series) has been discussed as a group by specific independent reliable sources then TB should have put the article of creation or ask Cunard talk page instead so that's way to understand for adding more reference sources on the TVB Series articles. I am not trying to inconsiderate here by the way. Cool90630 (talk) 02:02, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • CommentI think that the TVB series 1977 should kept as history and search TVBanywhere, Drama name episode by TVB or mytvsuper online details. (talk) 02:10, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting, while of course, policy-based arguments are important, I'd like to see an assessment of new sources brought to this discussion. Additionally, I'll add that I don't see much support here or in the previous AFD for deletion. But keep any further comments focused on sources and policy and not on contributors or general statements about the subject matter. This is an AFD, not an article or user talk page.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 02:03, 15 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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