Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1905 Southwest Texas State Bobcats football team

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Delete seasons 1905, 1906 and 1907, keep seasons 1908, 1911 and 1917. Information verifying the existence of the team and a history of games played resulted in keeping the 1908, 1911 and 1917 seasons, the others were deleted for lacking such evidence. Xymmax ^{So let it be written} _{So let it be done} 04:00, 13 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

1905 Southwest Texas State Bobcats football team

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Per reason the following are also nominated

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Per IRC help request, team did not play during 1905-1908, 1911 and 1917. RhinosF1^(chat)_{(status)(contribs)} 22:18, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: IRC user who requested deletion has said they will present evidence in a few days time. Please do not close this if no evidence has been presented until after 7 days. Thanks, RhinosF1^(chat)_{(status)(contribs)} 22:42, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of American football-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:54, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Sports-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:54, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This discussion has been included in the list of Texas-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU^(T) 22:54, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Note. Texas State (new name of the school) is a Division I FBS program, so season articles are appropriate. The issue here is whether these particular seasons even existed. According to the "History" section of the Texas State football media guide (page 127 here), no scores were reported for the seasons that are the subject of this AfD. If the program disbanded and no games were played, I would be inclined to support deletion of these articles. Cbl62 (talk) 23:09, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

On the other hand, the media guide also says no scores reported for 1912, but other sources show that multiple games were played. Compare 1912 Southwest Texas State Bobcats football team. Cbl62 (talk) 23:14, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Cbl62, That is the issue. Establishing whether they exisits during that time. Feel free to nominate other years that didn't exist for the team. There seems to be some confusion as some of those articles list games and that source shows they didn't exist. RhinosF1^(chat)_{(status)(contribs)} 23:15, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Unfortunately, there are several teams of importance where it's "good luck" for finding their own source for a complete season instead of inferring the games from other teams playing them. Central (pre 1901) and Nashville come to mind. Cake (talk) 23:38, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Cbl62, the media guide you linked appears to be several years old, and does not reflect the school's current recording of its history. Here (p. 154) you can see Texas State's most recent media guide, and there are many more games recorded for the period 1908-1918. It does still note that there were no games recorded for 1905-07 and '09, but there are two games recorded for 1908, four games recorded for 1911, and eight games recorded for 1917. There are also more games listed in years that are not listed here for deletion, and appear to already be incorporated into those articles despite listing the old source. Ostealthy (talk) 23:52, 5 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Good catch, Ostealthy. The updated guide provides scores for games played in 1908, 1911, and 1917. So those years ought not be deleted. 1906 and 1907 remain in doubt. Cbl62 (talk) 00:28, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Keep 1908, 1911, and 1917. Texas State is a Division I FBS program, and its historical seasons are notable. The Texas State Football Media Guide confirms that there were teams in these years. I have added citations to the media guide as well as newspaper articles reporting on the games to these three articles. The articles need further improvement and development but that is not a reason for deletion. Cbl62 (talk) 01:27, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep 1908, 1911, and 1917 per Cbl62. 1905, 1906, 1907 look like they can be deleted. Jweiss11 (talk) 03:23, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep 1908, 1911, and 1917 per Cbl62. 1905-07 has a precedent for keeping here Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/1918 Montana Grizzlies football team.UCO2009bluejay (talk) 15:42, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep 1908, 1911, and 1917 per Cbl62. I am the user that requested the deletion of 1905-1908, 1911, and 1917. After looking through three references with the following links:

1. https://s3.amazonaws.com/sidearm.sites/txstate.sidearmsports.com/documents/2018/8/23/2018_Texas_State_Football_Media_Guide.pdf 2. http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/txst/sports/m-footbl/auto_pdf/109-FBMGHistory.pdf 3. The 1905-1908, 1911, and 1917 Texas State Normal School pedagogues, I have concluded that there is absolutely no evidence of teams for 1905 and 1907. So I would agree 1908, 1911, and 1917 should be kept with the keeping of 1906 as well. I already added the roster from 1906 to that page. I do think 1905 and 1907 should be deleted though and I fixed those pages up as well as I could. Krhazymonkey83 20:12, 6 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Krhazymonkey83 is the nominator from IRC RhinosF1^(chat)_{(status)(contribs)} 06:31, 7 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep 1908, 1911, and 1917 because they are verified to have been played and information has been found to pass WP:GNG. Delete 1905 and 1907 as no evidence seems to exist to pass WP:GNG. If data/sources are uncovered in the future, there should be no prejudice to re-create at that time. I'd like to point out that it may be possible for a season that is "not played" to be notable if it were to garner enough press in reliable sources for not being played (similar to the 1940 Summer Olympics)) but that doesn't seem to be the case here.--Paul McDonald (talk) 14:10, 7 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep 1908, 1911, and 1917, per Cbl62. I am neutral on the other three, though I would note that this would point towards redirection as a likely option for the other three articles. Ejgreen77 (talk) 04:00, 8 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Keep 1908, 1911, and 1917, Cbl62 and Paul McDonald have made terrific points on this. Neutral for 1907 as I don't have much of a stance on that article. As for the rest, I say delete 1905 and 1906. No information, and it is a mile (or meter if you like the metric system) away from WP:GNG. James-the-Charizard (talk) 02:08, 12 March 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.