User talk:Carlinal

Sex Pistols

Hi Carlinal. I totally agree with your view here on classic band's & albums. With that in mind, any interesting in helping out at the Sex Pistols FAR - main issue is that the wording is too fan-ish and excitable. Ceoil (talk) 17:24, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the mention, Ceoil. I'm still a bit of a novice on this website but I'll see what I can do. Carlinal (talk) 17:38, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

I ask as you seem to be thoughtful and know what you are doing. Ceoil (talk) 17:52, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Codewriter1

Hey @Carlinal, when I first started doing this, I thought it would be fun to make or add something on the page I thought would kinda make sense after messing around with the inspect element on different pages for like a year, and tried to make that one page I did look as professionally like any other page. When all of them were changed and I got a message from Binksternet about it, I just felt embarrassed and decided to stop for a while, I wasn't trying to intentionally poorly edit any of the page and then just quit out of anger because of the change, I understood why and just decided to just put it on hold for a while. Codewriter1 (talk) 01:01, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Ah, I get you. Assuming you've had this much interest in Wikipedia for a while, these first batch of edits could've been worse, but at least you have a reasonable viewpoint. On Wikipedia, however, the genre thing is usually generalized and concise, per standards. If you're interested in editing again, try to do what I've done when I'm unsure if my edits are acceptable, by referring to other articles. Have a good break! Carlinal (talk) 03:16, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

Hi, I'm back, and I did an edit for "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Penny Lane" by adding Avant-pop in the genre using source material this time that says how the beatles established themselves as "most avant-garde [pop] composers". Codewriter1 (talk) 16:46, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

I'll use this as an opportunity to explain the differences between those edits you mentioned and the edit you did on SMiLE. In order for an album to have a sourced genre included, the specific genre must be explicitly mentioned when referred to in direct connection with the particular album. There are two ways this can be done; either the album is explicitly referred to as of a certain genre or phrase in a sentence or paragraph, or the album is listed in a source titled "50 Cool [Genre] Albums You Should Give a Listen" or something.

Your edits linking both "Strawberry Fields Forever" and "Penny Lane" as both avant-pop are interesting, although they do not qualify. While the page you sourced from Simonelli's book does refer to the Beatles as "the most avant-garde composers of the postwar era" and the two songs and Sgt. Pepper are undoubtedly pop music, "avant-pop" is not mentioned anywhere in the book nor referred to in connection to the songs. On the other hand, you made a stronger case of SMiLE being both a musique concrète album and an Americana album. The former and its sources have the phrase mentioned enough in relation to the album to the point where the album can indeed be shown as a major demonstration of said genre. In the latter case, although it's been disputed, the mentions of Americana are prominent enough in the body of the article and how they influenced the album's music. SMiLE is perhaps a looser case of an Americana album, but it's strong enough to remain.

While the exotica part subsequently got reasonably reverted for being too loose or unfounded of a connection, your current SMiLE edit is a good effort. I also wanted to state that for genres in infoboxes, remember that they must usually remain specific yet concise in regards to the genres an album is most notably related to. Thanks for asking about this! You're learning well! Carlinal (talk) 06:17, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Thanks, but I did made a big mistake on You Know My Name (Look Up the Number) yesterday(which I did planned to this few weeks before I got the hang of putting a link next to the genre) by adding music hall and bossa nova just because it was in the sentence on its page and the link of the website didn't mention music hall at all, which I should've check, but it did mention the song as a bossa nova tune, and the guy who corrected it warn me if I did this again, I'll be blocked from editing, so I'm kinda nervous, but thanks for the advice, I think it'll help me with this.

Also, comedy and experimental rock is in the category for the song but not on the genre in the infobox. Is it because there's no source to put them on the genre in the infobox but it's still categorized as the genre for the song, same thing for psychedelic pop for smile. It's the reason I didn't put them in the infobox just to make sure. Codewriter1 (talk) 23:18, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

These are good to know. I suggest you put off with genre-related edits for a while and focus on some minor corrections, so that you can garner more experience in properly adding references. The external link categories are of a looser nature than what's listed in infoboxes, but it's best not to get into those as well yet.

I also wanna say that if you're not entirely sure about a certain edit, it's better to ask about it in the article's talk page or look through its edit history to see if similar edits have been done before or accepted. Sometimes there are frequent contributors seen in the edit history, and perhaps you can ask those particular people about it then.

I hope this section provided enough advice for you altogether. I don't think I'm that fit of a helper for other Wikipedians, I'm not that experienced regardless. Good luck! Carlinal (talk) 20:13, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

Notice glitch

Hey @Jauerback! I wanted to ask you if you're aware of a notice glitch that appears whenever someone edits articles, as in there's always one notice added. It's been appearing on both platforms I use Wikipedia with so I speculate it has something to do with more general coding. Are there any news/updates about this? Carlinal (talk) 08:09, 29 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm not aware of it. You might want to check at either the Help Desk or maybe the Village Pump. 13:05, 30 May 2023 (UTC) Jauerback^dude?/_dude. 13:05, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for your help! I found the appropriate thread of this problem. Carlinal (talk) 21:32, 30 May 2023 (UTC)

Glitch is gone! :D Carlinal (talk) 21:37, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

SMiLE

Hey, thanks for your improvements to various Beach Boys articles. On Smile I just tried to add a remark from Van Dyke about how he was displeased with the "abstract" direction Brian was going in by early 1967, which is something I'd never heard straight from the horse's mouth before, and seemed to clarify the adjacent secondary source about "the music not being sophisticated enough", which I'd always wondered about. Then my edit was reverted by another editor for being "unneeded". I don't want to get blocked or start a debate with them over something so minor, so if you feel that that was a detail worth adding, then please restore it. Thanks. 2601:192:8802:6FA0:455A:8ADC:7B:606F (talk) 00:50, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Hello 2601:192:8802, it's a pleasure to talk to you! I'm very grateful of the edits you've done on that article, I think ILIL would be proud. Looking through the revision history since my last edit, about half of Binksternet's edits are appropriate. I have several comments regarding these;

• I honestly don't know what else to say in defense for the group photo and its section; compared to the rest of the article, the photo itself still looks useful, but the info surrounding it is perhaps not.
• Carl's quote on releasing SMiLE in 1976 should be restored as the last quote in the section, but not block-quoted.
• I think you did a good move with Parks's objection to releasing Vega-Tables as a single. The "abstract" quote on the other hand, that seems redundant. Compared to Anderle's quote, I think "too abstract" and "too unsophisticated" are similar enough to not warrant both quotes being included.

In general, I'm surprised someone actually considered the group photo information and some images to be irrelevant. To me, this also means that there's finally a sufficient amount of necessary information about SMiLE to give in this article. Besides expanding the personnel section, I think it's time this article deserves some more focus on polishing and info organization and maybe even a peer review. It's a hell of a read. Thanks again for your efforts!

If you don't mind, in exchange for this, I'm asking if you could look through the latest section I added in the talk page for Pet Sounds. I'm hoping someone would recognize the sources I put up; I'm considering them for the Capitol release, legacy section, and perceived storyline sections respectively. It's 5:05 AM as I'm typing this, perhaps I'll do the SMiLE suggestions myself, but otherwise these notes should be put up. Thanks for visiting! Carlinal (talk) 09:07, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Regarding the group photo, how does it affect the Smile album? It reflects on Brian's career trajectory, but not the album directly.

The article is getting too large. It loses focus if it spends that much time on the dissolution of Brian, and the falling apart of the band. These ideas can be developed at the band and Brian articles. Binksternet (talk) 15:00, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

Oh hello :)

Some of the info on Brian's mental decline and the Beach Boys should definitely be moved to their respective articles, and I think a "Further information" section leading to Wilson's article could be added around this section. I'll see what I can do about SMiLE in a few days, I have to move for a vacation. Thanks for your contributions, Bink. Carlinal (talk) 15:09, 25 June 2023 (UTC)

I thought for a bit on the group photo. It should definitely be returned.

My reasoning is that regardless of its inherent value in itself, the photo represents the extent of Wilson's engagement in wanting himself and the Beach Boys to be part of a progressive, countercultural society, and illustrates the article's section about his associates vividly, showing the amount of people he accrued, the amount that believed in him and the album he was producing at the time, and the amount that hung around his house and were later banned from visiting throughout SMiLE's development. It hints to the reader the chaoticness of Wilson's social circle and the eventual negative effects that led to SMiLE's cancellation. Alternatively, it can be seen as how disconnected Wilson was with his bandmates by that point. As for its image caption in the last article it was in, I'm unsure if it needs shortening, but the main thing in the image is showing Brian Wilson's devotion towards the album and the circle of people that influenced him. Carlinal (talk) 05:07, 27 June 2023 (UTC)

Vent/Confession

I'm quite relieved that RockabillyRaccoon is permanently blocked today. Looking at the reasoning it's because their edits as a genre warrior and behavior in talk pages were very stubborn and abrasive. Once you expand an infobox's genre list to over four it gets cluttered. It should've been obvious. "Alternative" as a label exists probably in part to resolve situations like this, heh. That's not my biggest point of concern, however. Ever since I saw their edits on the images to the album covers of Pet Sounds and Let It Bleed, I realized that damage was already done long before them, and throughout this summer I checked their user contributions page almost every day specifically and only in the hopes to revert similar mistakes, including but not limited to the covers of Ace of Spades, Dirt, and a few Mushroomhead albums. Only image-related edits. It was never personal, I never cared for everything else they did. Just that not all of their images were higher quality replacements. Some were just to get the images 16 pixels smaller. I assume all of these were in good faith, and about 1 in 8 of the uploaded covers in that period were lower quality or unnecessary. Especially when you wouldn't go further than Discogs or Amazon as a source. I should write an essay about this. The YouTube Music page has the highest quality version of the cover to The Joshua Tree.

I'm a little guilty doing all those reverts and replacement edits and such. Even if all our actions are public I was basically stalking. I wonder how I could've done things a little better, and I thought about messaging their talk page, but I was unsure of the best way to word my intentions. I guess considering a certain someone got called a "Mini-Hitler" by Raccoon my efforts would've been for naught regardless. At least I was brought to more obscure articles to improve. Carlinal (talk) 23:07, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

There's a difference between "permanent" and "indefinite". On Wikipedia, an indefinite block can be appealed and lifted. You may want to consider how you'll react to the reactivation of RR. Binksternet (talk) 02:52, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

That's interesting to know, thanks for pointing that out. If their account does get reactivated from an appeal, I'll likely expect the same from them as you. Carlinal (talk) 17:51, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

New standard

Regarding the recent additions of discography pages to musical group infoboxes, does it only apply to bands or solo artists as well? Also, was it officially decided upon, and if so, is there a link? Thanks. HPSR (talk) 01:45, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm pretty sure it applies to anybody with a significant footing in music, including a discography page. But the only stuff I heard came from this section. I'll ping you there so we can ask more questions about it. Carlinal (talk) 02:03, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Very well; the proposition does include any artists/actors with a body of work. It appears my question was already answered. I've already added a handful of discography page parameters to notable artists' infoboxes and will keep an eye out for more. Cheers. HPSR (talk) 02:35, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

ヾ(＾-＾)ノ Carlinal (talk) 02:35, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Hey, Carlinal, I wanted to thank you for helping to add this to music infoboxes! It's such a genius idea that it's funny in retrospect that it wasn't done years ago. I check band articles ALL THE TIME because I want to review or remind myself of some discography bit (release years, which songs were singles, etc.). So helpful to have the link right there. Thanks again! CAVincent (talk) 06:12, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

You're welcome! Hey, I'll do y'all one better. Why not implement YouTube album playlists into their respective infoboxes as well? I'll be more than glad to outline what I meant. The platform's got everything licensed by this point, amirite? Carlinal (talk) 06:15, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

first

I started a discussion on Talk:Firsts in animation and wondering if you would like to join Fan Of Lion King 🦁 (talk) 19:24, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

With due respect, I'm not really interested. Perhaps another time. Carlinal (talk) 21:16, 8 September 2023 (UTC)

Deletion discussion about List of Beatles members

Hello, Carlinal

Welcome to Wikipedia! I edit here too, under the username Pichpich and it's nice to meet you :-)

I wanted to let you know that I've asked for a discussion about the redirect List of Beatles members, created by you. Your comments are welcome at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 October 17 § List of Beatles members.

If you have any questions, please leave a comment here and prepend it with {{Re|Pichpich}}. And, don't forget to sign your reply with ~~~~ . Thanks!

(Message delivered via the Page Curation tool, on behalf of the reviewer.)

Pichpich (talk) 16:11, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Aight, cool. Nice too meet you too! Carlinal (talk) 16:22, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Almost Top 100

Hi Carlinal, I just wanted to let you know that I’m removing the Do Not Archive tag on my Almost Top 100 post as I’ve moved the list to the List of Top 100 Games by Number of Referenced Sources. You are free to repost your link from the Almost Top 100 article to over there if you desire. XJJSX (talk) 19:43, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

Ok cool, I don't have anything against that. :) Carlinal (talk) 19:46, 1 November 2023 (UTC)

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A virtual Christmas card from me to you

This video just got uploaded and I thought it'd be fun to share here. Have a merry December! Carlinal (talk) 20:04, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Red Luigi

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The page Red Luigi has been speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This was done under section G4 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the page appeared to be a repost of material that was previously deleted following a deletion discussion, such as at Articles for deletion. When a page has substantially identical content to that of a page deleted after a discussion, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time.

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Huh? I'm sorry if I did something wrong, this was just another redirect and was always intended as one. I have created dozens of redirects before, some that you have reviewed, and there was no problem I can recall whatsoever. I didn't see anything unusual with "Red Luigi" especially since "Green Mario" is also a redirect that was standing by the time I created this one. Lastly, there was no warning or anything while I was creating a page of this title in particular. If there's any specific discussion about "Red Luigi" I need to know about, I'd be happy to be shown the link to it. And, uh, would be better linked to the remains of this deleted page, I guess? Thanks. Carlinal (talk) 17:36, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Ah. Wait, I see now. Somehow I wasn't shown the linked discussion or forgot. There was no malice behind this. Thanks again! Carlinal (talk) 17:38, 15 December 2023 (UTC)

Grateful Dead Hornsby Revert

Hello Carlinal. You reverted my addition of Bruce Hornsby as a member of the Grateful Dead stating ‘It's been proven that Hornsby was never a full-time member…’. As a lifelong fan, I am hoping you can provide a reputable citation supporting this claim. 136.37.147.223 (talk) 15:28, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

It's a little complicated since the Grateful Dead's live performances are just as prominent as their studio works, but from what I know Hornsby never became anymore involved with the Dead than touring. I reverted your edit in the infobox because of this technicality in that a band member does not qualify if they were only for touring. I never read anything about Hornsby appearing in any of their studio albums, and despite him inducting the other Grateful Dead members into the Rock Hall he himself isn't one, perhaps in relation to this technicality. Though he is no less beloved, I understand.

This interview mentions Hornsby as part of the Dead's "traveling roadshow", which is the best citation I can come up with. But if you can find a studio album with his credit on it then I'll be interested to know. That's my process of thought. Carlinal (talk) 17:02, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

If that is the reasoning, Vince Welnick should not be recognized as a member as he was not credited on any studio album. 136.37.147.223 (talk) 17:13, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I guess by that logic Welnick wouldn't be considered a member either. At this point that's as much as I can help you with, I'm a bit of a passerby. Since you're a Deadhead, I suggest you take it to the article's talk page to sort things out. There's already consensus on Hornsby not being considered a member, and you can elaborate your opinions there. My apologies for any confusion. Carlinal (talk) 18:55, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the discussion and suggestion. I’ll see where the talk takes me. EazyAnswers (talk) 19:55, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Removing parameters that are not filled out in infoboxes; WP:ALT

Hello. I've noticed that on several album articles you have removed parameters that are not filled out in the infobox, and called the edits "tweaks". Per Template:Infobox album: "Do not remove fields from this list when the value is unknown; in that case the values should be left blank." There is nothing wrong with having blank parameters in infoboxes like recorded= and studio=, so they don't need to be removed. Wikipedia will never be complete, and having blank parameters that still apply to all albums shows we do not yet have that information to editors. Per WP:ALT, alt= for images should not be removed even if is not filled out, so please do not remove that parameter. Thanks. Ss112 11:53, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

That's a good argument. Thanks for the comment! I'll try not to repeat similar edits from here on. Carlinal (talk) 14:10, 26 December 2023 (UTC)

Potential dispute on Undertale

I recently made an edit on Undertale as you probably know. I got reverted by User:Ferret who said that the old terminology is "better overall and better supported by the narrative", whatever that means. (Yes, I know I did say to revert me if I made an error, but I was referring to my overall small amount of knowledge on the subject due to me never having actually played the game, not to stuff like this.) As I see you thanked me on that edit I invite you to weigh in on the matter if you have anything to say. The discussion is happening on Talk:Undertale. TypoEater (talk) 19:21, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Reading the relevant section it seems it got resolved already without any further contributions from me. I don't think the aforementioned information and acronyms are beyond a minor edit anyhow. And I'm certain ferret took your efforts in good faith with a well-laid rebuttal and all. Just another day for me. Article is at its best regardless. Thanks for your efforts anyway! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Carlinal (talk) 22:11, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Yeah sorry, I posted this on your page at around the same time I posted it on the talk page and Ferret's page. It got resolved pretty quick, but I still feel like the situation could have been easily avoided if Ferret had given me specifics when I asked for specifics. TypoEater (talk) 14:39, 6 February 2024 (UTC)

File:Emblem Bowser.svg listed for discussion

A file that you uploaded or altered, File:Emblem Bowser.svg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Files for discussion. Please see the discussion to see why it has been listed (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry). Feel free to add your opinion on the matter below the nomination. Thank you. Has one ever considered Magneton? Pokelego999 (talk) 23:29, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

Brian Jones

Is it unnecessary? The old wording makes it sound like he died as an incumbent band member! (Not everyone just knows the story.) Romomusicfan (talk) 15:41, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

Yeah, it is. We just don't add such tiny details over someone's tenure in a band. (I will add it's unusual for Jones to die so soon after his departure, but then again it was the 1960s.) It's not much to worry about anyway, as the band members section comes after a whole lotta history, so readers should understand Jones didn't die during his time as a member. Carlinal (talk) 15:50, 25 February 2024 (UTC)

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⇒SWATJester ^{Shoot Blues, Tell VileRat!} 07:10, 10 March 2024 (UTC)

Just wanna say thank you for adding the contentious topics notice on the talk page. I'll do my best to handle what I give myself there. Carlinal (talk) 16:47, 10 March 2024 (UTC)