User talk:Amakuru/Archive 14

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Evidence of common descent

Hello Amakuru. I just noticed the close, but it also appears to only close the discussion part (the votes were just above in the previous section). Just in case you either forgot to close both, or only looked at that section to evaluate the consensus. Thanks, —PaleoNeonate – 22:21, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Yes, the discussion was not finished and there was not consensus. The section above the requested move was in overwhelming support of the request. This section was considered part of the move as it was linked in the original request reason. Andrew Z. Colvin • Talk 22:26, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

The RM begins where it says "requested move 13 July" and the earlier discussion is not part of that. You should ping everyone who discussed it earlier so they can say support or Oppose in the RM, and it becomes a coherent discussion. Since there was confusion and the close may not be clear cut I've undone my close, reopened the discussion and instead added another Oppose.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:56, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
Indeed, the reason was that the discussion had started but was not an official RM one yet then. When the official RM was started (quite close in the beginning of the discussion), it was assumed that the section was still valid. Thanks, —PaleoNeonate – 23:23, 6 August 2018 (UTC)

Nagano (, Nagano)

Thank you for the Nagano, Nagano close. It must have been a painful task if you have read the whole discussion indeed (but please don't tell ;) ). While "no consensus" could have been an opportune option, it takes a good admin to make the right call and make at least the first cut in the Gordian knot known as WP:MOSJA. Nobody is happy with the current naming practice, but discussions how to tackle it just go in circles until everyone just gets exhausted and frustrated.
Hope you had a nice vacation, if that was the reason for your recent absence; it felt at RM. No such user (talk) 20:24, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

@No such user: thanks for your kind message, and yes it was a slightly tricky call to make - my heart sank when I saw the "new message" notification because I expected it to be someone complaining about the close But on the whole I thought it did have the numbers in support and there didn't seem any good policy reason to call no consensus, even with something of a precedent in other articles. As you say, those can be addressed now if need be as well.
My absence was partly due to a very nice vacation and partly because I started a new job a few weeks ago. And we have had an almost unprecedented three months of endless hot days here in the UK, which has dragged me outside more than usual. I was actually quite surprised to see the long backlog at WP:RMB because for the past year or two there seems to have been quite an eager crew of page movers keeping that list down. Perhaps they're on vacation at the moment as well. I hope all is well with you as well and you're enjoying the summer or winter wherever you are!  — Amakuru (talk) 20:32, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
Ah, weather is always a good way to start a chat; down here in the Balkans we had rain only twice this summer: the first time for 20 days and the second for 30. But maybe it was interesting for everyone to see the normals reversing (I'm not too fond of our typical 35+ C summers anyway). But yeah, I'm off to vacation starting tomorrow. While I do delve into clearing up RMB occasionally, it was hectic in my (old) job lately. And those Bigg Boss/Big Brother RMs were particularly uninspiring to tackle, I must say. No such user (talk) 20:46, 7 August 2018 (UTC)
Ah nice, I've always meant to visit the Balkans, you seem to have a lot of beautiful places to visit and mostly better weather than London, but sounds like a good job I didn't choose to go this year! Maybe next year. I've visited about 40 countries, but always on the look out for new ones.  — Amakuru (talk) 20:54, 7 August 2018 (UTC)

Close wording

Hey, thank you for wrapping this up. That said, I think adding something about how "a larger discussion about other such titles can be had at the appropriate forum" or some such would keep the neutrals (and perhaps one or two of the opposes) happy, especially given that they were technically right on the procedure (I just have less faith in the procedure than they do). Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 02:32, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Sorry. Didn't see I wasn't the first to bring this up. Leaving a further note so no one thinks I wrote the above while already aware of the above discussion, which I still have not read as of now. Hijiri 88 (聖やや) 04:04, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
@Hijiri88: thanks for your message. I have added a note to that effect to my close. Hope that helps.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:21, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Yogyakarta Kraton Guards

Hi, I think you forgot to move the actual page AnakPejuangIndonesia (talk) 12:52, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

@AnakPejuangIndonesia: oh yes, so I did. I moved the talk page only by mistake. Corrected it now. Thanks for pointing this out!  — Amakuru (talk) 14:47, 8 August 2018 (UTC)

Salting Bhanwar Singh Vaish

Hiya, can you please salt Bhanwar Singh Vaish as per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Bhanwar Singh Vaish. Thanks. --Tyw7 (🗣️ Talk) — If (reply) then (ping me) 18:19, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

@Tyw7: OK, I've done it. Not sure it was particularly necessary, given that the page hasn't been recreated again, it only existed once. But does'nt seem like there's a good reason why anyone would recreate it so have salted.  — Amakuru (talk) 18:28, 9 August 2018 (UTC)

Donald Trump

I note that this diff appears to be a violation of the consensus required before restoration restriction..Also, my personal way to resolve this would be to do "Trump's paternal grandfather, Frederick Trump, first immigrated to the United States in 1885 at the age of 16 and became a citizen in 1892", i.e omit the fact that Trump's grandfather had a different original Germanic name as being irrelevant Galobtter (pingó mió) 08:43, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

@Galobtter: oh, I wasn't even aware of that restriction so thanks for letting me know. I'd have thought it's on the verge of WP:IAR though, because (a) the change has nothing to do with Trump's politics or anything controversial, and (b) it was a clear improvement over the previous version given the inconsistency in naming, and the reverter probably wasn't aware of why I had made the change in the first place. Your suggestion is even better than mine anyway, so I've gone ahead and done that. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 12:42, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
Just FYI in case you're ever back there, it's a very bright line and even the minorest edits have been subject to it. I've never seen an IAR override attempted, but I don't think it would succeed. This is better than the alternative, in my strong opinion. Truly clear improvements get talk page consensus quickly, as has been shown multiple times at that article. ―Mandruss ☎ 15:55, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
@Mandruss: thanks. Will certainly bear that in mind in future.  — Amakuru (talk) 16:59, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Your Black lounge suit#Requested move 29 July 2018 move

Move requests are based on guidelines and not on vote count, yet none of the supports have provided any evidence to support their claim that this topic is a British topic and that "Black Loungue suit" is the widely known term. Currently, as the article stands, it reads as if this is a German term which should use the German name. I fail to see how a 2-3 move, citing guidelines lacking any backing had a consensus for the move. The onus should be on those arguing for the move. --Gonnym (talk) 16:42, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

@Gonnym: I've reverted the close, because you're correct that it's a close-run thing, and the support arguments were not absolutely convinging. But I have also added a support !vote of my own, because I think the new title is better per WP:RECOGNIZE. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 16:59, 12 August 2018 (UTC)

Diggle and the Arrow characters

You've moved John Diggle and Oliver Queen to a disambig page of "Arrowverse". The reason it is "Arrow" is because that is where they first appeared. The fact that they have appeared on another show is irrelevant, because naming conventions (WP:NCTV) says to put the show name there that they appear on. Those characters are on "Arrow" and have only guest starred on other shows. Not to mention that "Arrowverse" is still a fanmade term. Just as an example, Angel (Buffy the Vampire Slayer), originated on Buffy, starred in his own show later, and isn't listed as "Angel (Angel TV show)" nor "Angel (Buffyverse)" (which is also a page Buffyverse).  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 13:28, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

@Bignole: please see Talk:John Diggle (Arrowverse)#Requested move 1 August 2018. The conversation was split between those who felt that Arrow wasn't WP:PRECISE enough because of the appearances in other shows, and those who felt that NCTV wasn't met. The numbers were fairly even, with conflicting policy and guidelines used on each side. The consensus was definitely for a move of some sort though, but with no consensus for which title, so I just went with the one with the most support. I suggest we let this one bed down for a while, then in a month or two if you're still not happy you can propose a move to Arrow again.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:39, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
My issue with that is it is setting a precedent against NCTV. People will then start arguing, "well see, John Diggle is listed as "Arrowverse" so we need to start moving similar pages to these fan titled universes". I mean, wrong is wrong. I agree it should have moved, as it should have been "john diggle (arrow)" from the get go. If everyone is in agreement that it needs to move, but it's split on using "Arrow" or "Arrowverse", and we have a naming convention guideline that already points us to the correct answer in that split, why we would pick against the guideline? It seems more appropriate to follow the guideline and if it's still an issue a month or two later then have that discussion (as it has direct impact across ALL tv character articles with similar setups).  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 13:57, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
It's not even consistent within these pages, as no one was advocating that Joe West (The Flash) be Joe West (Arrowverse) (which is a redirect).  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 14:02, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
Came here because the talk page needs to be fixed and moved back to Talk:John Diggle (Arrowverse), but Bignole, WP:OSE is not a valid argument. Also, if you do go that route, please note that most Star Trek character articles (for all series) are disimbiguated as "(Star Trek)", MCU character articles (there are two atm) are disambiguated as "(Marvel Cinematic Universe)" and even Star Wars articles are disambiguated as "(Star Wars)", so common Wikipedia practice is not against shared universe usage. --Gonnym (talk) 14:27, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
As I already said, there were valid arguments on both sides. Your argument is not wrong, Bignole, but the argument that he appeared in non-Arrow works and therefore should not be at "Arrow" per WP:PRECISE is also not wrong. There's no "correct" place to put this and we just have to pick one or the other, and it will be clear to future discussions re NCTV that this is a special case rather than a precedent for anything else.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:32, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
PRECISE would apply if "Arrowverse" was not only an officially sanctioned name by Warner Bros. It's not, it's just a fan-term that caught on when reporting, just like the DC Extended Universe is not the official name of those movies, but something created by a reporter that caught up with other reporters). Additionally, Star Wars is the name of that universe. Star Trek is the name of that universe. That stuff makes sense. "Arrowverse" is not an official name, nor was it their intention of creating such a vast universe. It just happened to grow into that over the years.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 15:02, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
The producers have said on record that they use that name. Sources were presented in the discussions. --Gonnym (talk) 15:04, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
And even if they didn't, the name is well-attested in other reliable sources as demonstrated at the RM and we have an article at Arrowverse so clearly it is a thing.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:10, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
They use it now, but it wasn't how Diggle came about. Either way, "Arrowverse" isn't a show. NCTV clearly says "show" is used there, not fantasy term used to describe multiple shows. Again, see Buffyverse, which is where "Arrowverse" originates his nomenclature from...and how "Angel" isn't listed as "Angel (Buffyverse)". Diggle should not be "Arrowverse", he should simply be "Arrow", because he started there, that's his show, that's where people know him from anyway, and we should not be placing undue weight on these guest appearances that are largely tied to multi-show crossovers and nothing else.  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 17:24, 17 August 2018 (UTC)
You have your right to your opinions, the majority in the discussion thought otherwise. --Gonnym (talk) 17:29, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

I'm sorry, but that is inaccurate. Maybe if you want to argue "simple majority", but if you look it was basically 6 to 4 (in the discussion, but it was 4 to 4 in the actual vote...and it would have been 5 had I known the discussion was taking place). Your examples of Star Trek and Star Wars are not applicable. The reason that most of those exist as simply "Star Wars" and "Star Trek" (the actual names of those shows) is because of the length of official names. It would be ridiculous to say "Jean-Luc Picard (Star Trek: The Next Generation), when "jean-luc picard (Star Trek)" does the same on a shorter platform and is just as ambiguous. If there happened to be 2 different Jean-Lucs (unrelated to each other), you could bet it would actually say "ST:TNG" in it. The same with Star Wars that has a sentence in each film's title. That is not the case here, where "Arrow" is not only ambiguous, but shorter than Arrowverse. It's also more widely known as the character on "Arrow" and not the character in the "Arrowverse".  BIGNOLE  (Contact me) 18:18, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

It was actually 5-4 (you might have forgot to count the name change requester) - so still a majority. Also notice that some people from the previous discussion that voted in favor of Arrowverse also didn't show up for this one. My examples of Star Trek and Star Wars are perfectly fine, they just don't sit will with your argument - Observer (Mystery Science Theater 3000), Gypsy (Mystery Science Theater 3000), Edward Barnes (Upstairs, Downstairs), Chester Lake (Law & Order: Special Victims Unit), George Huang (Law & Order: Special Victims Unit) and Tony Stark (Marvel Cinematic Universe) are examples of long names which are fine. Also, Episode 5 and 6 and the anthology series are not called "Star Wars: x" so that argument is also not valid and regardless if it did, that argument is not in the NCTV - you can't have it both ways, saying one naming method is against the guideline and is wrong, but the other which is also not an option, is fine. Also, shorter is by no means the only or even the most important factor in naming an article, but defining what the actual article is, and in this case, it's a character from the whole franchise of the Arrowverse, not just John's Arrow appearances. In addition, the Comics naming convention guideline usually go for character name (code name) which in this case is actually John Diggle (Arrow), so that title is very ambiguous as the question rises, is this article for John's appearances as the superhero "Arrow" or John's appearances on the TV show "Arrow"? --Gonnym (talk) 18:53, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Alki

Hi, I noticed that you changed "Alki" to "Al-ki". According to the official Washington State Legislature page, both forms are correct, but the article and the source use "Alki", so that should be how it appears in the hook. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 19:14, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

It looks like you're not around, so I posted this to WP:ERRORS. MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 19:38, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

I see that you were around after all. Thank you for taking care of it! MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 19:43, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

@Mandarax: OK, not a problem. The Alki version wasn't mentioned in the actual linked list until you inserted it, hence why that was initially raised I think.  — Amakuru (talk) 19:45, 17 August 2018 (UTC)

Notice of noticeboard discussion

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. The thread is "Need_a_new_POTD_coordinator". Thank you. --SQLQuery me! 01:55, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

Discussion was not over

Hi, this discussion was not over yet, I was still talking to someone there. Leo1pard (talk) 05:24, 18 August 2018 (UTC)

RD

Hey, you can put John Shipley Rowlinson back in RDs as a maximum of four listings there is permitted. The Rambling Man (talk) 13:42, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

oh yeah. I miscounted. Thanks.  — Amakuru (talk) 14:07, 19 August 2018 (UTC)

Requested move discussion Oliver Queen (Arrow)

Greetings! I have recently relisted a requested move discussion at Talk:Oliver Queen (Arrow), regarding a page relating to this WikiProject. Discussion and opinions are invited. Thanks, AutumnKing (talk) 08:08, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Franjo Tuđman Airport Zagreb

Hi, I just want to warn you about unjustified edit you executed with renaming page Franjo Tuđman Airport Zagreb back to Zagreb Airport and making excuse with discussion from 2016. That time discussion about move was meaningful since airport was just renamed month ago, so that name change still wasnt't implemented on official website and other places (including media and everyday life). That was argument for keeping old name Zagreb Airport. Now, we have totally different case: as I wrote, now it stands clearly Franjo Tuđman Airport Zagreb on official website (you can also make sure, [1]) and on terminal ([2]). Same case with media and everyday life. Now you can everywhere see Zračna luka Franjo Tuđman (Croatian term for Franjo Tuđman Airport). I hope you see we have clear situtation with name now, so renaming discussions are unnecessarily. Cheers, --Ernies73 (talk) 05:44, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

@Ernies73: thank you for your message. I understand your argument, but you may have misunderstood the way Wikipedia naming works. The name on the airport website is one possible name that we may call the article, but it is not automatically the one we use. The choice of name is governed by the WP:COMMONNAME policy, which says that we should use the name most commonly found in English-language reliable sources, not necessarily the official name. (There is also more aobut this in the essay WP:OFFICIALNAMES). And yes, some time has passed, so usage may have changed, but because this was clearly controversial in the past, it is best to initiate a fresh discussion at WP:RM rather than automatically moving it, to see if the community agrees that the situation has changed. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 07:01, 22 August 2018 (UTC)

R U OK

You seem to have left the RM of Merveille Ndockyt closed but not actioned... did stuff IRL happen? Andrewa (talk) 20:21, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

yeah, I hope everything is fine. —usernamekiran(talk) 06:21, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
@Andrewa: @Usernamekiran: Oh yes, everything is absolutely fine thanks. I've reclosed that Merveil RM now... I have no recollection as to why I didn't do the move, but as it was noon Christmas day I'm assuming that perhaps my leisurely editing session was interrupted by something like gift opening or my goose being cooked.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:49, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
this is not a happy answer —usernamekiran(talk) 14:17, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
It does leave a lot unanswered... but my particular question seems to have been happily answered. Andrewa (talk) 06:12, 27 August 2018 (UTC)

Queue 3

Hi, you changed this hook to:

  • Sorry, but this robs the hook of all hookiness. Why don't you just say:
  • ... that since some Mormon historians in the field of Mormon studies have been excommunicated, Mormon scholars have the sense that they are being watched?
  • Also, the link to excommunications needs to be piped to the LDS Church: [[Excommunication#The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints|excommunications]] Yoninah (talk) 23:10, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
in what way is it robbed of hookiness? The new version says the exact same thing as the old version, except that it's now clear who is being referred to when it talks of "them" being watched.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:14, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
Well, I liked the rhythm of the previous hook. Reading yours again, you at least got rid of the third mention of "Mormon". Please fix the link to excommunications and I'll call it a night :) Yoninah (talk) 23:34, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
Never mind. It really is late for me and I'm not thinking clearly anymore. The hook is fine. The link is fine. Yoninah (talk) 23:36, 26 August 2018 (UTC)
alright thanks then. Have a good night.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:38, 26 August 2018 (UTC)

Thorpe, Norfolk

Thorpe Hamlet is a PTM for Thorpe, a hatnote should be enough and Thorpe St Andrew is also more notable. Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:28, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

@Crouch, Swale: I'm just converting it to a disambiguation page now. It looks like a bit of a wash between the two Norwich suburbs, plus there's also Thorpe Market.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:30, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
Shouldn't it redirect to a section of Thorpe? per WP:INCDAB where there are several already included. Crouch, Swale (talk) 10:32, 29 August 2018 (UTC)
That depends on whether you think this is a legitimate search term in its own right. I suspect it is, and readers looking for "Thorpe, Norfolk" would not be served well by taking them to a much larger list of Thorpes, most of which are not in Norfolk.  — Amakuru (talk) 10:37, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 30 August 2018

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:02, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

Killing of Mollie Tibbetts

Be careful about closing discussions such as Killing of Mollie Tibbetts before one week has elapsed. --Jax 0677 (talk) 20:00, 30 August 2018 (UTC)

ANI

So canvassing and a walled garden filled with socks and "fanboys" is not worthy of discussion. Glad I know that now so I can stop wasting my time here. --Randykitty (talk) 08:41, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

@Randykitty: That discussion had descended into pointless bickering, and there was no prospect of any action being taken. If you have a specific accusation to make about "fanboys" etc. then feel free to start a new discussion about that, with specific evidence. The thread I closed was not about that though, it was about Fish and Karate, and there was no consensus that he, or indeed Spartaz, had done anything actionable. I'm sorry to see you resigning over this, I hope that you will reconsider in the fullness of time because Wikipedia is about much more than this, we all have our ups and downs, and your contributions are certainly valued.  — Amakuru (talk) 09:26, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

WikiCup 2018 September newsletter

The fourth round of the 2018 WikiCup has now come to an end. The eight users who made it to the final round had to score a minimum of 422 points to qualify, with the top score in the round being 4869 points. The leaders in round 4 were:

  • South Carolina Courcelles scored a magnificent 4869 points, with 92 good articles on Olympics-related themes. Courcelles' bonus points alone exceeded the total score of any of the other contestants!
  • Hel, Poland Kees08 was second with 1155 points, including a high-scoring featured article for Neil Armstrong, two good topics and some Olympics-related good articles.
  • Scotland Cas Liber, with 1066 points, was in third place this round, with two featured articles and a good article, all on natural history topics.
  • Other contestants who qualified for the final round were Marshall Islands Nova Crystallis, Republic of Texas Iazyges, Cascadia (independence movement) SounderBruce, Wales Kosack and United States Ceranthor.

During round four, 6 featured articles and 164 good articles were promoted by WikiCup contestants, 13 articles were included in good topics and 143 good article reviews were performed. There were also 10 "in the news" contributions on the main page and 53 "did you knows". Congratulations to all who participated! It was a generally high-scoring and productive round and I think we can expect a highly competitive finish to the competition.

Remember that any content promoted after the end of round 4 but before the start of round 5 can be claimed in round 5. Remember too that you must claim your points within 10 days of "earning" them. If you are concerned that your nomination will not receive the necessary reviews, please list it on Wikipedia:WikiCup/Reviews. It would be helpful if this list could be cleared of any items no longer relevant. If you want to help out with the WikiCup, please do your bit to keep down the review backlogs! Questions are welcome on Wikipedia talk:WikiCup, and the judges are reachable on their talk pages or by email. Good luck, and let the best editor win! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Godot13, Sturmvogel 66, Vanamonde and Cwmhiraeth. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 18:30, 1 September 2018 (UTC)

Barnstar of Integrity

The Barnstar of Integrity
For singlehandedly stepping up to shoulder the burden of POTD when no one else would. You deserve recognition for your integrity in more ways than one. Your actions, which prompted the previous POTD coordinator to rage quit the project, were reasonable, bold, and in good faith, and were only part of your overall efforts to preserve the integrity of the main page, which in itself deserves great recognition. You didn't do anything wrong, however, and you did not have to take responsibility for the fallout. Nevertheless, you did. While other admins idly bantered back and forth in response, you quietly began taking on the workload, seeking no recognition. Incredible. Thank you for all you do here, Amakuru. This project is lucky to have you. Swarm ♠ 04:22, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
Amen! — JFG talk 11:50, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
@Swarm: @JFG: many thanks for you kind words. In all these matters, I just try to do the right thing, and strive to make the encyclopedia the best it can be, while also keeping things as civil as possible and treat people with the respect they deserve. I was starting to worry though, with another user apparently leaving because of my admin actions yesterday.[3] So it really means a lot to me that you guys, as well as Lourdes (who reinstated my original close in that contentious discussion) are telling me I'm doing the right things. All we can do it try out best, anyway! As for the POTD, yes, I've been filling those in for a couple of weeks now, and making sure the blurbs are properly verifiable. It's quite fun actually, because it involves a bit of research and digging, and learning new things...  — Amakuru (talk) 21:21, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
Point of order, Your actions, which prompted the previous POTD coordinator to rage quit the project, that's not true, if you believe the admins who defended (and continue to defend) the personal attacks on Crisco's talk page), it was all down to me. I hate to grab the glory, but actually Amakuru did nothing other than try to maintain the integrity of the main page. They still deserve the barnstar, for sure, but please don't assume they were the hate-focus of the exiting admin. That, by all accounts, was entirely down to me (and at least one other flouncing admin "can't forgive me" for it!). Just to square this off. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:34, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
Well yes, you're certainly the principal target of his anger, TRM, with your devious insistence on things written on the main page being correct. But based on things I can't really go into here, I'm pretty sure he's struck me from his Christmas card list as well. Shame really, and I have nothing against him myself, but I don't think we should change any of the things we do because of flouncing.  — Amakuru (talk) 21:45, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
Ditto. But if it helps, I'll send you twice my normal output of Xmas cards. That way you'll feel twice as special doing the same stuff we all do around here without any thanks. At least some of us just crack on and do our best for the reading millions. Thanks, Amakuru, for your ongoing support in that. The divas come and go, the rest of us will just focus on what's needed to create an encyclopedia for now and the future. The Rambling Man (talk) 21:49, 2 September 2018 (UTC)
TRM, I didn't follow the aftermath on either your or Chris's page, and looking at it now I'm disgusted. Had I seen it, I would have been one of the users defending you. I suppose the natural reaction to a user being "driven off" the project by a tendentious "meddler" is to desire vengeance, and I suspect that's what we witnessed with the administrators who rushed to condemn you. However, that was what Crisco framed it as, not what actually happened. What we saw here was a classic DIVA ragequit. I mean, textbook. Assigning blame to somebody who didn't actually do anything wrong to justify their irrational temper tantrum is pathetic and low. The admins who rushed to your condemnation were not defending a slain friend from a bad person, they were engaging in personal attacks, conduct unbecoming, and harassing. They were not punishing you for "meddling", they were punishing you for attempting to maintain content standards. They were being motivated by heated emotions which preventing them from rationally, objectively assessing the situation. I'm sorry you had to experience that. It's not fair, and it's not right. A generous assessment could be that these users were motivated by their huge capacity for empathy. I think that's likely of at least Cullen, who is widely known as one of the calmest admins around. With the other two, I get the impression that there is some history there that I do not know about. I suspect that it was merely passing emotion, but if you ever feel like you're being treated unfairly by any of these admins, do not hesitate to quote me on my view that they've expressed an inappropriate degree of personal animosity towards you and that it would be inappropriate for any of them to attempt to engage you in an uninvolved administrative capacity. Swarm ♠ 00:04, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Swarm, cheers for that, much appreciated. The three of them know they seriously messed things up, and fortunately for them have avoided making any further contact. I will happily take you up on your offer though, should the need arise. Cheers. The Rambling Man (talk) 10:59, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
It's fine to have "friends" on Wikipedia, and certainly there are some editors that I like and enjoy working with more than others, but when that friendship gets in the way of making rational and impartial assessments of a situation, then it's gone too far. Other than a few people I've seen at the meetups, everyone else is just a handle to someone in a far-off place, and we don't really know each other properly so let's just work with the evidence, not with emotion.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:04, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
(←) Anyway Amakuru, I'm very glad to hear that you're enjoying the work, and I echo TRM's sentiments that we're lucky to have someone who's dedicated to the integrity of the content doing the job. And since you brought it up, you don't need to feel guilty for the other admin leaving either. It was another inexplicable, irrational rage quit. You did nothing wrong by closing that discussion, which was essentially an overly-dramatic forum post from which nothing would come. Although it's theoretically possible to propose that a DRV closure be overturned by the community via a formal WP:CLOSECHALLENGE at AN, but that's not what that thread was, and no one involved was attempting to start one. It was going nowhere, and there was nothing more to say. You're going a good job, and you don't deserve to be marred by these "diva" actions. I hate to see these high-profile departures lately, but the community will do just fine without admins who can't keep their cool. We lose far more admins to inactivity, and the community will keep marching on thanks to users like yourself. Keep up the great work! Swarm ♠ 00:04, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – September 2018

News and updates for administrators from the past month (August 2018).

Administrator changes

added None
removed Asterion • Crisco 1492 • KF • Kudpung • Liz • Randykitty • Spartaz
renamed Optimist on the run → Voice of Clam

Interface administrator changes

added Amorymeltzer • Mr. Stradivarius • MusikAnimal • MSGJ • TheDJ • Xaosflux

Guideline and policy news

  • Following a "stop-gap" discussion, six users have temporarily been made interface administrators while discussion is ongoing for a more permanent process for assigning the permission. Interface administrators are now the only editors allowed to edit sitewide CSS and JavaScript pages, as well as CSS/JS pages in another user's userspace. Previously, all administrators had this ability. The right can be granted and revoked by bureaucrats.

Technical news

  • Because of a data centre test you will be able to read but not edit the wikis for up to an hour on 12 September and 10 October. This will start at 14:00 (UTC). You might lose edits if you try to save during this time. The time when you can't edit might be shorter than an hour.
  • Some abuse filter variables have changed. They are now easier to understand for non-experts. The old variables will still work but filter editors are encouraged to replace them with the new ones. You can find the list of changed variables on mediawiki.org. They have a note which says Deprecated. Use ... instead. An example is article_text which is now page_title.
  • Abuse filters can now use how old a page is. The variable is page_age.

Arbitration

  • The Arbitration Committee has resolved to perform a round of Checkuser and Oversight appointments. The usernames of all applicants will be shared with the Functionaries team, and they will be requested to assist in the vetting process. The deadline to submit an application is 23:59 UTC, 12 September, and the candidates that move forward will be published on-wiki for community comments on 18 September.
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 23:22, 2 September 2018 (UTC)

Main page typo

Hi. You misspelled "honoured". MANdARAX • XAЯAbИAM 11:11, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

@Mandarax: ouch, sorry about that. Fixed. Thanks for spotting it.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:49, 3 September 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 4

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Thomas Gainsborough, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page National Portrait Gallery (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

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AfroCine: Join us for the Months of African Cinema in October!

Greetings!

You are receiving this message because your username or portal was listed as a participant of a WikiProject that is related to Africa, the Carribean, Cinema or theatre.

This is to introduce you to a new Wikiproject called AfroCine. This new project is dedicated to improving the Wikipedia coverage of the history, works, people, places, events, etc, that are associated with the cinema, theatre and arts of Africa, African countries, the carribbean, and the diaspora. If you would love to be part of this or you're already contributing in this area, kindly list your name as a participant on the project page here.

Furthermore, In the months of October and November, the WikiProject is organizing a global on-wiki contest and edit-a-thon tagged: The Months of African Cinema. If you would love to join us for this exciting event, also list your username as a participant for this event here. In preparation for the contest, please do suggest relevant articles that need to be created or expanded in different countries, during this event!

If you have any questions, complaints, suggestions, etc., please reach out to me personally on my talkpage! Cheers!--Jamie Tubers (talk) 20:50, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Kenneth Tobin

Please reverse your A7 deletion of Kenneth Tobin. It was a bad choice, because the article is not eligible for A7: its first line states that he held the title of "Presidential Professor" which not only is a claim of significance (per A7) but also is likely by itself enough to pass our guidelines for academic notability. The version you deleted sourced that claim in a bad format (external link rather than footnote), but that's not a matter for A7. —David Eppstein (talk) 21:05, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

@David Eppstein: I suppose you're right about the presidential professor thing, I wasn't aware of that title, but still seems quite a tenuous claim to fame, and the article has already been deleted once before for being an unsourced BLP (which it still is). But since you requested it, I'll restore it. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 21:23, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Having a titled position like that is a significant honor within academia. For that matter, "he has published numerous books" is also a claim of significance, sufficient to avoid A7 deletion (although it would need more justification than that to pass an AfD). Anyway, thanks for the restoration. —David Eppstein (talk) 22:22, 7 September 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for September 12

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Leonardo Loredan, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Emperor Maximilian (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:23, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

Tirupati Airport with International Tag

Hi Amakuru, there is discussion happening on Tirupati Airport being mentioned as International within the article text. Can you have a look. aggi007(talk) 09:39, 12 September 2018 (UTC)

POTD templates

As you appear to have been selecting most of the POTDs in recent weeks, and setting up the templates, may I encourage you to put a notification template on the talk page for the relevant article(s) as part of that process. I think I've caught up now for the last few weeks: I've been adding (example) {{POTD/2018-09-17}} to the bold linked article (and sometimes to the article for the artwork, if different) but if I was doing it sufficiently far in advance, now I see I could have been using {{UpcomingPOTD}} (which takes two parameters: the file name for the selected image, and the selected date) to solicit improvements from the regular editors of the relevant articles. I know you have been improving the articles yourselves, but there is always a small chance that someone might help you out with one or two of them. Thanks. 213.205.198.167 (talk) 11:01, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

@213.205.198.167: alright, thanks for the heads up. I'll endeavour to be adding those from now on. One more thing to add to the process! Perhaps I should write myself a bot or script to help. Would certainly be useful to get more people improving their own articles up to the needed level of verifiability though.  — Amakuru (talk) 11:51, 17 September 2018 (UTC)

WP:ERRORS

That was an elegant solution, thanks. --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:40, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

@Floquenbeam: thanks. It should have satisfied the concerns raised, and it even matches the "Previously featured:" box on the same template. But I guess you can't please everybody.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:43, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
No, you can't, and I'm slowly realizing that after a while, it does damage to your soul to even try to. The old Floq would probably have tried to engage for a little longer, eventually would have lost my temper at things like "think (sic)", and made things worse. Anyway, a clean, simple, nice-looking solution that I wish I'd thought of myself. --Floquenbeam (talk) 13:48, 18 September 2018 (UTC)

Deletion review for Suicide of Katelyn Davis

An editor has asked for a deletion review of Suicide of Katelyn Davis. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, speedily deleted it, or otherwise were interested in the page, you might want to participate in the deletion review.

Move of Helmith to Parasitic worm

I understand that your move of Helminths to Parasitic worm followed a page move discussion which was closed as move to "Parasitic worm". However , there is some debate about whether the non-admin closure reflected consensus and whether it should have been closed in the way that it was. Some discussion can be found here. It might be prudent to set the article back to its previous state to see whether we can indeed reach a consensus. Perhaps this time the proposed move should be from Helminths to Parasitic worm . Thanks.  Velella  Velella Talk   13:07, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Kompas (news program)

Amakuru, you blocked Dimas gilang on 9 September for repeatedly recreating Kompas (Kompas TV news program). A draft for this was then created at Draft:Kompas (Kompas TV news program). It appears that User:Dimas gilang then once again tried to circumvent this by creating Kompas (news program) on 16 Septmeber. Could you please delete Kompas (news program), after any necessary WP:HISTMERGEing of that to Draft:Kompas (Kompas TV news program) please? Thanks! --IJBall (contribs • talk) 16:34, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

@IJBall: thanks for letting me know. I've deleted the article you mentioned and salted it so it can't be created again, except with admin intervention. I don't think any HISTMERGE will be necessary as it doesn't look like anything from the article was merged into the draft in its lifetime. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 19:57, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

POTD of Trinidad and Tobago dollar

Hi Amakuru- Just a quick head's up that the image here doesn't match the one that is described to be the upcoming POTD. Thanks-Godot13 (talk) 01:53, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

@Godot13: ah yes, I switched the date on that one to give me more time to find sources for it. Fixed now. Thanks for pointing that out.  — Amakuru (talk) 06:27, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

Bury RM

Although I do think that a term this ambiguous is best served by a DAB, you're arguments about NOTDIC for Burial are probably stronger. However 2 editors have subsequently argued that it should be disambiguated. I actually think maybe it would have been a better idea to just reopen the RM (however I don't think I've seen this done before when a consensus has been reached). Feel free to start a move review. Crouch, Swale (talk) 17:55, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

@Crouch, Swale: it's probably a bit too late to start a move review now, and it's not like the close was in itself wrong... just that it would have been far better for it to be just reopened, as you say. I guess I'll just move on and leave it as is for now, it's not the end of the world. Maybe if I have time I'll see if I can gather evidence that Bury should be primary topic again and propose a move in the other direction. As evidence for why it matters whether you relist or start a new RM, see Talk:World Heritage site. I proposed to reverse a previous move a couple of months after the original, and the second RM was "no consensus" after vastly more conversation than the first, yet the closer refused to put it back to the previous long-term title. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 20:03, 26 September 2018 (UTC)
I don't think it matters how long after but the 2nd point about the close not being wrong I think is relevant. I just though that discussions aren't re opened if they have had the 7+ days and reached consensus. You probably know more than I do on that as you're an admin. It would be interesting to see the RM in reverse, I doubt that a move back to the base name would succeed but it would be interesting to see, similar to how Washington is a DAB. The guideline on NOTDIC isn't clear with PTOPIC, for example it notes at PRIMARYREDIRECT that Defamation is primary for Libel even though there is Libel (film) but "Bury" isn't an alternative phrase for Burial, so NOTDIC would probably up to a point apply. Crouch, Swale (talk) 14:00, 27 September 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 1 October 2018

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:44, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Welcome to the Months of African Cinema!

Greetings!

The AfroCine Project welcomes you to October, the first out of the two months which has been dedicated to improving contents that centre around the cinema of Africa, the Caribbean, and the diaspora.

This is a global online edit-a-thon, which is happening in at least 5 language editions of Wikipedia, including the English Wikipedia! Join us in this exciting venture, by helping to create or expand articles which are connected to this scope. Also remember to list your name under the participants section, if you haven't done so already.

On English Wikipedia, we would be recognizing Users who are able to achieve the following:

  • Overall winner (1st, 2nd, 3rd places)
  • Country Winners
  • Diversity winner
  • High quality contributors
  • Gender-gap fillers
  • Page improvers
  • Wikidata Translators

For further information about the contest, the recognition categories and how to participate, please visit the contest page here. For further inquiries, please leave comments on the contest talkpage or on the main project talkpage. See you around :).--Jamie Tubers (talk) 22:50, 03 October 2018 (UTC)

Rwandan Civil War

Hi Amakuru. I saw the ping to the featured article nomination and just wanted to let you know I am aware of it and appreciate the invitation. I consider myself an okay GA reviewer, but have virtually no experience with featured articles so am not sure how much help I would be. Everynow and then I go through stale GA reviews and sometimes take over any abandoned ones, which is how I came across your nomination. Otherwise I probably wouldn't have picked it up. I remember it being very well written, but feeling uncomfortable with the way it was weighted. I can't really explain it better than that sorry, I just felt that one side was written as being more at fault than the other. There was nothing overt about it and I am well aware that it must be extremely difficult to write articles of this nature and neutrality for Good Article purposes at least is a range. I also know next to nothing about the war (well more now since I read your article) and it is very possible that the way it was represented is more than fair. If I wanted to really satisfy myself it would involve a lot of source diving so I was quite glad when the original reviewer came back. I am reasonably busy at the moment, but will have another read through when I get time and make some comments. Good luck with the nomination. AIRcorn (talk) 23:51, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

@Aircorn: OK, thanks for your message, it's good to hear from you. And that's absolutely fine about the review, I just wanted to make sure you knew about the FA and if you had any further comments, since you were involved last year. If you do have time to comment that'll be great, otherwise no worries. All the best  — Amakuru (talk) 06:27, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

Banistmo

Hi

can I request you review and perhaps reopen the RM re Banistmo? [4]

I'm frankly appalled that the claim a basic simple research denotes "Primer Banco del Istmo" is outdated with no link given to exactly what this search is was apparently considered evidence, and that evidence then was expected to counter this vague claim. None should be needed, IMO. The onus of proof is on the proposers, and I see no evidence at all. Andrewa (talk) 23:31, 4 October 2018 (UTC)

  • @Andrewa: sorry, I meant to come to this today and didn't find the time. It seems like we have this discussion over and over, and don't get any closer to a resolution. Yes, the default outcome is no move if there is no consensus, but when it comes to a NAMECHANGES scenario the guidelines don't tell us that one or other side has the burden of proof. The arguments must be assessed on their merits. Tbhotch went off and did some research, and concluded that the new name is now the common name. He didn't reveal what his research was, so it's a weaker point in that regard, but I'm assuming per AGF that he did do the research and that it is likely valid. A brief Google search also seemed to confirm it. Your vote however, with all due respect, showed no sign of research at all. You were opposing purely because the other guys hadn't presented their evidence in black and white not because you had evidence to refute the claim. The ultimate goal here is to have the page at the title which best represents the subject for our readers, and if the official name has changed them there's a good chance the common name has also changed so it's our duty to investigate that and reach an active decision one way or the other.
    Anyway, all that aside, since you're not happy with the close and you're someone I like and respect, you have my permission to reverse my close and realist. Or I can do that sometime tomorrow if you prefer to wait. Most likely I'll add a support vote as well but I will marshall a bit more evidence first!  — Amakuru (talk) 23:21, 5 October 2018 (UTC)
    • Probably better if you do... I'm perfectly happy if it closes as move under NAMECHANGES but IMO that's a new argument, and also requires some evidence. Andrewa (talk) 04:11, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Template:POTD/2019-02-07

Hi, I chose that date because it is the date of publication of the magazine issue pictured. I planned to add more material to the blurb to mention the date of publication. I was thinking something like "This magazine cover, published 65 years ago today, featured a photo of the actress Lies Noor."--- Coffeeandcrumbs 11:55, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

@Coffeeandcrumbs: ah OK, thanks for letting me know. I've moved it back. And yes, that sounds a good blurb to use. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 12:00, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – October 2018

News and updates for administrators from the past month (September 2018).

Administrator changes

added Justlettersandnumbers • L235
removed Bgwhite • HorsePunchKid • J Greb • KillerChihuahua • Rami R • Winhunter

Interface administrator changes

added Cyberpower678 • Deryck Chan • Oshwah • Pharos • Ragesoss • Ritchie333

Oversight changes

removed Guerillero • NativeForeigner • Snowolf • Xeno

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • Partial blocks should be available for testing in October on the Test Wikipedia and the Beta-Cluster. This new feature allows admins to block users from editing specific pages and in the near-future, namespaces and uploading files. You can expect more updates and an invitation to help with testing once it is available.
  • The Foundations' Anti-Harassment Tools team is currently looking for input on how to measure the effectiveness of blocks. This is in particular related to how they will measure the success of the aforementioned partial blocks.
  • Because of a data centre test, you will be able to read but not edit the Wikimedia projects for up to an hour on 10 October. This will start at 14:00 (UTC). You might lose edits if you try to save during this time.

Arbitration

  • The Arbitration Committee has, by motion, amended the procedure on functionary inactivity.
  • The community consultation for 2018 CheckUser and Oversight appointments has concluded. Appointments will be made by October 11.
  • Following a request for comment, the size of the Arbitration Committee will be decreased to 13 arbitrators, starting in 2019. Additionally, the minimum support percentage required to be appointed to a two-year term on ArbCom has been increased to 60%. ArbCom candidates who receive between 50% and 60% support will be appointed to one-year terms instead.
  • Nominations for the 2018 Arbitration Committee Electoral Commission are being accepted until 12 October. These are the editors who help run the ArbCom election smoothly. If you are interested in volunteering for this role, please consider nominating yourself.
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 20:12, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

ANI

Information icon There is currently a discussion at Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. SchroCat (talk) 23:01, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

WP:TRM

The Admin's Barnstar
Thank you for taking note of my humble list at WP:TRM relating to errors on, or just about to be on, the main page. The diligence shown by you and your colleagues has resolved more than 500 issues in just 78 days. Your efforts are more appreciated than you can imagine. The Rambling Man (talk) 14:23, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
@The Rambling Man: many thanks, this means a lot, and I'm glad I can be useful in helping out with the daily grind of fixing the silliness that should never have got near the main page in the first place. I was a bit worried when I saw the "New Messages" box for this, because I thought it might be somebody complaining about something I've done again... I seem to have ruffled a few feathers recently . It is worth it in the end though, as long as we keep focusing on the dear readers and making sure the material they read is accurate and well-written.  — Amakuru (talk) 21:02, 8 October 2018 (UTC)
No problem at all. Admins have to make decisions, and most of the time they don't please most of the people. But that's just how it goes. Keep up the good work. The Rambling Man (talk) 07:06, 9 October 2018 (UTC)

Deletion my page Without Permittion

Deletion my page Without Permittion
why you deleted my page Kompas (news program) without permittion under user Dimas gilang (talk) 00:53, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

I Can't create the page

I Can't create the page
I can't create the page Kompas (news program) Dimas gilang (talk) 00:58, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for October 10

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Thomas Gainsborough, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page National Portrait Gallery (check to confirm | fix with Dab solver).

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 09:14, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

Study of a Young Woman

Please stop doing undiscussed, potentially controversial, and frankly rather bad, moves like this. There are 50 million other works called this, & removing the disam does not help our readers. Johnbod (talk) 18:48, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

@Johnbod: The title already redirected there, and apparently has no other articles of that name on Wikipedia, so if anything "Study of a Young Woman" is a more unique name than "Portrait of a Young Woman", which required a disambiguator. And this generally seems to be the common name, from the sources I've looked at. The gallery where it now hangs call it that anyway.[5] I can undo the move and start an RM if you really insist, but this seems like a much better name all round.  — Amakuru (talk) 18:52, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
PS - Compare Google searches: study of a young woman leads almost exclusively to this one (or the earrings painting), whereas portrait of a young woman has all sorts of other things. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 18:56, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Neither title is remotely "unique"! Surely you can see it is ridiculous even to introduce that word? Both need a disambiguator. Johnbod (talk) 19:01, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
@Johnbod: honestly no, I'm not seeing that at all. I'm not trying to be difficult, but there don't seem to be any other titles on Wikipedia which match "Study of a Young Woman". And as I say, that title has redirected to this page ever since it was created. I did not delete any disambiguation pages. Here is a search for the term: [6] So which other examples of Study of a Young Woman do you have in mind, which we need to disambiguate against? Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 19:24, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
OBVIOUSLY, you need to "" the search term! try this - or an image search. Johnbod (talk) 23:46, 10 October 2018 (UTC)

how?

How can an auto-confirmed perform G6/suppression while moving pages? —usernamekiran(talk) 00:25, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Usernamekiran, see WP:MOR Galobtter (pingó mió) 06:18, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
@Galobtter: thanks. —usernamekiran(talk) 06:21, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

Strange to think...

That CCFC were once a bigger club than NCFC that you could buy Belluz like that.

What an appalling decline. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 16:21, 11 October 2018 (UTC)

@Dweller: Indeed, 34 years in the top flight from when Jimmy Hill took us up in 1967, that was the only world I knew growing up. But it was spending too much on the likes of Lee Hughes and Craig Bellamy, as well as a white elephant stadium, that led to our downfall. Financial ruin which led to a takeover by a hedge fund who couldn't care less about football. At least there will be an uptick in that chart when it's next updated though, I was at Wembley in May when we won the playoffs and we're back in league one again. You count any blessings you can get...  — Amakuru (talk) 16:35, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Yup. In terms of Bellamy, I saw his debut and first goal and thought he was by a margin the best young player I'd ever seen. Icy cool in front of goal. Shame he couldn't keep his head more generally. Maddison is now the best young Norwich player I've seen... and there's a Coventry connection again. Funny, 3 of the best, when you include Huckerby. --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 21:04, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Oh yes, Maddison... funnily enough, despite all the boardroom drama in recent years, including having to play home games at Northampton for one season, the youth academy has still continued to churn out good promising young players. Several of them formed the backbone of the promotion-winning side last season. They all get relentlessly sold on of course, if they prove to be any good. Another Norwich–Coventry connection is Dion Dublin, I think he saw out his final years as a player with you guys. Another legend of course, he very nearly made the England squad for the 98 world cup while playing for Coventry. We had quite the team back then with him and Huckerby, Whelan, Hadji and so on.  — Amakuru (talk) 21:14, 11 October 2018 (UTC)
Dublin, Hucks and Maddison, and probably some others, but not Belluz: Norwich City F.C. Player of the Season. Full list of connections is here: [7] --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 07:56, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
Yes, I was seeing quite a few familiar names even in the Player of the Season list... Greg Downs, Andy Marshall, Kevin Drinkell. I wonder if these are normal numbers for overlap between two clubs, or a bit of an anomaly. I haven't heard him called Belluz before... we used to have a somewhat rude variant of that, but that was because he wasn't playing well for us at all. I have no idea what went wrong, since he seemed to do well everywhere else.  — Amakuru (talk) 08:35, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
He's a strange character. This article by Iwan Roberts just yesterday is interesting on this subject: [8] --Dweller (talk) Become old fashioned! 09:22, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

Science-fiction film?

Regarding the "box-office bomb" re-titling per MOS:HYPHEN, do you think that means Wikipedia should write science-fiction film instead? I've seen this writing on occasion elsewhere, but "science fiction film" seems more common. Worth a RM discussion? Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 14:11, 12 October 2018 (UTC)

@Erik: hmm, that's a good question, and one I haven't thought about before. It looks like almost all sources use "science fiction film" on the internet though, so it might be one of those cases where we decide to make an exception. I do note that it's almost always "sci-fi" though.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:34, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
Could the same not be said for "box office <word>", though? Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 17:38, 13 October 2018 (UTC)

close at List of cities in Israel

Hello. Your close at Talk:List of cities seems to be at odds with several Wikipedia policies, among them WP:V (no source has ever been presented that supports any of the settlements being in Israel) and WP:ONUS, which says effectively disputed material is by default out without a consensus. Can you please explain how either of these policies dont apply? nableezy - 21:23, 21 October 2018 (UTC)

@Nableezy: Well, clearly a body of editors at the discussion felt that the verified fact that Israel considers them to be its settlements satisfied WP:V. And as for WP:ONUS, the wording says "The onus to achieve consensus for inclusion is on those seeking to include disputed content." However, that does not apply in this case, as the disputed content was already in place in the article for many years prior to the recent dispute. Given that fact, and the fact that it wasn't disputed in all that time, there was clearly a tacit consensus for its inclusion. I have absolutely no opinion on whether it is right or wrong to include the cities, but there very clearly was no consensus, and it is the policy at WP:NOCONSENSUS says that "In discussions of proposals to add, modify or remove material in articles, a lack of consensus commonly results in retaining the version of the article as it was prior to the proposal or bold edit." which is what I've done here. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 21:29, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
I support your edit rationale in this, however you should self revert as the article is under 1rr per ARBPIA (applies regardless of page notice to any article in scope). I will note that Nableezy also possibly violated 1rr when they restored the tag.Icewhiz (talk) 21:55, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
@Icewhiz: done. What a hullabaloo, eh? I'm glad I don't work in Middle-eastern articles or Donald Trump regularly, it seems like you have to treat on egg-shells every step of the way.  — Amakuru (talk) 21:59, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
Aye, a bit like porcupine coitus - Trump with consensus required is even trickier.Icewhiz (talk) 22:02, 21 October 2018 (UTC)
A body of editors believe? Can you show me where a single source supporting that has been included? Also, the POV template has very specific criteria to remove, none of which is you closing an RFC as no-consensus. You say above "a lack of consensus commonly results in retaining the version of the article as it was prior to the proposal or bold edit." I asked specifically about WP:ONUS which says disputed content is out absent a consensus to retain. You very obviously see no consensus to retain, so how are you ignoring that? And please restore the tag, I intend to open a further RFC on the matter, and there is very clearly a dispute as to the neutrality of including colonies outside of a country's borders as being in that country, something that seemingly every editor that actually addressed the topic acknowledged. nableezy - 01:15, 22 October 2018 (UTC)
I see you have done that and Icewhiz has helpfully undid your self-revert. Ill note you have explicitly allowed what can rightfully be called propaganda to be presented in an encyclopedia article as though it were factual, and further you suppress any warning as to the fact that there may even be a dispute about said propaganda. nableezy - 01:19, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Turkish capture of Smyrna

Hello

I see that you previously closed a move request for "Liberation of İzmir" to "Turkish capture of Smyrna", yet this seems incorrect to me.

It is argued there that the city having a large Greek population means that Greek control could not be considered occupation. This claim has no basis as those citizens were still Ottoman citizens - it does not matter whether or not they supported Greek control. It is a matter of definition and according to Merriam-Webster, liberation is "the act of liberating", which means "to free (something, such as a country) from domination by a foreign power". The city was invaded by Greece in the Greek landing at Smyrna 3 years before, therefore placing the city under domination of a foreign power. The fact that this control was somehow made valid by "an international treaty" does not erase the events before that and change the fact that the city was invaded by Greece in 1919.

If Turkey invaded Germany, would it matter at all that there are millions of Turks there who might support the Turkish occupation? If Turkey then made the defeated Germany sign a concession treaty, would that simply erase the fact that they invaded Germany? Of course not. Then if Germany took back their land, that would be called liberation as they would have freed the country "from domination by a foreign power."

One user also referenced an article by Neyzi to show that liberation is a POV term, yet that citation only says that the Greeks call it a "disaster" and the Turks call it "liberation". Just because one side involved calls it liberation, that does not make the term "liberation" itself POV in any way. As I have mentioned with the definition of the term, it is a completely objective term that should be used here.

I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this.

-Junk2711 (talk) 20:14, 22 October 2018 (UTC)

Template:POTD/2018-10-24

FYI: the protected version of Template:POTD/2018-10-24 has already been created by a bot before you switched images. So the image that previously occupied that date will be shown on the Main Page... unless you update that too. Armbrust The Homunculus 14:59, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

@Armbrust: oh crap, I actually thought about that but for some reason I thought it is the 22nd today rather than the 23rd, so the protected version would not be created until later this evening. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.  — Amakuru (talk) 15:33, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

Can you help me?

Hi Amakuru. I got acquainted with your contribution on improving articles in the Wikipedia, and it is impressive. Would you be able to check the article Draft:Non-compromised Pendulum which was written by me? It was already reviewed by experienced users, however it was moved to draft for administrator’s check. Aspireforintelligence (talk) 11:06, 25 October 2018 (UTC)

Thanks...

...for fixing the sfn problem. I had tried and tried and tried to fix it, but couldn’t figure it out. Onceinawhile (talk) 13:42, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

@Onceinawhile: yeah they can be a pain, those things! I think the {{sfnref}} template is your friend in this instance. Cheers  — Amakuru (talk) 13:50, 26 October 2018 (UTC)
@Onceinawhile: oh, and someone's pushed it out to prep 4 now. I guess they thought it wasn't Halloweeny enough for the 31st.  — Amakuru (talk) 13:55, 26 October 2018 (UTC)

The Signpost: 28 October 2018

* Read this Signpost in full * Single-page * Unsubscribe * MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 19:09, 28 October 2018 (UTC)


Review for English/French speaker

Hello Amakuru. Please excuse me if I am doing something improper, as I am new to Wikipedia. I am contacting you because you are a speaker of both English and French. I have created the page Draft:Pierre_Jovanovic nearly 2 months ago, and I am waiting for a review. Could you please consider having a look at it ? And again, please excuse me if my request is improper. I am learning the ropes. Best regards. Micha Jo (talk) 16:33, 30 October 2018 (UTC)

@Micha Jo: I see that Andrewa has offered to help you so I'll leave you to it. Good luck, and no worries about asking me for help. I'm happy to be of assistance if you need anything in the future!  — Amakuru (talk) 21:55, 30 October 2018 (UTC)
Thanks for your message. It is sincerely appreciated. Kind regards. Micha Jo (talk) 08:34, 31 October 2018 (UTC)

WikiCup 2018 November newsletter

The WikiCup is over for another year! Our Champion this year is South Carolina Courcelles (submissions), who over the course of the competition has amassed 147 GAs, 111 GARs, 9 DYKs, 4 FLs and 1 ITN. Our finalists were as follows:

  1. South Carolina Courcelles (submissions)
  2. Wales Kosack (submissions)
  3. Hel, Poland Kees08 (submissions)
  4. SounderBruce (submissions)
  5. Scotland Cas Liber (submissions)
  6. Marshall Islands Nova Crystallis (submissions)
  7. Republic of Texas Iazyges (submissions)
  8. United States Ceranthor (submissions)


All those who reached the final win awards, and awards will also be going to the following participants:

Awards will be handed out in the coming weeks. Please be patient!

Congratulations to everyone who participated in this year's WikiCup, whether you made it to the final rounds or not, and particular congratulations to the newcomers to the WikiCup who have achieved much this year. Thanks to all who have taken part and helped out with the competition.

Next year's competition begins on 1 January. You are invited to sign up to participate; it is open to all Wikipedians, new and old. The WikiCup judges will be back in touch over the coming months, and we hope to see you all in the 2019 competition. Until then, it only remains to once again congratulate our worthy winners, and thank all participants for their involvement! If you wish to start or stop receiving this newsletter, please feel free to add or remove yourself from Wikipedia:WikiCup/Newsletter/Send. Sturmvogel 66 (talk · contribs · email), Godot13 (talk · contribs · email), Cwmhiraeth (talk · contribs · email) and Vanamonde93 (talk · contribs · email).

Administrators' newsletter – November 2018

News and updates for administrators from the past month (October 2018).

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • Partial blocks is now available for testing on the Test Wikipedia. The new functionality allows you to block users from editing specific pages. Bugs may exist and can be reported on the local talk page or on Meta. A discussion regarding deployment to English Wikipedia will be started by community liaisons sometime in the near future.
  • A user script is now available to quickly review unblock requests.
  • The 2019 Community Wishlist Survey is now accepting new proposals until November 11, 2018. The results of this survey will determine what software the Wikimedia Foundation's Community Tech team will work on next year. Voting on the proposals will take place from November 16 to November 30, 2018. Specifically, there is a proposal category for admins and stewards that may be of interest.

Arbitration

  • Eligible editors will be invited to nominate themselves as candidates in the 2018 Arbitration Committee Elections starting on November 4 until November 13. Voting will begin on November 19 and last until December 2.
  • The Arbitration Committee's email address has changed to arbcom-en@wikimedia.org. Other email lists, such as functionaries-en and clerks-l, remain unchanged.
Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 07:18, 3 November 2018 (UTC)

Opinion needed

Hello. Would you be interested to say your opinion about the issue raised here — Talk:List of heads of state of Angola#Requested move 2 November 2018? Thanks in advance. --Sundostund (talk) 01:42, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

POTD/2018-11-11

I am not someone who believes that every POTD on November 11 should be related to World War I, but surely the 100th anniversary of the Armistice should be commemorated by something relevant?

If you simply disagree, fine, just leave it. If you have something to say, please reply here. --76.69.46.228 (talk) 10:12, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Hi 76.69.46.228 and thanks for your message. That's a good idea re having a special POTD for the armistice day centenary. I have reused an old FP which was last featured on the main page in 2007, which I think is OK even though for a special occasion one. See Template:POTD/2018-11-11. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 12:48, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

FYI:

File:Pied-winged swallow (Hirundo leucosoma).jpg‎ is now used on Swallow (which isn't a stub). Armbrust The Homunculus 21:50, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

@Armbrust: oh good, thanks for letting me know. I'll slot it in somewhere then.  — Amakuru (talk) 22:04, 8 November 2018 (UTC)

Luther Monument (or (Luther monument?)

Thank you for attention for this unusual piece of art. I am not happy with the title format, because I believe we can either say Luther monument or Luther Monument, one being a generic name, the other the title of an artwork. I am not happy with infobox monument unless we can distinguish designer (only Rietschel) and artists (he and the others). We also need the image larger, or don't see a thing. Is there a parameter image_upright, or do we have to cheat as in the other? Please find out, I have more already than I can handle today. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 12:28, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

@Gerda Arendt: my change in italics was simply to make this monument consistent with most other monuments in the category, which do not have italic text. Similarly, though, most of them do have a capitalised title. See for example Karl Marx Monument, Goethe–Schiller Monument, Bismarck Monument (Bad Kissingen) etc. I think the question of whether it's a proper name or not (and hence capitalised) is independent of whether it should be italicised. On the infobox issue, I have restored the previous version now so that the pic and designers appear as they did prior to my change. I primarily changed the infobox so that the italic text could be eliminated, but I've found that I can do that even on infobox art by using an appropriate parameter. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 14:32, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Thank you, on all accounts. Feel understood which wasn't often in the last two weeks ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:13, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
When cleaning up after the move of the Beethoven Monument (Bonn) I found some of these things are called Memorial, and some statuery. I think monument is good in English, although Memorial comes closer in meaning to the German Denkmal. Nunances are still hard for me. - Hint: when you move, check if a page is linked in a navbox or two. Redirects don't work in navboxes, - piping is possible if needed. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 15:43, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
@Gerda Arendt: I agree it's difficult re names and capitalisation. After many years working in that area I still find it hard to really work out what the community thinks in this area, as can be seen at the current never-ending debate regarding the capitalisation of World Heritage site. Very often consistency with existing articles, or a rigid following of the common names in sources, is the best we can hope for because there are no hard and fast rules. Re the navboxes I'm not sure what you mean by saying redirects don't work? Looking at the prior version of Template:Ludwig van Beethoven it just appears as a link, and when you click it the redirect is followed as it should be. I agree that it's good to have the links matching, so thanks for changing that. On an unrelated note, you may be interested to hear that my orchestra is playing The Planets and Piano Concerto (Grieg) in our concert next week. It's an enjoyable programme, and particularly so given Holst's connections to London... we performed recently at St Paul's Girls School where he was music director for a time and where he composed The Planets. Thanks  — Amakuru (talk) 21:33, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Navboxes: One of their features is that the article on which you are is bold and black, which helps to find it in a large navbox. That feature doesn't work for redirects, - try it. - The Planets - a great piece, also in the version for two pianos. Thanks for sharing. We'll sing in choir tomorrow, Schubert and Mendelssohn, will have to update my playlist. But first a DYK nom and another step in a longish FAC review. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 21:43, 9 November 2018 (UTC)
Good luck with that! And thanks for the navbox tip. That's very true and I'll bear it in mind next time.  — Amakuru (talk) 21:52, 9 November 2018 (UTC)

Queue 1

Hi, are you leaving that 240-character Noel Phillips hook to balance out the page? Or will you switch it to my shorter suggestion at WP:TRM:

As I said, very stressful going here. Both submarine articles are not up to snuff and I am agreeing more and more with TRM's assessment that reviews are not being done thoroughly, even by veteran editors. Right now I would just like to ask you to alternate the bios and non-bios in the set, as it appears only 7 will be running. Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 23:13, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
@Yoninah: I can alternate them up to a point, but if we're to keep the picture hook (the poppy) at the top, then there'll have to be two bios next to each other at the end. What's your view on O'Byrne? Is the hook now cited? I'm not sure which of the three is even proposed at present so haven't checked it in detail. Thanks, and kudos for the work you're putting into getting this sorted last minute.  — Amakuru (talk) 23:18, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
2 bios or 2 non-bios in a row is fine; 3 is not. I'm going now to review the work done on the National Day of Remembrance, though I still hope one of the submarines can be salvaged. Yoninah (talk) 23:20, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Hey, what happened? The set is ending on a World War II hook? Please put the rubber-binoculars trade back in the quirky slot and bury Herman Pines somewhere in the set. Yoninah (talk) 23:30, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
@Yoninah:  Done  — Amakuru (talk) 23:35, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Thanks. It's way past my bedtime, but I'll wait to see if the submarines resurface in time :) Yoninah (talk) 23:37, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
@Yoninah: Indeed, me too. The kids are doing some sort of remembrance day parade with their scout group too in the morning so will have to be up early too. Although I will be able to go to it armed with lots of WW1 facts that I "did not know" before today...  — Amakuru (talk) 23:44, 10 November 2018 (UTC)
Template:Did you know nominations/O'Byrne-class submarine was just approved. Could you sub it in for Herman Pines, and I'll put Pines in a different prep? Thanks for all your help tonight. You were cool as a cucumber! Yoninah (talk) 00:04, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Really, thanks again for rescuing that set. I put the Herman Pines hook in Prep 6. I realize that DYK credits were already posted at the Herman Pines talk page (I went ahead and deleted that), on the nominator's page, and also in the DYK Archive. Tomorrow, would you be able to delete the last two? Thanks, Yoninah (talk) 00:21, 11 November 2018 (UTC)
Sure thing. And thanks to you and the others as well. A great bit of late night collaboration!  — Amakuru (talk) 00:25, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

AfroCine: The Months of African Cinema Continues….

Greetings!

Thank you very much for signing up to participate in the Months of African Cinema global contest/edit-a-thon, and thank you for your contributions so far.

It is already the middle of the contest and a lot have been achieved already! We have been able to get over 200 articles created in over seven (7) languages! The figures soars to up to a thousand, if Wikidata entries are included. Furthermore, there have been about 5 in-person gatherings of Wikipedians in different countries across the world to create articles about African(a) cinema!

We are very excited about what has been achieved so far, but your contributions are still needed to further exceed all expectations! Let’s create more articles before the end of this contest, which is this November!!!

  • Article suggestions can be found here. You can also add to this list.
  • Some notable reliable sources for African cinema can be found here. Again, this list needs expansion.
  • Interested in Wikidata translation? check out the Occupation Drive, which is being led by Wiki Loves Women, in support of the contest and the project!
  • Please remember to list articles you have created or improved in the Article Achievements section of the contest page, so that they can be easily tracked.

Thank you once again for being part of this global event!

Kind regards.--Jamie Tubers (talk) 22:50, 10 November 2018 (UTC)

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