User talk:Ahoerstemeier/Archive 9

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Klingon

Sorry I didn't respond to your message earlier. It seems the vandalism at tlh has stopped now, but if you decide you do still need adminship there, the quickest place to ask is either on IRC or at m:requests for permissions. Angela. 01:44, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)

hi, sorry for having to edit this message to write my own, but i didnt know how to open a new one. i'm sorry for my vandalism on the dwight eisenhower page. i didnt know that if i just edited it, it would show up on the site. i thought someone woulde check it. But thanks for letting me know.

Gumba gumba/GumbaGumba

When you block likely reincarnations of this user, please bear in mind that he uses an NTL proxy shared by many and so, if possible, make blocks of short duration. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 10:07, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

How can anyone without direct access to the log files know which IP a user has? Even in the block log the auto-blocked IPs are not listed as numerical. And anyway IIRC the timeout for these autoblocked-IPs is 24h, even if the user is blocked longer - maybe that default/maximum value should be set a bit lower? andy 11:07, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well the reason I know is because every time you block him you block me! :) -Tony Sidaway|Talk 11:44, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

But as you're an admin yourself, at least you can unblock yourself. Still annoying, but better than for a normal user, then you'd be locked out completely. If Bug 550 will be "fixed" the problem would disappear. andy 11:50, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Well the good news is that this vandal, like most "for the hell of it" vandals, gives up as soon as he's blocked. A relatively brief block is likely to work just as well as a longer one. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 12:03, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yom Kippur War is the Israeli name for the 1973 war

Is this an Israeli encyclopedia?--Dogtag 15:55, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

"Lord Hudson"

With the best of intentions, you fixed the "Lord Hudson" redirect to Carl Hudson -- but that's complete claptrap. Take a look at its VfD, and the VfD of a number of closely related pages. They're so awful they're almost funny. PS User:Dexillon is very keen to add a mention of the fictional Lord Seal to Spilsby. I'm about to turn off the computer for the evening, but somebody might like to keep an eye on this page. -- Hoary 12:57, 2005 Apr 7 (UTC)

Skver (Hasidic dynasty)

I was in the middle of checking this with Jayjg when it was deleted. He confirmed that it was genuine, and pointed me towards two editors who could expand and confirm it. I undeleted it, added relevant templates, and contacted the two editors. I hope that that's OK. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 17:21, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Bundeslaender germany bv.png

Hi,

could you please enter details describing sources needed by GNU Free Documentation License to file Bundeslaender germany bv.png (or others with german federal states).

Please update the info also in Commons.

BR, Ondrejk

Thanks

Thanks for reverting the vandalism of my user page. You did it so fast, I didn't even notice it happened until I checked the history just now. Mgm|(talk) 11:11, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC)

Catalan I does not change to E

Thanks for your English corrections to the article 2399_Terradas. I reverted the "E" between familly names to "I" as using this letter is a Catalan tradition and unlike the Spanish "Y" it never changes to "E" as you can learn here: [I] and here [Esteban Terradas i Illa] --213.176.161.201 13:43, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I changed it to "e" as MSN Encarta has an article about him with that spelling (however only the spanish edition, [4]), and also because of Meanings of asteroid names (2001-2500) list him with "e". But as you now created the article about him as well we can circumvent the problem with a simple redirect, so both spelling will lead to the same article. andy 16:10, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)


Advice on how to deal with a spammer

I am sorry if my editing is not top notch but i am usually just reading. It appears like this user, user:Oren_Shatz, is using wikipedia for his own seo company benefits. I deleted one of his links from argentina two times already and would like to get some advice from you if there is a more efficient way to deal with those kind of people. 21:58, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

User:66.194.40.3

Hi, I see your on admin duty. Could you block the IP-address above? This one thinks he's pretty smart, he has removed his entry twice from WP:VIP. Thanks. Sjakkalle 11:58, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Kinaree

I only today noticed you'd suggested a picture - thanks :-) — KayEss | talk 11:28, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome, I browsed your todo list and noticed that I had already seen one Kinaree pic on the German wikipedia. Hope you'll find more time for Wikipedia again, because the Himaphan forest has many characters to describe. andy 12:18, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

sorry

sorry it was my brother he is a idiot

Thanks

Thank you for reverting the vandalism to my user page. Mel Etitis (Μελ Ετητης) 13:29, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Provincial seals of Thailand

I completed uploading all of Northern provinces' seals to commons. Thanks. --อนันต์ 10:36, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Good, so far I only uploaded them to commons when I create a new stub for the Thai wikipedia and want to include them there - to give the Thai wikipedians a good starting point for changwat articles. Sadly the only thing I can add there are lists, which is can create by copy-and-paste. andy 11:32, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Oops

Sorry, I think you were a few seconds faster deleting Clare Brandabur than I was in nominating it. if you're on top on the New Pages Patrol, I will leave you to it. Sjakkalle 11:27, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Don't worry, continue to mark them, it's better to delete them twice than have one of these editing experiments slip through the new page partol and stay in the database until someone stumbles on it. andy 11:29, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Re: Sockpuppeting

Ahoerstemeier, you may block me and block me, but I will not stop until I have made my point, which, by the way, is available in Pavel Vozenilek's talk page. See Whodunit. You may as well stop wasting our time and read the post and then we can get down to business. Post me on my talk page if you feel like it. Whowilldothat 15:16, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

And what is your point? That you can recreate accounts to vandalize, and keep well-meaning admins from more useful tasks by keeping them busy to cleanup your mess? That everyone can vandalize articles? It is the philosophy to keep this site as oppen as possible, even though some would be more happy with a more restricted access, see e.g. meta:Anonymous users should not be allowed to edit articles. Vandalism is usually quickly fixed anyway, the current model has worked fine for all the time of the existance of this site. You may also read Wikipedia:Replies to common objections. andy 15:36, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Incidentally, yes, that is my point. Or a variation of it. My point is that with this open society, it is very possible that a group of not-well-meaning people can come along and disrupt Wikipedia, keeping well-meaning admins from useful tasks, and causing disturbances in the whole site, eventually leading to its downfall. My little experiment with sockpuppeting has just shown this point. You try to discourage me by putting me to shame. But what if these theoretical vandals have no shame? Then Wikipedia will be as good as gone, and goodbye, free editing. Vandalism is very quickly fixed, but only in small, isolated outbreaks. What if this large group comes along with the intention of harming Wikipedia? They will be much harder to stop because: 1) they have a common goal, 2) they might be able to circumvent the blocks/bans, 3) they will stop at nothing. And given the infinite amount of letter-number permutations, they could do this until Kingdom come. Better be prepared than unprepared, I say. Although I do not know what influence you have in Wikipedia, you could address this situation. Great things began with little ideas in small men, after all. That is all. Whowilldothat 15:52, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
There is always the version history still available so there is always a way to get back to the last good version. And IF Wikipedia comes under such an attack, the developers can set the database to read-only, or disable anonymous edits, or maybe implement the need for a verified email address for account creation. But so far this wasn't necessary, and hopefully won't be necessary in the future, as the Nupedia project died partially due to the very closed user base. BTW: Here's another page for you to read: Wikipedia:Don't disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point andy 16:18, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Understood. But what if these theoretical vandals break the 3RR continously, further disrupting Wikipedia? At least it's comforting to know that the developers can fix this up in case it happens. And by the way, I have been trying to make my point for a long time now, but nobody listened. So I guessed I had to take some drastic action. Tschus - Whowilldothat 16:32, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
You'd have received the same answer if you just posted your concern in the Wikipedia:Village Pump, or maybe the Wikipedia:mailing list, without annoying people and disrupting the site by vandalism. It normally isn't worth to monitor vandals in more detail, except to just revert the damage and give them a warning, as most are just school kids discovering they can put nasty things about their classmates here. And to answer the 3RR question - if an article receives too many reverts it gets protected, so the combatants have to discuss their problem about it. andy 08:22, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The 3RR reply: why not protect every page in Wikipedia? Then nobody would be able to edit it and Wikipedia wouldn't be free anymore. Praktisch, oder? But, nobody listens to prophecies until the bad stuff actually occurs. Maybe I'll just sit tight and wait for a giant swarm of vandalbots wrecks Wikipedia. Das wäre SEHR effektiv! Whowilldothat 12:16, 28 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Math constants

Ive protected them with the comment: "saving from (hasty) deletion till I can populate". Thats all I can say for now. I understand that having stubs is inconvenient for deletionists, but people should bear with, and reserve the speedy delete for vandalism or articles with no potential. Thanks, SV|t 16:34, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Redirect

I noticed your redirect of Daffadown Dilly which was quite appropriate. However I wrote the note in response to a requested article. Could this cause difficulties later on? ping 08:07, 29 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks a bunch for reverting my user page from the vandalism. Zscout370 (talk) 12:28, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing the kenya provinces. I knew there was a better way, I didn't know what it was. - SiOfUmbar

misleading information

I am unsure why you deleted correct information and left information that is false on the burglary page?

The facts presented on the page that were incorrect:

"Many other U.S. states treat burglary as a more serious crime when it occurs at night; California, for example, prosecutes nighttime burglary as "burglary in the first degree" and daytime burglary as "burglary in the second degree," under most circumstances."

I pointed out that this information was incorrect so that an innocent person using Wikipedia would not be mislead with false information.

I then added the factual statement:

"Burglary is entering any habitable structure with the intent of A. commiting larceny(theft), whether it be petty or grand, or B. any felony. If there is no intent upon entering the structure, there is no burglary. First degree burglary in California is reserved for any burglary to a residential structure e.g. house, apartment. Second degree burglary is all other types of burglary, e.g. businesses, vehicles, containers."

I am just unsure why my update was deleted, and I was wondering why you would want incorrect information posted on a resource that is relied upon by many people across the globe.

I am a practioner of law, and am certified by the State Bar of California. I feel that the editing you have done is a disservice to the faithful patrons that utilize this great site and that providing unfactual information to your clients is not something they would be fond of.

OK, but note: in the UK the crime, if done during the daytime, is "housebreaking." At night it is "burglary." Or that's the way it was when the terms made a meaningful distinction. Minasbeede 19:29, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

commons images missing info

Hi - I just found some uploads of yours on the commons that are missing all info, most importantly a license and categorization. Have a look at commons:Image:Amphoe 4809.png and commons:Image:Amphoe Nakhon Phanom.png, for example - but there are probably some more. Please add the info! Oh, ich könnte ja auch deutsch sprechen. Naja, egal, Gewohheit;) -- commons:User:Duesentrieb 02:14, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

I have no idea why I forgot the description for those file, normally I always add it directly. But it's fixed now. andy 16:03, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Possible impostors

A search of the user list turned up two possible impostors for you: Ahoerstemeyer (talk • contribs) and Ahoesrtemeier (talk • contribs), neither of which have any edits yet. I just thought you might want to take a look at them and deal with then at your discretion. – ClockworkSoul 02:13, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Blocked them, together with the new imposter Ahoerstameier (talk • contribs • page moves • block user • block log). I cannot see any valid contributions forthcoming from someone choosing that username. andy 18:47, 11 May 2005 (UTC)

Recent changes

Hey, I notice you doing a lot of RC patrolling recently (and getting impersonated a lot!), so I'd like to point you towards User:CryptoDerk/CDVF and if you feel like it, give it a try and give me some feedback. Cheers. CryptoDerk 20:43, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

Marla Ruzicka

Ahoerstemeier:

I have crossed your path on numerous Thailand articles.

User 198.8.3.35 & 198.8.3.36 has been hammering the Marla Ruzicka article numerous times by deleting all External Links and replacing them with a vicious, hateful, no-value link.

I want this user to be blocked.

Can you help?

--AStanhope 01:28, 6 May 2005 (UTC)


I though so. Astanhope regards as "vicious, hateful, no-value", links from a website with 2 million hits per day & a roster of national columnists. He appears more interested in maintaining a shrine to a politically simpatico soulmate than in disseminating accurate information.

Achilles 11 May

The Marla Ruzicka article does not conform to the NPOV principal. The young woman was a political activist, & the article, & external links make little or no mention of her highly debatable political activities. When an external link is added to provide some clarity & balance, it is deleted as "hate speech" & "vandalism". Also deleted are the POV dispute alerts. Clearly someone is interested in maintaining a shrine to Ms Ruzicka, not in disseminating information. Astanhope has deemed that no link to Frontpagemag is to be allowed because it is "fringe" & engages in "hate speech"-- the Frontpage site receives over 2million hits per day, & has some of the most prominent columnists in the country. I don't believe the article is 'neutral', or even fair.

One reason given for excluding the link was "factual inaccuracy" in that it said Ruzicka had been in Iraq prior to the war, with the Code Pink org. Astanhope denied this, & was mistaken Here are 2 sources of confirmation--

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory?id=679085&page=3

& the horse's mouth--

http://www.codepinkalert.org/

News column on right side of page-- "Marla Ruzicka, who went on CODEPINK's first trip to Iraq and decided to stay to help the Iraqi people"

Achilles 13 May

--- I am not interested in that article, so please keep your NPOV discussion to the place it belong: Talk:Marla Ruzicka. Please note that I only got involved when you started to vandalize the article, because you did not succeed to get that link into the article, and I only reverted the actual vandalism edits. Everything else is the question wether the article is NPOV, or a allegedly hate-speech link can be included, and needs to be discussed. andy 11:49, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Sukru Saracoglu Stadium

Hi, It isn't nonsense to name it as "Sukru Saracoglu Stadium", but nonsense to name it as "Şükrü Saracoğlu Stadyumu", because it is hard to type in the latter. Think of it! CeeGee 21:23, May 14, 2005 (UTC)

The problem wasn't the spelling, the problem was that you did a copy-and-paste page move instead of a real move, which would destroy the editing history. You might notice that the article now still resides at the location without the diacrytics, even though that's also because those characters aren't yet possible in article titles. andy 10:55, 15 May 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism

Thanks for that, it was getting a bit hectic!--Rjstott 11:33, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Tashkent

Hallo Herr Andreas, wie geht es ihnen? User:Danny made a map of Tashkent in Thai! on [5] now we only need to have the article written. Are you a father already btw? Waerth 00:44, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

You better tell th:User:Ungvichian, who is most active with the countries in Thai. I only do the tables for the Thai provinces there, hoping that those will attract locals to extend them to become full articles. In case you haven't seen it yet - following you recent stubs on Thai rivers I have created more elaborate version of the Tapi, bang Pa Kong and Pa Sak river, so there's some material for you to translate. Also don't forget to monitor my edits on Dutch, there's probably something to fix for them, e.g. the new disambiguations I created. And the baby is scheduled for the 31st, so maybe I will be less active here for some time after that... andy 11:21, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
Cool good luck! I will look at your edits, but they are 100% correct usually ;) You could become an honorary Dutchman. I have one question ..... do you eat mayo with your French Fries .... Waerth 23:42, 20 May 2005 (UTC)
Thanks :-) But I prefer Ketchup, and I'm also no fan of the Dutch Frikandel, I prefer the German Currywurst. :-) Actually, I am just good at copy-and-paste, trying to find a very similar sentence and then simply exchange the one word. Similar to how I create stubs about the Thai provinces in the Thai wikipedia. andy 15:18, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

User:Wzk...

...came back and immediately engaged in page move vandalism on your and my user page. I've fixed it and blocked him for good (indefinitely). I only mention this because last time, your short block apparently overrode ClockworkSoul's permanent block. Lupo 08:50, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Buddhadasa Bhikkhu Thai Script

I recently wrote an article about Buddhadasa Bhikkhu but I've lost my source material which spelled his name in Thai (I also don't know how to upload Thai-language scripts). I was wondering if you had access to his name in Thai and could upload the scripts to the page. In addition, any other info on his life is also greatly appreciated. Best, --Alabamaboy 18:21, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

Great, I planned to write about him for quite some time since I learned about his significance after visiting Wat Suan Mok once. But I haven't searched much for sources yet, and as I am no Buddhist I worry to misinterpret his teachings. But the Thai spelling I could find for you: พุทธทาสภิกขุ; uploading Thai script is relatively easy, at least on Windows with Mozilla/Firefox it all works automatically once you have a font for Thai. andy 18:50, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

Genovese crime family

Hello Ahoerstemeier. I'm sorry to trouble you but may I ask why the Genovese crime family article was reverted to Genovese Family ? The article, which was apparently already incorrectly redirected to another article, seems to be correct as per the consistancy of the existing Mafia crime families and wikipedia naming convention. 152.163.100.132 05:18, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Because it was a copy-and-paste page move, which destroys the editing history. If you create a user account, you can move the article in correct way, or you can list it at Wikipedia:Requested moves. andy 12:54, 22 May 2005 (UTC)
Ahh..I see. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Thanks. 64.12.116.132 00:52, 23 May 2005 (UTC)

Could you please block out editing from this IP address?

Hello there; I'm not sure who to ask this of, but this is a school IP address in which kids frequently use the internet and find it "funny" to modify wikipedia- Is it possible to block this IP address from editing but not viewing? If you could do so, you'd be doing a great thing and helping wikipedia out by stopping a few hundred kids from being able to edit pages at random for cheap laughs.

Sorry to intrude here, but to say the same thing I said on your talk page mr. anon, we won't block public proxies for more than an hour or so, even if the proxy are shared by a school. Inter\Echo 13:35, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Clearing the cache

How do I do that?

68.169.113.246 Talk to me, 68.169.113.246 My contributions 12:10, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

It should be explained in Wikipedia:Clear your cache - normally a shift-reload is he first step, but then it may be the WP cache itself. Dunno how to clear it for anonymous users, users with account have a checkbox in the preferences whether that cache should be used or not. andy 12:15, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Explanation

These Lithuanian cities never had Polish names in the past.

Adding to explaination: they (the cities in question) never had Polish minorities either. These are attempts by certain indviduals to establish an idea that Lithuania is historically Polish because it was part of Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth I think. As the same indviduals delete Lithuanian names for Polish cities, *even* cities which historically had Lithuanian majority. DeirYassin 13:36, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My main problem was that the removal of the polish names - whether they belong there or not is another question - was labeled as "rv vandalism", which it definitely isn't. andy 15:04, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Featured picture nomination

I have submitted a picture of yours here:

COM:FPC

Do you have a higher resolution image? LoopZilla 10:58, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC) and [6]

Your order

Thanks for correcting German description, at my order page :). Oh, here you have your ordered image: commons:Image:BSridarunsil.png. It is so simple, so I have done it quickly. Regards. -PioM EN DE PL 19:29, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wow, that was really fast, thanks a lot. I'll request the other Thai bishops once I can find a decent example picture, but that one is already a nice start. Of course I already included it into the article. andy 16:11, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
You are welcome. -PioM EN DE PL 18:46, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Nomialbot

What's the purpose of {{R from scientific name}}? It doesn't appear to be documented anywhere.

Nomialbot creates redirects from a genus name to a species article when the genus is marked as monotypic in the taxobox (i.e. highlighted in bold). But I see that there are many articles with the genus bolded even though it is non-monotypic. Would you like me to delete all the redirects from genera to species I made? (A bit tricky at the moment with article deletion not working, but I can schedule it for when that problem is fixed.) Gdr 11:51, 2005 Jun 8 (UTC)

I looked at Wikipedia:Template messages but didn't see any documentation, just a list of templates and their text. What are they for?

I don't think it's necessary to delete them directly (they don't create much harm even if they are slightly misleading), a slight crosscheck might be enough. If you can create a list of those redirects the bot created (maybe a bit easier than to check the contributions list of GdrBot) I will put the check of them on my todo list. andy 12:19, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)

OK, will do. Gdr 12:30, 2005 Jun 8 (UTC)


Links on Today pages

OK. I'll stop adding them for now. I noticed there has been some information I had on my pages that was not in the wikipedia but it's not that often. I try to add it to the Wikipedia when I find it but the idea I had was that if I had the links there at the bottom, I would not have to do a diff between what's in Wikipedia and what I have on my site. I'll stop adding links for now (I've done them through June 30) and will wait for someone to add a note asking me to resume on my discussion page if people want me to resume. --TNLNYC 22:15, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)


Kl0pper

Hi, I'm kinda new, and I noticed that you protected this page from vandalism. Usually there's some clue as to why, so I was somewhat baffled and thought maybe it was some kind of joke, so much so that I put a speedy delete tag on it(!) - anyway, once I learned you were an admin, I thought there might be some rhyme or reason to it...just curious is all. Thanks. :) StopTheFiling 09:41, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

Seems like that one can be deleted now, the vandalism spree on creating that nonsense article should be over for now. As you wonder why no vandalism history was visible - those edits were deleted, thus are only visible to admins. andy 16:16, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I see, that makes sense that you can delete the edit history - while keeping it would make things clearer, I can also definitely see why one wouldn't want it there. Thanks for the explanation. StopTheFiling 16:55, Jun 9, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for reverting the vandal on my user page/talk page. – ABCD 12:50, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Many Thanks from Manop

I'm a newbie here. Thank you for the useful suggestions user:Manop After I browsed the Thai Wikipedia, I found out that you're a great resouce of the Thai Wikipedia. Thanks again. P.S. It seems to me that you can use Th-1 or Th-2 ;)

Questions

Hello again,

I have many questions for the Thai wiki, and my really question is where I can post my questions. I really got lost in the Thai wiki.

And my questions are where to find these topics below in Thai?


Thanks --manop 21:13, 2005 Jun 13 (UTC)


Image:Rochdale Canal1.jpg

It resurfaced as Image:Calder and hebble.jpg. I've fixed the image link.Geni 11:23, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Accidental deletion...

Hi.

I note from Special:Log/Delete that you deleted General Council of the Valleys: 

11:50, 16 Jun 2005 Ahoerstemeier deleted "General Council of the Valleys" (only external link)

I'd knocked this into a halfway decent stub, and removed the speedy notice; is there any chance you can undelete it, or will it need to go through Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion? I suspect there was a few minutes lag messing things up here...

Thanks. Shimgray 10:56, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Oups, sorry, my mistake, I only noticed that it was one more of the "weblink to national parliament" speedy deletion candidates created by the same anonymous user - I didn't notice it was expanded already. Of course I undeleted it directly now. andy 10:58, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Thanks! Speedy deletion and speedier restoration ;-) Shimgray 11:00, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Phuket

I've seen that you changed the details of Phuket, esp. the meaning of some Malay words. These are very sensitive issues, and are not sound nice to us. Please be careful of keeping the Wikipedia neutral, which is very important for the young generation to learn, not to be forced to know by some of the mis leading information.

I have answered at Talk:Phuket Province, as for problems with a specific article the discussion page is the right place. andy 11:25, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thai Royals

hi there. well as far as i know, Rama V is more common that Chulalongkorn or whatever.. in english. what the situation in Thailand is, i am not quite sure. the reason of renaming is simple: before, an article would simply be headed as let´s say for example, "Vajravudh". vajravudh who? the prince? the king? the gardner? the god? so you will probably agree with me, that that can´t work, and most encyclopedia´s won´t list him that way anyways. it has to be more than, "King Vajravudh of Thailand" or something like that... do we agree on that?

regarding the rules you mentioned about naming, i´ve heard it before, but in my humble opinion the naming rules are bull... i don´t know who put those up, but i´m going to go there and discuss it as well. Queen Sirikit is listed as Sirikit Kitiyakara, which makes NO sense whatsoever, even by current Wikipedia rules. then we have a case like "Mary of Teck", who nobody knows who that is. (Answer:Queen Mary I of England. why it´s impossible to list her under that name is a riddle to me). it gets even better: "Marie Antoinette" is listed at the moment under that name, just like in the German version. perfectly fine. according to Wikipedia rules however, she should be listed under her maiden name, that would be "Maria Antonia, Archduchess of Austria". tell me honestly, who knows Maria Antonia? another point, Empress Elisabeth of Austria (Sisi) is currently listed as "Elisabeth of Bavaria". according to Wikipedia rules, she should actually be named "Elisabeth, Duchess in Bavaria". excuse me, but who has ever heard of Duchess Elisabeth in Bavaria?

since the Thai kings are monarchs, why should they be listed differently? you can check out the naming rules for monarchs here

[7]

Antares911 11:18, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The main problem is the Rama something - that is not the common use. E.g. Wyatt's "History of Thailand" as the standard english language history book almost never uses it, it's always "King Mongkut" etc. The "of Thailand" would be necessary if the king have names like "Edward", but there'll never be any other King Mongkut than the one in Thailand. I prefer the simple article titles, thus even skipping the "king" if there is no confusion about it - there's no other "Mongkut" in Thailand. You might also see Talk:Bhumibol Adulyadej why that one shouldn't be moved to Rama IX - why treat the current king other than the previous ones? But as I said - maybe it'd be a good idea to discuss this in general how to treat Thai titles, as the "correct" name is a very confusing topic there. But I would suggest to use Wyatt as the guideline. andy 11:33, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Now added it to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Thailand-related articles)#Article names for Thai royals/Thai with honorary titles andy 11:46, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
actually there is controversy as well about the naming of "Bhumipol Adulyadej" because it would signify a slight disrespect towards His Majesty. you can read up on that on the [[Talk:]] page of that article. besides "Mongkut" doesn´t tell a lay person anything, it needs to elaborated, just like "Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom", or "Empress Michiko of Japan" and NOT "Michiko" or whatever. in any case, there need to be better guidelines how to name non-european royals, we need to talk about this to come to a suitable solution.

about the naming of Thai royals, i have always seen both, either " King Rama V" or the personal name. if the majority chooses to use the personal name, then I shall respect that. however the title cannot be simply be "Mongkut" as I pointed out earlier. that is simply not acceptable and is a slight on Their Majesties. comments are more than welcome Antares911 19:17, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Chulalongkorn

Comments (and votes) for wikipedia:Requested move have to be placed on the talk page of the page to be moved. So I have moved your comment on Chulalongkorn Talk:Chulalongkorn However it could have been understood to be an Oppose vote. If so you will have to go to Talk:Chulalongkorn#Requested move to Oppose the move. Philip Baird Shearer 16:11, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

hi there Ahoerstemeier. i posted my thoughts about renaming of the Thai Royals. their status definetly needs to be reflected in the naming of the article, is my humble opinion. Antares911 19:27, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Red link recovery project

Howdy, Topbanana here, back after an extended absence. I've decided to round up a few of my more useful reports into a project with the goal of converting as many "red links" (links to non-existant articles) into "blue links" (links to real articles). As you've been active in fixing similar things in the past, I thought I'd let you know in case you're interested in joining up. If not, I won't be offended - we've all got lots todo here :) - TB 11:34, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

Hallo

Andy,

I guess you know nothing about Siam (Thailand). Would it be better to keep your hand out of our topic and make it confusing for many (not only Thais but for all who know the history). I beg your pardon, you can use many books in library to refer to your knowledge but please dont think by yourself.

I guess if you have any problem of that, you should better leave for others who know better than you ok. You know I am also study Physics and think that this kind of pure science would help you too think more broader and be more systematic.

With a good hope, please...

Talk:Military of Pakistan

Would you be interested in discussions on this (Talk:Military of Pakistan) particular page?--PrinceA 00:09, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Protect User:Dmcdevit?

Do you think a page protection may be called for? David | Talk 22:00, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Seems like now at least part of the IP range used for the vandalism is blocked with a range block - but as it's someone at the Colorado State University that can be only a short time measure. If it were only the user page it can be protected easily, but the talk page is a bit more difficult, as then it would be difficult to get in contact with User:Dmcdevit. andy 22:03, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I guess school's out for the day. David | Talk 22:19, 26 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Muslim?

I called for input from concerned editors and I received no objections (and a go-ahead from Mustafaa, who is an ADMIN), I redirected Muslim. There is nothing there that isn't already in Islam, and what IS there is often badly-phrased or inaccurate. Why have two articles about the same subject, one good, one bad? You may see something in all of this that we don't, so please discuss your reversion on Talk:Muslim. Zora 28 June 2005 14:52 (UTC)

Ta Pee river

I got it from: Pocket Thailand in figures 2003 - Alpha research co.ltd. 2003 ISBN 9749099052 - They give as their source thai statistics agency. Waerth 30 June 2005 19:40 (UTC)

Khmer script

No, I don't have the Unicode version unfortunately. When I made the graphic versions, I used this Khmer dictionary [8] to display the words I wanted, then I made snapshots of the screen, cut and pasted, voila! On a side note, I thought you might be interested in joining the discussion at the Vietnam article. There is a controversy as to what the exact number of Khmer people living in southern Vietnam is. I put official statistics from the Vietnamese government, but I also put non-government statistics from Khmer exile organizations. Unfortunately, as was predictable, there are lots of angry Vietnamese Wikipedians who just don't want to accept anything BUT official Vietnamese figures. I think in cases of controversies like this one, we should present data coming from all sides, and not just government data. Imagine if at the Tibet article we reported only official Chinese figures, and we didn't report Tibetan exile figures! So anyway, I am the only one defending Khmer figures against many angry Vietnamese Wikipedians, so I thought maybe other people having a look at it would be helpful. Hardouin 1 July 2005 23:25 (UTC)

Actually, no, the link you provided (names of Cambodian provinces) and the Khmer dictionary I linked above do not use the same encoding. Their encodings are close, but there are some differences. For instance, try ½½ , you'll see it appears as two different things in the dictionary and in your website. Hardouin 5 July 2005 12:45 (UTC)

Fun and games with VfD notices

Thank you for the removal of VfD notices from "my" (?!) pages. I do think, though, that this particular IP has indulged in quite enough silly behavior, and has been warned sufficiently often, for a block to be warranted. -- Hoary July 4, 2005 07:27 (UTC)

no i deleted something rude

the article on iran. when i went to edit the page the rude sentence didn't appear in the text. it actually said "persian language". but when i went back to the page the rude line was still there, in brackets [ ]. so i deleted it. my eyes did not deceive me!!! ok, just to set things straight

You probably saw an outdated version of July 2, but that vandalism was fixed 40 minutes later already. It was in your cache, and only after you edited it (by removing the word "Persian") the cache gave you the current version. andy 4 July 2005 11:02 (UTC)

Haka picture

Hi, the picture at haka is taken from http://www.tainui.co.nz/kapahaka/haka.htm and should be deleted (there is a little copyright mark at the bottom of that page). I am not sure where this should be mentioned. Can you help. Thanks.

I have put it on Wikipedia:Copyright violations, so considered it handled. andy 5 July 2005 19:58 (UTC)

webbrowser/Community Portal issues

I'm guessing your message about my webbrowser was referring to the changes I made on Community portal. Very very sorry about that. I'm currently using Safari 1.0.3, Mac OSX 10.2.8. I've been gone for several days, essentially since before the 1.5 upgrade, and I've never had this problem before. Possibly a 1.5 bug that should be reported? Any technical assist you could provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, and once again sorry about the weirdness. Soundguy99 5 July 2005 16:52 (UTC)

Figured out my problem. Default setting for Safari is Latin-1, but it can be changed to UTF-8. Just FYI in case you notice another editor causing the same problem. Thanks. Soundguy99 5 July 2005 17:52 (UTC)

Spamball

Andy, which IP are you rolling back, no 6 or no 7? JFW | T@lk 7 July 2005 21:56 (UTC)

7andy 7 July 2005 21:57 (UTC)

Danke. I was getting a sore R finger from rolling back this ghastly linkspammer. JFW | T@lk 7 July 2005 22:11 (UTC)

Hope we caught all those edits where both 7 and 6 edited - then the rollback doesn't remove the spamlink. I have hand-edited a few already. andy 7 July 2005 22:15 (UTC)


a simple thought

thanks for helping againt the vandalism... Gabrielsimon 8 July 2005 11:48 (UTC)

Agreed! I don't know how you caught the one on Liquid Tension Experiment 2 so fast, but glad you did! Justabaldguy 03:05, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

That one was simple - I just check regularily which pages use the Example.jpg/Example.ogg or link to "Link title", as these are the standard editing experiments done with the toolbar. However that's not really vandalism, it's just clueless newbies... andy 07:07, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

India flag

Hi. The India flag on the Thai page is incorrect. It masks the correct one present in commons, as both have the same name. Please have it deleted on the Thai WP. Thanks. =Nichalp «Talk»= 11:28, July 17, 2005 (UTC)

Done. andy 21:04, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Thanks =Nichalp «Talk»= 19:29, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Chiang Rai page

Thanks for contacting me... I guess. The page seems to have been about three sentences long for two years or so. I try to help it out a little and you immediately criticize what I've done in about two days. What are you the Wiki Poleizei? I'll assume you're really a nice guy, just temporarily too full of your own importance. Happens to the best of us.

Sorry I forgot to sign the above. And, having received your apology, I am sorry that I snapped at you as well.

But you ought to give folks a chance before you criticize the earliest stages of what I hope will be an ongoing effort. You did have nearly two years yourself during which, ahem, not much got done. So your first "directive" went down a little hard, Herr Professor Doktor Hoerstemeier. Made me feel as though you were the "enforcer" for the self-appointed Thai mafia which feels it "owns" the Wikipedia Thailand related pages, as pictured at the "Wikipedia Meetup in Thailand"...

Well I'll start again. Thanks for saying hello. As I understand it you are free to obliterate my work if you feel it is not up to the mafia's standard.

thai naming vote

Would you like to visit Talk:Sirikit Kitiyakara and add your vote in the ongoing poll. There certain person wants to put long rambling (= queen titles and territorial designations) into the heading. Arrigo 09:57, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

MBTA Vandalism

Thanks for fixing the vandalism on the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 article! Lensim 15:31, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Can Bohr's complementarity be tested?

You recently looked at this. To me it looks like original research, and a prime candidate for VFD. Any opinions? DJ Clayworth 15:02, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

I just fixed a typo there, but yes, that article looks a bit odd. Maybe it should simply be merged with the article on that experiment it talks about, and made into a redirect? andy 16:18, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

Thai familie

hallo Ahoerstemeier. well i would like to ask you the same question, why are you so fixated in getting rid of the royal titles? I really don´t understand it. why for european royalty is it ok to write Princess Alexandra of Edinburgh or Diana, Princess of Wales, but in Thailand and the rest of world it has to be Chulabhorn or Srirasmi? and please don´t point out to me the Wikipedia rules on naming royals "it does not apply to eastern civilizations", i mean sorry, i just cannot buy that. because some of the rules are just dogmatic and don´t make much sense sometimes. btw. the Princess Mother in that case would have to remain under that current name and not her maiden name, because apparently the naming-rule for dead queen consorts does not apply to eastern civilizations. current queen consorts are named with their titles, but Queen Sirikit of Thailand has to be known as Sirikit Kitiyakara.

what? i have lived in Thailand myself and i know that nobody there calls her that officialy, it would actually be offensive. and the Princess Chulabhorn is known internationally and in english in Thailand as that, "Princess Chulabhorn" and certainly not just Chulabhorn.

and yes i have already heard the argument that there is only one princess Chulabhorn and no other and therefore it is completely unnecessary etc etc... and i can only say to that, yes maybe for the Thailand-expert and insider this might be the case, i also know who she is obviously. but put yourself in the position of someone who is using Wikipedia for the first time. what is he supposed to do with an article-heading of "Srirasmi"? and what would be the problem by simply adding "Princess" to it? is that so difficult or so horrible? i really don´t understand it.

i mean we can go on and on about this. what i didn´t like is that you would simply move the articles, without consulting anyone about this first, since there are not even clear rules regarding this. if the rules would be clear, i would accept them. so if you want we can gladly discuss the issue, but just please stop moving the articles I created and renaming them, because it´s really tedious to put it back again the way it was. i´ve tried moving it back, but obviously that was not possible sometimes because you (or someone else) moved it just like that. thank you... Antares911 20:16, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

As was said over and over again - there are many royals named Diana or Alexandra, so there has to be the disambiguation with the country. I simply want the article title to be as simple as possible, and as long as EB and Encarta don't need to add royal titles in their article titles why do we have to. And why noone of the Thai people who edited here so far had any problem with the location of the article? Of course, if I ever meet any of those royals I would adress them in the appropiate way. And especially the elder royals had not one title, but many, so the article title would be blown up to many screen lines.
But I am tired of the moving back-and-forth as well - I try to keep the List of Thailand-related topics up to date, to monitor changes and notice vandalism in these articles, and changing the location of the articles almost daily is a nonsense task. But notice, I haven't moved them back last time but User:Arrigo, and it was him who added something to the editing history of the redirects which made you use the wrong moving way. And that one needs to be reverted, as it destorys the editing history. andy 20:35, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
yes i´ve heard you, and i know what User:Arrigo did. i never said that we have to include all the titles in the article heading, those are not my words and that would be ridiculous, because you can put that in the article itself. and i have already said that i am aware about the argument about there being only one "Srirasmi" or whoever and i´m getting tired of this as well. however User:Adam Carr created an article as well title Prince Tipangkorn Rasmichoti and that was moved without discussion. i find it very ironic, that other users can simply move articles by whim, and when someone tries to restore it by moving it, it obviously does not work, and on top get accused of violating rules. the person should have posted a discussion in the first place, so that alone was already a violation of Wikipedia policy. we can have a discussion about naming rules, but there are no clear guidelines at the moment. Antares911 22:14, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

thai votes

The famed Antares has introduced voting into some pages, such as Talk:Srirasmi and Talk:Tipangkorn Rasmichoti. (have you seen any more of those?) Your vote will be appreciated. Arrigo 22:52, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Would you visit Talk:Manual of Style for Thailand articles and contribute to my latest framework. 217.140.193.123 21:07, 25 July 2005 (UTC)


hi Andy, now it's time to defend the fort from "Ostrogoths":)) please visit Talk:Manual of Style for Thailand articles#Consensus?? (hope I made the link correct...) 217.140.193.123 08:55, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

user blanking talk page

User Theathenae blank his talk page, [9]. This is against policy. Can you please review and give him a warning or ban him for 24 hours, he have been fully ware of this policy rule by user MacGyverMagic [10]. --Albanau 20:34, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Non-existing towns/counties and VfD

Actually, no, they have to go through VfD. Wikipedia:Patent nonsense says that "while regrettable", hoaxes are not nonsense, and Wikipedia:Deletion policy is clear that hoaxes must be processed through VfD. While I wish stuff like this was speediable, fact is if you are going to follow the party line, it's not. Denni☯ 22:04, 2005 July 30 (UTC)

Koyna Dam

Hi I need a little text in the infobox translated from German to English on the Koyna Dam page. Thanks, =Nichalp «Talk»= 19:30, August 1, 2005 (UTC)

Done. Hopefully I used the correct technical terms. andy 21:03, 1 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks. =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:52, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

Category:Queer Wikipedians

I am not quite sure why you are speedying this cat. It is a speedy rename.. see Cfd to be moved . thanks. ∞Who?¿? 16:17, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

==Queer Wikipedians== You are creating an article in the main namespace, not a category (Category:Queer Wikipedians) or an article in the meta namespace like Wikipedia:Queer Wikipedians, where I already moved your text. andy 16:19, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok, now I'm confused. This was a category, now its an article? Or did we finally reserve Wikipedia category namespace? ∞Who?¿? 16:22, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

No, I understand that. But I created Category:Queer Wikipedians, which is a redlink, but if you look, it has articles in it. It was a category, not an article. So I'm not sure what you mean still. ∞Who?¿? 16:27, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I see what you're talking about, in the deletion log, the bad thing is, I didn't create that. I followed the link on Cfd that I gave you above, that created the category. I must have added it wrong to someones page and they clicked on the red link. I think. I dunno how the article could have been created, because I didn't type it in. I'm moving it to the category, thanks. ∞Who?¿? 16:35, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I found the error. Sorry for the trouble. The only reason I was seeing the cat, is I was on the userpages which had the correct link, whereas I put the wrong link on the speedy rename page and it got copied that way, it looked right. I appologize for seeming rash, it was just really weird from my point of view. Thanks again. ∞Who?¿? 16:45, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Request

Dear Ahoerstemeier,

I would like to bring to your attention the activities of user: kennethtennyson and JD (whom i suspect are one and the same). The gist of my complaint is that their activities involve the constant alteration of material on the Wikipedia page for Kalaripayattu, the indian martial art system.

There has been a long held belief that Kalari is strongly linked to Shaolin and the various chinese martial art systems and Wikipedia has been instrumental in providing a channel for Indian and Non indian individuals to provide evidence to support this connection. However due to the open policy of Wikipedia, the page in question has become the arena for a few Chinese individuals who are resistent to this fact to stage attempts at quelling this school of belief.

These individuals are cearly intent on altering the material and stifling whatever information that is brought forth to reveal an existing connection between the Indian and Chinese martial art systems. I am distressed at this fact because Wikipedia has given us an opportunity to provide information in an area that has been shrouded in doubt for much too long and we are unable to provide the existing evidence due to the bigotry of a few individuals.

I am certain that Wikipedia administrators are unable to intercede in an event like this, but I wish for advice on a course of action to cease in what is likely to be an unending editing war. 02:08, 5 August 2005 (+0800hrs)

link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalari

Oliver

Thanks! email - [email protected]

RE: Request

Dear Ahoerstemeier,

I would first like to point out that Kennethtennyson and I are not the same person. The martial arts are merely where his interests and mine intersect. A quick check of our respective histories should clear that up. He has reverted some of my edits and I have qualified some of his, but he has always been respectful in his exchanges with me.

In contrast, "Oliver", who calls himself "Morfeen" on Talk:Kalarippayattu—a quick check of his history will show that they share the same IP (202.156.2.162) and, as far as I can tell, do not use a Wikipedia username, at least not the same one consistently—takes umbrage whenever anyone challenges the assertion that Shaolin comes from kalarippayattu. I had placed content on the page (now restored and protected) that cited sources which questioned that claim, material which 202.156.2.162 replaced with the following POV screed.

With the advent of the internet, there are many hypotheses about various subjects masquerading as facts and/or academically accepted theory. The disguise hiding the proponents' biases and agendas. The intent is to create a lie that is spread so widely and repeatedly the propaganda is popularly accepted as truth. These are often complicated when one propaganda is argued against another, so it seems like the truth is between either lie when neither is true. Kalaripayattu is one of these subjects. Kalaripayattu is an Indian martial art, and a claim has been made that it is the origin of the martial arts traditions of Asia, and it was transported to China by Bodhidharma. This has been strongly refuted by those who have a bigotted bias against India and those who have nationalist agendas that precludes any idea that any cultural art is the result of an import, as if somehow that would degrade the art or the country and it's artists.

Some have gone so far to claim that Bodhidharma did not exist simply because there are no surviving historical, as in written, records in India, whereas there are numerous records of him in China and Japan. This argument is logically ridiculous, there are in fact no historical records of Hsuan-Tsang or Xuan Zang, the famous Chinese Buddhist pilgrim who travelled to India, in India itself. Yet, he provides one of the most important and accurate histories of India used by British scholars centuries later to rediscover sites in India lost from use with the decline of Buddhism. Buddhism's importance in historical records in India had almost been erased and subsumed into the Hindu tradition. Regardless of the logical fallibility of the argument, one would not really expect Indian historical records of a monk who made his mark in China and did not return to India. On the internet, propagandists disclaiming his existence remark that historical record of Bodhidharma did not exist until centuries after his death. Yang Xuanzhi describes Bodhidharma in the earliest surviving mention of him in "The Record of the Buddhist Monasteries of Lo-yang", a 547 Chinese text. Yang tells of meeting Bodhidharma at the monastery of Yung-ning.

Furthermore, propagandists claim there is no record of Bodhidharma coming from the south of India. Several texts in China do exactly that including "Xu Gao Sen Zhuan" by Dao Xuan, which is a 120 years or so after Bodhidharma's death though it largely copies earlier texts--T'an Lin's "Biography" and Bodhidharma's own "Two Entrances" from the first two sections of the "Long Scroll of the Treatise on the Two Entrances and Four Practices" discovered in tens of thousands of manuscripts in a hidden chamber of the Tun-huang or Dun-huang caves in northwest China. The differences in Dao's text in that he uses Yang's description of Bodhidharma's age and a route to China by sea. The texts describe Bodhidharma's birth in the modern southern Indian state of Kerala around 440 during the Pallavas' rule. He is told to be a clan prince in a poor hunter class and was well versed in martial arts. Since the region is the area where martial arts are practiced to this day, the martial art of Kalaripayattu is connected to the martial arts that Bodhidharma practiced by many martial artists Indian and Chinese and Japanese, or other ethnicities, but to essentially describe the development of Oriental tradition of martial arts.

Propagandists claim that "Hindutva" scholars and historians are the only ones who propose these ideas, but clearly these ancient contemporary texts could hardly be described as "Hindutva", they were Buddhist and to do so would be anachronistic to attribute an unassembled ideology several centuries into the past. Furthermore the claim that the origin of the Oriental tradition of martial arts coming from India is made by Chinese and Japanese martial artists, who could hardly be described as "Hindutva" idealogues. A book by Terence Dukes, or Shifu Nagaboshi Tomio, an ordained teacher and Buddhist monk initiate of the Ryushinji Temple in Okinawa, Japan, studies the development of martial art forms from China to Japan and from India to China and also traces the corresponding transfer of Buddhism and ancient Indian knowledge like Sanskrit texts ("The Bodhisattva Warriors: The Origin, Inner Philosophy, History and Symbolism of the Buddhist Martial Art within India and China").

All of this comes with the notion that any transfer of martial arts from region to region was accompanied by the transfer of Buddhism. Although there was much cultural exchange as Buddhism travelled through Asia from India, this does not preclude cultural exchanges that occured prior to the advent of Buddhism along the already thriving silk roads and other exchange routes. Much of the preconceived notions about Oriental martial arts come about from the assembled stereotype of the current situation of martial arts and films; in which, Buddhism is also associated with China and Japan and not India regardless of Buddhism's origin and once flourishing in India.

Since most traditional martial arts in the Orient including India are based on a tradition of masters, regions, schools and forms can be studied as they have been by scholars like Terence Dukes, one could compare Kalaripayattu traditions and Chinese traditions and Japanese traditions to find some sort of definite answer to whether or not India was an origin of martial arts in other countries. In a country like India, where there are few recorded historical works describing ancients times that we know surprisingly much about, it's important to rely on archaelogical evidence and other means of scholarship. After all, one of the world's most important historical works the Bible is filled with legends, by most people's definitions, and written a few centuries after the crucial events described within.

Kalaripayattu could credibly claimed to be older than the 13th century. If not, then neither can many of the historical assumptions most serious academic theory holds true. One does not date Jesus Christ by when the Bible was physically written. Also, I am not clear at what the earlier editor is describing about the "Hundred Years War" and the Cheras and the Cholas. The Hundred Years War was fought between France and England. Maybe the editor was claiming that since the war between Southern Indian dynasties of the Cheras and the Cholas (and the Pandyas and Pallavas--the dynasty described in Indian and Chinese histories and in Chinese historical texts as the dynasty to which Bodhidharma was born under) lasted more than a hundred years it means that anything associated with the war is false also. Such a logical step is false, the wars between Southern Indian dynasties lasted several centuries and regardless how long the wars last, that would not prove or disprove that kalaripayattu existed during the wars or before the wars. The historical text by Pillai connects the origin of kalaripayattu to the wars between the Southern Indian dynasties that would make it existing during the early part of the first millenium. Regardless of if Kalaripayattu existed in India early on, it's clear from archaelogical evidence and the Vedas, the Hindu's religious texts (one of the world's oldest literatures), that martial arts existed from the earliest times, as the warrior caste is tied to martial arts training under gurus. Also in the earliest Vedic texts, the importance of wrestling to male status is described, corroborated by what Greek historical records say Alexander the Great and his armies found and admired. (Though not mentioned in any written historical record from that time in India. One would have to discount Greek and Roman histories to make this any significant evidence about martial arts in India.)

I will not say that India is the origin of martial arts of China and Japan, etc. even though Chinese and Japanese sources say as much. Shaolin monks in China relate how Bodhidharma brought martial arts and how they used these arts to survive brutal imperial repression and dacoitry. The Shaolin Temple in China contains fresco murals with dark-skinned, not black, but similar in skin tone to Indians, monks teaching ostensibly Chinese monks fighting forms. On the mural that survived three fires between 1644 to 1927, it says in Chinese script "Tenjiku Naranokaku" translating as "the fighting techniques to train the body [which come] from India . . ." Likewise, Zen Buddhists in Japan and other Japanese martial artists also trace martial arts to India. It may very well be a legendary narrative that a single Indian brought martial arts to China though reflecting a true transfer of martial arts from one country to another. History is full of legends borne out to have truth, like the discovery of Troy by Heinrich Schliemann. Or it might be a legend connecting countries in bonds of brotherhood that do not exist. Either way there is no definite or clear answer in historical (written) records that would settle the issue ie. clearly say Bodhidharma brought "Kalaripayattu" to China and start martial arts traditions; although from the sum total of evidence--oral histories and the transfer of other arts along trade routes, one is more inclined to believe at least some transfer of knowledge occured given the same academic inferences made in other cases.

Whatever the case, propagandas and controversies will ensue. Especially in light of upcoming films's like Jackie Chan's The Myth (which features a Kalaripayattu artist along with the beautiful Bollywood starlet Mallika Sherawat) and rivalries of the two great emerging nations of China and India--or at least a supposed rivalry by outside observers and misguided nationalists. A supposed rivalry ignore current cooperative efforts by both countries--recent 2005 joint military exercises, a joint oil purchasing effort, etc. And to extend any modern rivalry to ancient martial arts would be a futile anachronistic exercise that ignores the ancient historical record and archaelogical evidence of many tribes and kingdoms that moved between both regions in which Central Asia also played an important role along trade routes.

This material has been inserted into the kalarippayattu article previously on 25 June 2005, three times on 29 June 2005, and on 25 July 2005.

Is this the sort of material that belongs in a Wikipedia article?

In addition to the blatant POV, the author brazenly and consistently misrepresents the works he cites in support of his views by claiming they say things that they do not (e.g. the year and kingdom into which Bodhidharma was born) or making omissions of the inconvenient (e.g. Yang Xuanzhi's identification of Bodhidharma as Persian, Terence Dukes' dating of kalari to c. 1200).

There is one final, additional thing that 202.156.2.162 gets wrong.

My username isn't "JD," it's JFD 01:20, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

astronomy fixes in German Wikipedia

Hi, can you move de:BT Monoceretis to "BT Monocerotis? I don't have an account on the German Wikipedia.

Also perhaps edit de:Columba, de:Vulpecula and the German version of List of constellations by area, to reflect Vulpecula = 268 sq. deg. (and 55th place) and not 278 sq. deg. (and 54th place). -- Curps 04:13, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Done. Besides, the are in the German Columba article was way off as well. andy 15:51, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for the revert. Guettarda 02:43, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

More link spam

Ahoerstemeier, You'd warned this one before, but he's at it again.

Link spam

Calicocat 06:23, 9 August 2005 (UTC)


Interlanguage links

Since you are interested in InterWiki links, and since I quoted your comments from Wikipedia talk:Interlanguage links in my argument with Andre Engles about the actions of Robbot, could you take a look at that discussion at User talk:Robbot#Justify removing links? Gene Nygaard 11:38, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

new species

Heya! Thanks for adding the info on Mirza zaza and Microcebus lehilahytsara. Where did you run across the info? I was able to find the authors' paper describing the new guys, but I'd love to be more well informed about such events. I also note that the paper assumes the existance of Microcebus simmonsi, which I hadn't heard of before either. (Watching for response.) - UtherSRG (talk) 13:46, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

I read about them in a short (German) news report in Spiegel online [11]. However as that one only mentioned the scientific name Mirza zaza, I found the second one with Google news [12]. Yet the quality of the information in those two news reports is of course much lower than the actual paper, however I have no access to that one. But even though it's just few information I thought it worth to be added to those two articles already, and left it to the specialists to fill it with more information.
However SpOn is hardly a good source for "new species news", as it's just one topic of many, most of it is German politics - and of course it's in German. I also wonder if there's a special RSS feed for something like that. andy 15:57, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
Yes, I used Google, too, to find this paper describing the new Mirza and Microcebus species. I'm trying to find the original descriotion of M. simmonsi that was mentioned in the Mirza paper. Oh well. - UtherSRG (talk) 18:37, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Very High Temperature Reactor

I apologize if I did something wrong since I am new to wikipedia. I know that I probably didn't format the article right but I intended to list the article as a source and since the information is off of a government site it is public domain and therefore not any copyright violation.

Please adjust the article however you see fit but also please do not take it down neither.

Romania vandalism

Hi Andy,

It seems you are the only admin around the Romania article, and things aren't getting any better. See the talkpage too.

I'm trying to pull out of the article, but most of the Romanian editors seem to be pissed off or too busy elsewhere, while the vandals don't seem to be giving up anytime soon, so either a block or a vprotect would be greatly needed IMO. My understanding is that you are not supposed to do either, once you have taken sides, but you'll likely know another sysop whom you can ask to help out.

If you've got no time for this now, and there's a different / better way to handle this, please give me some instructions - last time I reported vandalism on WP:VIP there was next to no effect.

Thanks, KissL 12:20, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

I came to that article same way as you, strange vandalism in the Hungary article (which I was only monitoring due to a persistant spammer). But you're right - I cannot protect the article, as these edits aren't clear vandalism, but it's a disagreement in contents. But you can simply add a request on Wikipedia:Requests for page protection. andy 12:31, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your help with my edits. Before I had got the right place in the manual, you had already done it for me. Cheers.

squares

hi, i saw u busy on the dutch wiki changing squares from 25km2 to 25km². would u please be so kind to do it like this : km25<sup>2</sup> so u get km252 greetings Aleichem 18 aug 2005 13:47 (CEST)

Guess you've meant 25km2 :-) But actually I think km² is better the km2, as the latter creates an additional space between the lines due to the bigger height, and thus making the text flow somewhat jumpy. And also it's much easier to type, and does not need any HTML, but just wiki text. On the other hand km2 is save for non-unicode browsers, but as such a browser will create even more damage with interwiki links they should not be able to edit anymore. andy 16:29, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

Macombs Dam Bridge

Did you check google before deleting this page? I did and found it is a real bridge and deserves an article. I have written it. Hope that's okay? --Celestianpower hab | myRFA 12:10, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

Of course that's OK. The reason why I did not create such an article for it is simply that there are soooo many editing experiments and other speedy deletion candidates, it's impossible for just one person to check the ligitimate topics and replace the nonsense with correct info. And keeping the editing experiments for legitimate topics isn't good, better keep it a red link and then let's start anew. When I wasn't an admin yet and thus couldn't delete such nonsense texts at legitimate topics, I sometimes also replaced the editing experiments with a stub on the topic. andy 16:09, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
Reading other people's mail is fascinating. I edited the Macombs Dam Bridge article to include a historical note about the 9th Av el. The bridge leads to Yankee Stadium, by the way.

Thai MoS

Construed at Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (Thailand-related articles)#Cast votes 217.140.193.123 10:30, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

A Barnstar for You

I hereby award you the RickK Anti-Vandalism Barnstar for your heroic efforts in repairing and repelling the Willy on Wheels vandal — Bratschetalk 5 pillars (KC)

Hawaii

As you have done work with some monarchies, please take a look at this too. There's been a huge fuss lately over whether articles on Hawaii's monarchs are in the right location and there are some people who'd like to change the format used in naming the articles (e.g. one user wants to move the article Kamehameha I to Kamehameha I, King of Hawaii. We're having a discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Hawaii/Manual of Style#Names of monarchs, and your views on the conflict would be appreciated. Arrigo 13:03, 27 August 2005 (UTC)

Halver

rv "This article is based on that in the German Wikipedia " - it is not, I wrote it myself, and lated moved some text to the german article.

-Sorry Staffelde 14:31, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

No problem, mistakes can happen. andy 12:02, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Schmalkalden

You wrote the Schmalkalden-Meiningen article, so I write you about my de-red-linked article. The 1911 EB had an inadequate article, so I cribbed from the machine-translated version of the German wiki article; you are free to revise as you see fit, but the important bit, of course, is about the League of Schmalkalden. And the article is not a stub.

Since you are German-speaking, (and apparently into formerly East Germany topics) you are equally welcome to improve my equally inadequate Lusatian Mountains. My interest here is in the Lusatian culture, an archaeological culture which presumably is named after either German Lusatia (I'm interested in Sorbia too) or the mountains. I prefer Erzgebirge to Ore Mountains, but wiki politics get intense over name-space. --FourthAve 06:34, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Actually I am not so much interested into the Eat-German topics, I just came to write a lot on those regions while working on the Wikipedia:WikiProject German districts - my main interest in German topics is on those regions around my hometown and my current residence. But of course writing about regions I have never visited before was a very interesting way to learn about them. andy 18:53, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

Vasco da Gama

An article that you've edited before (Vasco da Gama) is nominated for Article Improvement Drive. If you want go there and vote. Thanks. Gameiro 02:54, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm, all I ever edited in that article were vandalism reverts... andy 12:01, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Cathal O'Connell

Why was that article deleted???It is entirely truthful

You may read in Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not why attack pages about high school classmates are not welcome here. andy 20:56, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I believe you will find that a lot of people would find that article interesting. It is a deep psychological reading into a troubled young mind

You're free to list it at Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion, but I can tell you before that it won't be undeleted. Ot if you insist you can also recreate it and wait it to be nominated at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion. Believe me, it may be fun to create such articles, but they don't belong here. And I am quite sure you won't like it if someone would write something similar about you here. andy 21:02, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

I actually would find it most amusing in all honesty. You cannot deny it is an amusing article

Then we have a different sense of humour - I cannot find anything funny in attacks on people who cannot fight them. andy 21:06, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok,we can disagree.But if i get a response from that person agreeing with the article,can you re-instate it???It really isnt offensive.If you disagree to that request,then i will drop my case and leave you alone

(As a neutul in this Cathal scandal can I add my opinion? The article to me was harmless fun poked at Cathal, who no doubt would appreciate the light hearted banter and almost romantic notion of someone createing an entry in his honour. Surely if the man himself can accept that, and goes on record of accepting that, there is no harm here?)

NO. Wikipedia is not a place to collect fun about school mates. If you need webspace to like that, go to geocities.com. This is an encyclopedia, nothing else. andy 21:22, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Surely however the article was providing no harm? It was a a toungue in cheek biography, what this is built in. I cannot really see why it's remaining undeleted would in any way undermine the website or it's readers. If anything the more homely touch it would create could prove to be a success, what harm would undeleting it do?

How about Slander and libel. As I said before, you're free to go to Wikipedia:Votes for undeletion if you really need others tell you the same. I consider the case done, I have better things to do. andy 21:32, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Surely is the man himself likes the article that doesn't matter?


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