Template:Did you know nominations/Ben (Gay is Okay)

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The following discussion is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Carabinieri (talk) 03:36, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

Ben (Gay is Okay)[edit]

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Created/expanded by Pass a Method (talk), Insomesia (talk). Nominated by George Ho (talk) at 04:32, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Idea, "that the pro-gay rap song, "BEN" (Better Everything Now), was inspired by the artists friend coming out and the It Gets Better campaign." It might be nice to add on it's the first mainstream rap song to quote Harvey Milk but that may be too wordy.Insomesia (talk) 20:56, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Fixed that for you. --George Ho (talk) 23:12, 9 May 2012 (UTC)
Looks good to me! Thank you!Insomesia (talk) 22:48, 10 May 2012 (UTC)
Already moved to BEN (song) by someone else. --George Ho (talk) 02:56, 13 May 2012 (UTC)
ALT 4 seems best to me.Insomesia (talk) 22:00, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Nomination needs a full review, now that a hook has been settled on by nominator and article creator/expander. BlueMoonset (talk) 06:36, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
FWIW, the source is in the article and can be seen here.[1]Insomesia (talk) 18:16, 24 May 2012 (UTC)
  • FN 7, 8, 9, and 19 need to be cleaned up (use the URL function). New enough and long enough. Grammar could use some fixing ("The video has over 130,000 views in its first week.", for example; dated information). Citation needed tag added. Hook is fine. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:06, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
    •  Cleaned up those references. --George Ho (talk) 05:16, 26 May 2012 (UTC)
      • Close paraphrasing on FN2b. FN8 is dead (the Dallas Voice).  — Crisco 1492 (talk) 08:32, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Why does fn 8 work in my browser, while it is not in yours? --George Ho (talk) 00:30, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

  • That may be it. I'm seeing FN8 fine from the US, and successfully using both Safari and (old) Opera browsers. While the later four cites are clearly appropriate, I'm not convinced that either of the two in the lede are appropriate: the article doesn't directly mention violence and deaths of LGBT people; the final part of the sentence is inferrable from the article, but not clearly stated. If FN7 covers the sentence, I'd list it once and at the end, and drop 8 from there. BlueMoonset (talk) 01:42, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Since you can see FN8, could you check for close paraphrasing? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:18, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Done. The only place I wasn't happy was in the use of "shied away" in the final Music video section sentence, so I rewrote the final half of it. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:14, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
  • violence and death of LGBT people comes from the It Gets Better Project, why that project was started, is there a better way to make that clear? Insomesia (talk) 03:14, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
  • The problem is not with the project doing that, the problem is that Lion never explicitly says, either in the interview (FN8) or on his own website's explanation of the song (FN7), that the "leading to violence and deaths of LGBT people" part of it was his inspiration. He talks about hip hop shunning the gay community, or dissing it, but nowhere does he follow that to violence and death. I've just done a minor copyedit of the article, and I deleted that particular phrase from the lede because there was no support for the direct connection it was claiming in the sources you gave. Absent a new source with that explicit connection, you'll have to settle for the indirect connection in the second Conception paragraph, which wouldn't belong in the lede. BlueMoonset (talk) 19:14, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
  • The changes look great, I agree that dropping the implied violence/death seems fine, if he connects these later it can possibly be re-added.Insomesia (talk) 19:20, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
  • Alright, I'm ready to tick off. How about you, BlueMoonset? — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:33, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
  • I prefer the ALT4 hook, like Insomesia does, of those that are valid. I've struck out three of the ALTs because of the mentions of suicides, which (as noted above) are not directly supported as his motivation by the article's sources. That's ALT1, ALT2, and ALT3, but not the two alternatives to ALT2. Otherwise, I don't see any problems. If you're fine with the size and other standard criteria, tick away. :-) BlueMoonset (talk) 23:46, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
  • FYI, the Michael Jackson hook earned a copyright slapdown and the song was reworked and the video replaced. I'm still looking into who reported what and will update the article. Thank you to all who helped with this process, I think the article is better for the attention!Insomesia (talk) 23:58, 27 May 2012 (UTC)
  • ALT4 approved, AGF on reference I can't access (that BlueMoonset has checked) — Crisco 1492 (talk) 01:41, 28 May 2012 (UTC)
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