Template:Did you know nominations/Albert Sack

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Theleekycauldron (talk) 09:23, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Albert Sack

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• ... that Albert Sack wrote the definitive reference book for antique dealers? Source: “In 1950 Albert Sack wrote the definitive reference book for antique dealers, Fine Points of Furniture: Early American, Good, Better, Best, Superior, Masterpiece, followed in 1993 by The New Fine Points of Furniture: Early American.” Yale University Library
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Betty Hall

Moved to mainspace by Thriley (talk) and 7&6=thirteen (talk). Nominated by Thriley (talk) at 06:32, 14 October 2022 (UTC).

• New enough. Long enough. QPQ done. NPOV observed. Earwig found no issues. All paras cited. However, the hook is problematic, as the source is the Israel Sack, Inc., Archive at Yale University Library, hardly a neutral source. Even if it were "definitive", that would surely only apply to American antique dealers, and perhaps just those in Early American Furniture. Edwardx (talk) 12:02, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
• ALT 1 ... that Albert Sack wrote the definitive reference book on furniture for American antique dealers? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 18:31, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
  • @Edwardx: does ALT1 work for you? theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 01:35, 2 November 2022 (UTC)
    • Thank you for the kind reminder, theleekycauldron. The problem with ALT1 is that it only compounds the ALT0 issue, and the source does not mention "American" (it is more or less falls under original research, I suppose). We could perhaps have an ALT0a with "...wrote what has been called "the definitive reference book for antique dealers"? " As we only have his Albert Sack's father's archive saying it is "definitive", it should not be in Wikipedia's voice! Edwardx (talk) 11:15, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

      Thank you for your interest. American was a fair implication of the language in ther article. You are the one who brought up that as a limitation to American antiquiies. And now you opine that this is WP:OR. If one were conspiratorially-minded, this would seem to be either a "fool's errand" or setting us up for failure. I assume neither of these applies. I WP:AGF. How can we satisfy you? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:04, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

      @Edwardx: I think the cited Yale Library source is saying "definitive" in its own voice, not the archive dumper's, unless you want to argue they're not independent of each other... theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (she/her) 23:54, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

Interesting article, I can help unstick this one if needed. Lightburst (talk) 15:11, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

• Thank you, theleekycauldron, but there may be a misunderstanding, as it is nothing to do with an "archive dumper". The source for the hook is the Israel Sack, Inc., Archive at Yale. Israel Sack was Albert Sack's father, and I not comfortable with the Israel Sack, Inc., Archive being a neutral source in stating that a book written by Israel Sack's son is "definitive". Maybe the book being reprinted 24 times might be the basis of a more neutral alternative. Or perhaps a fresh pair of eyes on this, as kindly offered by Lightburst. Edwardx (talk) 13:40, 9 November 2022 (UTC)

• Edwardx Per your suggestion, rewrote the hook for ALT1. He wrote the definitive work about American antiques — it is the "Bible" according to the New York Times. That settles the issue for ALT1, unless you think they didn't really mean it? 7&6=thirteen (☎) 12:12, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

• How is this? Closer to what The New York Times actually said...and more attention-getting? Pinging: Edwardx 7&6=thirteen

• ALT 1a: ... that Albert Sack wrote the "bible" for a generation of weekend antique furniture buyers? Cielquiparle (talk) 19:22, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

• Thank you, Cielquiparle and 7&6=thirteen. As the NYT suggests, it was an important book for buyers and collectors, but we cannot infer it was such for dealers. I can approve ALT1a, but will have to strike the others. Sorry about that. Edwardx (talk) 01:28, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

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