Talk:Yoko Kanno/Archive 1

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Keyboard

Isn't Yoko Kanno a keyboard player, also?


I'd think that all composers are capable of using a keyboard.

Yep, Yoko Kanno knows her way around a keyboard, and I have added this. For what it's worth, her husband is primarily a cellist, although he's also an active composer; it's not clear whether he can play piano.--ByrnedHead 10:38, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)


It'd be great if somebody could pin down the exact genre of music Yoko does. And I'm not talking about "soundtrack". If they could possibly(preferably) also add in some similar artists, that would rock... Hard. ~Mopey

Tricky one. I'm not sure her music is categorisable. Is there a musical genre that she hasn't touched? Heliocentric 13:25, August 10, 2005 (UTC)


Well I was thinking along the lines of most of her Cowboy Bebop music. Is the genre Bebop? If so then looking for a genre when downloading things is a really awful way of going about finding good music. Definately going to need some similar artists. ~Mopey

In fitting in with their referring to the series, as a genre, as "Space Jazz," the genre of its soundtrack's music is Jazz. Not Bebop. I think there's a difference, but I'm not very familiar with Bebop as a genre. MasterXiam 05:31, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
Bebop is a subset of jazz, and there is some bebop in the Cowboy Bebop soundtrack, but the soundtrack also includes some classical, neo classical, zydeco, world music, retro pop and rock. And I'm sure I've forgotten something. Several somethings. Canonblack 17:53, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Kanno's genre varies from song to song. You can't place a single genre on her music. You can't even place a single genre on an entire anime series she has done, or even an album. On top of this, many of her songs blend genres or seem to be genres all their own. -Kaji

The term usually used to describe music that cannot be classified as any one genre, particularly in the case of Yoko's whirlwhind of styles, is "Art Rock." Art Rock bands typically have nothing in common except that their music defies all classification by rising above genre labels. See http://www.progarchives.com/subgenre.asp?style=3 (a better definition than the one Wikipedia uses and from a more authoritative source). -EvilNight

Kingdom Hearts

She composed for kingdom hearts? Where did you get that from?

I don't believe she worked on Kingdom Hearts at all. That was composed by Yoko Shimomura, who has had a past of game compositions for Square/Square Enix. - wongjp

Moodorama

Is Ms. Kanno also involved with 'Moodorama' ?

Link for Ashurajo

This link does not go to the movie site, rather some sort of health page. Suggest removal? KB

Plagiarism

Criticism of Yoko Kanno for plagiarizing other composers'/songwriters' works has been rather wide-spread for a while now. The article should perhaps grow a subsection that deals with this topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.61.133.21 (talk • contribs)

Can you attribute such criticism to a reliable source? If so, it can be mentioned in the article. (Please read the link on attribution if you're unsure about what qualifies.) rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 00:40, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
Unfortunately not. There's plenty of obvious evidence around however, (for instance see http://www.hellgateguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3128 for a list of titles and examples). I encourage everyone to go hunting for attributable sources (japanese publications are probably the most promising places to look). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 84.61.139.139 (talk) 13:34, 22 February 2007 (UTC).
Well... I do not think Wikipedia takes message board threads as sources. I my self a few hours ago tried looking for a source in English online, but I could not find one and this is the first time I have ever heard of her plagiarising. Alus 17:22, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
I just looked at that message board thread. Many of the claims are clearly spurious -- "Call Me Call Me", for example, is definitely not "Bittersweet Symphony" -- and others are referring to classical pieces long out of copyright, where the references are most likely intentional. Not that this has any place in the Wikipedia article, anyway. rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 16:31, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
I agree that "Call Me Call Me" doesn't sound like Bittersweet Symphony. It does, though, sound a whole lot like Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls. And if you disregard that Bittersweet Symphony snafu, all the other ones are quite similar. I found out about this issue by hearing her song Cyberbird from Ghost in the Shell: Standalone Complex - it sounds very, very much like Battersea by Hooverphonic. JeffreyAtW 05:13, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
Huh? No, it's not plagiarized from Iris either. You might as well claim that Bittersweet Symphony plagiarized Iris. The songs I'm familiar with on that list have really tenuous connections -- another example is that "PAPA Plastic" is not plagiarizing "Come Together", unless the Beatles have a monopoly on the idea of a blues riff -- which makes me conclude that this doesn't amount to anything more than "OMG Yoko Kanno writes soundtracks in the style of popular/alternative music!" rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 08:05, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
All right - ignore the ones written in the first post. But do listen to the 30-second samples listed in the following posts - especially Battersea/Cyberbird on the second page. I don't think this is enough to cry plagiarism - but the article might benefit from the mention that a vast amount of Kanno's work is intentionally derivative. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by JeffreyAtW (talk • contribs) 08:17, 28 February 2007 (UTC).

Languages?

Is there any info on her speaking English or other languages? L337p4wn 03:41, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Categories

Yoko Kanno in included in Category:Cardcaptor Sakura, Category:Cowboy Bebop, Category:Ghost in the Shell, Category:RahXephon, Category:The Vision of Escaflowne ; could also be in Category:Wolf's Rain.

It could be better to have a category like Category:Anime whom music was composed by Yoko Kanno (with a better name if possible), or even Category:Works of Yoko Kanno, what do you think ? Jean-FrédéricFr 15:54, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

I second it. L337p4wn 02:56, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Creation

Anyone have any information about the project she worked on? [1] Jeffrywith1e 05:57, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

Gabriel Robin

According to the IMDB she is in fact Gabriel Robin http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0437819/ "Escaflowne (2000/II) (lyricist: "Sora") (as Gabriela Robin) " Perhaps this should be changed beyond speculation.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.225.241.56 (talk • contribs) 15:07, 16 April 2006

Note - imdb is not a reliable source. It features user generated content like wikipedia, and cannot be used to source something as fact AtaruMoroboshi (talk) 16:53, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
  • I always figured that if she is her, and she pretends not to be, then it behooves us to sustain the illusion, and that the courtesy is least one can do.
  • The Google summary for this page says it contains Speculation on her identity. Wouldn't that (as phrased) be original research? Shouldn't that be reworded somehow? (I have no idea how to change that or anything... not much of a wikipedian!) 24.56.114.29 (talk) 00:59, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

Pics?

Can we get some images of her in the article? You know, as a reference since she's described as having Edward from Cowboy Bebop based off of her? ForestAngel (talk) 19:37, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Well, we would need a picture someone has taken of her that they will release under a free license. (Wikipedia generally doesn't allow copyrighted pictures of living people.) I just searched on Flickr and couldn't find any. Maybe there's a Wikipedian out there who's gotten a picture of her at an anime convention... rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 19:51, 1 June 2008 (UTC)
lastFM have some images on her, but are they acceptable? --Boggah (talk) 00:22, 5 September 2008 (UTC)

I found an image on flickr and contacted the author. They changed the license to be a free version. We finally have a photo of her that can stay on here. -- malo (tlk) (cntrbtns)

No mention of formal study?

This article mentions Kanno had some formal training at the Conservatoire de Paris and Waseda University in Japan.

http://nippop.com/artist/artist_id-133/artist_name-yoko_kanno/

It's unclear if she was studying composition or piano performance (or something else?) but it's probably something that should be mentioned in her biography if we can get a confirmation. Did she graduate with a degree in anything? Who did she study with? Is this information private and thus unattainable? Streichorchester (talk) 02:04, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

NEVERMIND! I just learned that the blogger who posted that "bio" had their information wrong and this is the Yoko Kanno who studied in Paris http://www.kilie.com/yoko/

Of course, I don't know for sure, but man if this isn't confusing enough already... Streichorchester (talk) 21:07, 20 May 2008 (UTC)

Mistake

hi, I don't feel qualified to edit this myself but "Composer for all tracks, two tracks composed with Alexander Borodin" in the pop music / Maaya Sakamoto section doesn't seem the best description, since Borodin has been dead for over a hundred years and Kanno simply took some of the melody from his Polovtsian Dances. can someone fix that up to normal standards? -mayu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.71.96.254 (talk) 08:24, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. Probably someone just had no idea who Borodin was. Feel free to be bold and fix such things yourself next time. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 11:29, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Plagiarism

It's widely suspected that Yoko Kanno (or the group of people with whom she presumably works, but at the end of the day it's released under her name) is a fairly severe plagiarist. I wouldn't be surprised if this has never cropped up in what could be considered a RS, because Kanno would presumably sue that RS into oblivion, but if there was, it ought to be mentioned. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.85.175.175 (talk) 23:57, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Any sort of negative words such at that must be fully sourced per WP:BLP. And I'll grant, I've heard a some here and there, but musical plagiarism is almost impossible to prove anyway, as far as intent goes. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 00:15, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
You're right, and I would hesitate to mention it other than the fact that it's pretty undeniable. Not that it's an RS for wikipedia purposes, but listen to this site which compares "Cloud Nine" (a Maaya Sakamoto collaboration) with Laurent Voulzy's "Une Héroine".
http://www.fictionjunction.be/blog/2008/05/05/voldemort-strikes-back-or-the-yoko-kanno-horror-show/
I don't think there's any denying that the Kanno track is taken almost note for note from Voulzy; the facts aren't really in doubt - we just need to find a better source.
What about these threads then ?
http://www.hellgateguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3128
http://www.monkey-pirate.com/ykdb/index.php?topic=8.0
The plagiarism in most of those songs is fairly clear. One can say it's "inspirational" in the case of "Ask DNA" / "Where it's at", but cases like "Face On" / "Finding Beauty" are quite undisputable: it's a freaking sample :( --Kwyxz (talk) 12:16, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
Clear to who? You have to site reliable sources, of which forums almost never are. I don't disagree that her music often times comes very close (though again, weather it's plagiarism or homage is always up for debate) but saying it sounds like it to you is original research, and especially in a living person article such info can't be here without solid back up. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 14:13, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
May I interject? These may not be scholarly sources, but they are solid evidence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOy3AuB5PtI and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yupIJUbFNFg&feature=related I love think that Yoko Kanno is a genius and I love her music but she should cite her sources just like everybody else. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cshape (talk • contribs) 11:26, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
Youtube isn't a reliable source. As true as it may or may not be, we absolutely must be sure, with reliable cites, about any sort of potentially damaging negative accusations, per WP:BLP. And as someone who's tried my hand as composing myself, I know copying things quite closely is not always a concious act. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 13:13, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
I agree similarities can be unconcious in the case of "Ask DNA" / "Where it's At" but come on, did you at least take 10 minutes to listen to "Face On" from Yoko Kanno and then to "Finding Beauty" from Craig Armstrong ? Which kind of "proof" do you need to agree that Kanno sampled the Armstrong song ? It is the same exact thing. It's not even reinterprated, it's a s-a-m-p-l-e ! What kind of other undisputable "evidence" can we find except Kanno herself publicly admitting the fact ? (which is not due to arrive very soon, I'm afraid) Kwyxz (talk) 16:27, 26 March 2009 (UTC)
You should have a look at reliable sources. Then come back. Then go back again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sakuraz (talk • contribs) 14:30, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
I've listened to the first youtube link provided there, and several of them are somewhat questionable. I actually own both songs in three cases, and I'd never connected them. I believe some of the songs are accidentally similar (I don't think the lunatic calm song or either of the spiritualized songs are really that similar to the Kanno songs), and a couple of them are probably intentionally similar (the Hooverphonic one and the Craig Armstrong one), but "plagarizing" in songs is really not the same as in written word. Lots of songs, by lots of composers, both unintentionally and intentionally "quote" other songs- not sample, but recreate. It's like movies- directors will _very often_ intentionally recreate a series of shots from another movie, right down to the camera angles, as a homage to a movie or director they like, probably a lot more often than you think (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HomageShot is a very incomplete list). In music, it gets even more complicated, because you're operating from a pretty small palette. There are only so many chords that sound good together, only so many ways you can have crescendos, only so many A-A-B-A theme/bridge patterns, only so many keys and time signatures. Have 20 jazz musicians with similar style improv over the same series of chords, and at least two of them will sound as alike as any of the songs in that youtube link. So, the citation system is definitely working as intended here- there aren't real music critics freaking out about this because, to a music critic, this is pretty much another day at the office. As far as sampling goes, listen again. "Sampling" doesn't mean it's similar, it doesn't mean the same instruments are playing the same notes, it means it's copied sound. You can add stuff, but not subtract it. None of the comparisons in that youtube clip have convinced me any sampling took place. Even in the face on/finding beauty comparison, which someone said is a "s-a-m-p-l-e", there is zero hi-hat in the kanno version, and hi-hat all over the place throughout the Armstrong version (which is also much faster and much more legato), where did all the hi-hat go? It's not a sample. Listen again. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.196.176.188 (talk • contribs)

Further to all the above, I believe that Laurent Voulzy, composer of "Une Heroine", has been approached about the possibility of bringing some sort of legal action against Kanno. The fact that the Wolf's Rain track "Cloud 9" plagiarises Voulzy's earlier composition is absolutely beyond argument. I understand that Voulzy wasn't that bothered about pursuing it, but I wonder if there's any published record, possibly in a French musical journal, that records what happened here? Nobody's really arguing that Kanno's work, or at least ghosted work with Kanno's name on it, doesn't plagiarise, so the argument here isn't really about the facts. I guess we're really just looking for a good enough source. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.84.90.52 (talk) 23:52, 14 March 2010 (UTC)

Assuming your belief is correct, the fact that he hasn't taken any action should say something to you. Further, saying something is beyond argument doesn't really make it so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.196.176.188 (talk • contribs)
I suspect, but don't know, that Voulzy would have found it extremely difficult to bring a legal action, as a foreigner, against a Japanese national. In any case, that's not really what I was trying to say: the argument here as far as I can see is not about the facts, it's about ways of establishing them with sufficient reliability. Presumably nobody's seriously claiming that the Voulzy/Kanno similarities are coincidental? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.85.166.98 (talk) 23:37, 25 March 2010 (UTC)
http://www.whosampled.com/sampled/Laurent%20Voulzy/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.245.178.103 (talk) 07:32, 19 July 2010 (UTC)

Not an user, but i believe this plagiarism discussion as been going on for QUITE some time, there should at least be noted, as in several other wiki articles, that the discussion exists even tough no official comment have been made from either side, the examples are too many to not be taken into account. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.95.33.64 (talk) 22:44, 11 December 2010 (UTC)

If you can cite reliable sources (as opposed to mere forums, blogs and the like) for this discussion, then you may wish to add this material. If you can't cite reliable sources, then you can't add it. -- Hoary (talk) 01:33, 12 December 2010 (UTC)

Not even a NOTE about her BLATANT plagarism???

Why is it that nobody dares call her out on it? Seriously, anyone with ears and any knowledge of music would know that she copied entire songs note for note without EVER giving original composers any credit. People were sued for far less. This is ridiculous.

And don't give me any of this impossible to prove bs. Plagarism is a *very* provable thing. Take a listen to Sting's "La Belle De sans Regrets" and compare it to Kanno's (and I use that loosely) "Words that We Couldn't Say". Concentrate on that guitar section and tell me it's not taken from Sting note for note. The extent to which she relies on other people's work is staggering. Literally over a hundred of her tracks can easily be treaced back to other people. Which would be fine, if she ever gave proper credit. Kanno truly has no shame and her "fans" are really rather blind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.185.11.176 (talk • contribs)

Great. Write it up in a RS and then get back to us. --Gwern (contribs) 00:35 14 February 2011 (GMT)
Thing is, do we actually need a source beyond the two pieces of music? The above-mentioned "Une Heroine" and "Cloud's Rain" are practically note for note identical (allowing for transposition to suit a female vocal register in Kanno's version). That reality is not subject to being disproven, argued with, or in any other way invalidated. If, for instance, we had a recording of someone talking about the fact that it's plagiarism, that would be valid. A simple comparative recording of the actual tracks is therefore just as valid as a demonstration of the point.

I hate to be a rules lawyer here but I think the RS guidelines are being overinterpreted as "you must find it in a book", which is not what the rules say. I suspect people will also try to argue that this is synthesis; there is, in my view, a clear dividing line between that and what I'm proposing; otherwise, every use of (say) an image to support something would also be synthesis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.85.186.1 (talk) 16:55, 23 May 2011 (UTC)

Once again, there's a couple of issues here. First and foremost, anything potentially damaging to a living person must be completely sourced per BLP regulations. Second, while it the similarity may be observable, you can't prove intent, so unless there's been some sort of actual issue with it (say a lawsuit or at least someone notable directly accusing her of it) calling it actual plagiarism cannot be done. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 18:12, 23 May 2011 (UTC)
It's not really about intent; the article can reasonably state that two pieces of music are similar, providing short sections to illustrate the similarity, without claiming that the similarity is intentional. I'm anxious that we don't get sidetracked by the need to find someone talking about this in print; two pieces of music with identical melodies (which certainly exist) are as reliable a source as wikipedia policy requires. It doesn't say it has to be print journalism. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.152.164.229 (talk) 21:32, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
No, not really. Without a secondary source it's pretty much the definition of |original research. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 22:05, 4 September 2011 (UTC)
I'm slightly concerned that this is becoming an unscratchable itch. I've indicated that sources for this are readily available because the music itself is perfectly acceptable as a source; that being the case you are now attempting to require a "secondary source". If we find a way to satisfy that, will you immediately require a "tertiary source?" Is there any end to this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.84.76.180 (talk) 00:36, 8 September 2011 (UTC)
Ok, let's put it a different way. You COULD, in an article, point out similar or same phrases as long as there's no personal analysis on them (as was just mentioned elsewhere, as long as a trained musician could easily recognize something as a fact, it's fair game)..but putting them on a BLP article might tread the line of still being an accusation. So consider this -- where in this article, as it stands now, would you add what you describe? How would you phrase it? How many examples? What context of what we have now would it fit in without seeming like it's shoehorned in to damn her? See the issues here? If the plagiarism is so damn blatant (and in fact I'd agree it's really pretty close at times) then, considering she IS such a popular composer then surely there should be some source that talks about it, even if it's some obscure Japanese article -- or even a professional CD review site. But we need such a source because ANYTHING that can potentially harm a living person must be kept out of the article (read [[WP:BLP for full details). A few fanboy forum postings doesn't constitute reliable sources. ♫ Melodia Chaconne ♫ (talk) 14:20, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Made-up language in some of her music?

Some of Yoko Kanno's songs seem to have lyrics in a made-up language, such as "Early Bird" (Earth Maiden Arjuna). Did she make up her own language, or is she fluent in Esperanto and/or other languages. Also, if this is true, could we post this info in the article? Thanks in advance! --Freespirit1981 (talk) 16:46, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

I'm afraid you may have difficulty finding WP-acceptable RSs for the lyrics. For example, http://www.fukushuu.org/greenbird/ says that they asked her in person and were told 'Green Bird' (my favorite of those songs) was 'a mixture of English and Latin', but would this site pass muster as a RS? You and I know there's no reason they would lie about it and that they are surely correct - but the rules don't care what we know.
If you want to look for RSs, you may find my custom search engine helpful; I've tried to blacklist the least helpful websites: https://www.google.com/cse/home?cx=009114923999563836576:1eorkzz2gp4 --Gwern (contribs) 17:12 7 October 2011 (GMT)

Thanks Gwern! According to this link, she DOES have a tendency to use a made-up language : [[2]]! I found it using the custom search engine that you kindly provided. can we put this in the article? :D --Freespirit1981 (talk) 17:32, 7 October 2011 (UTC)

Well, that one doesn't look like any less of a fansite than the one I provided, and worse in some respects - not reporting a direct Kanno quote. --Gwern (contribs) 00:59 10 October 2011 (GMT)

Birth date

People setting her birth date to May, please stop. The only source that supports May is an article in a gaming site linked from the Japanese version of the article… that's hardly authoritative, and could even be a typo. The English article links to a number of sources that unanimously say March; which is, in fact, the correct date, as you'd know if you were following Japanese anime-related media last month, when a big fuss was made about her birthday. Also, google agrees; feel free to dig there for an acceptable reference — as far as I'm concerned IMDB (already linked in the article) works.--Lalo Martins (talk) 01:24, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I have found a definitive source that shows her birth date is March 18th. The profile page on the official website of TETSU100%, a band which Kanno has been a part of for over a decade. The page appears to have gone up somewhat recently and even has things that you won't be able to find elsewhere like her blood type, the city she was born in, and a picture of her signature. There does not appear to be a definitive source for her birth year and so I removed it. Since all of the websites referenced here state she was born on March 19th, which is incorrect, they can't be trusted for her birth year. Thenextday (talk) 21:05, 18 November 2013 (UTC)


According to the French wiki for Youko Kanno, her birth year in 1964. They don't give any comment from where they took this information however.Liclic (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:19, 1 January 2016 (UTC)

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actual CD releases

I'm a fan of Kanno, but only in a small way. Scanning the discography here, is there anyone capable of of noting which of the soundtracks have been put out on CD (or perhaps grouped for paid download)? It looks like a lot of effort for anyone who doesn't own all the discs or is at least MUCH more a fanatic than me. But it is, after all, a discography rather than a listing of undertaken projects.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 23:26, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Alright, I'll elaborate. There exists an article for Seatbelts (band), where the discography has eight studio entries, of which most are from (or inspired by) Cowboy Bebop. The info for these CDs is collected in Music of Cowboy Bebop. Everything is rather neat and orderly.
Yet the discography for Yoko Kanno is lacking. For example, I know it makes no mention of the Be Human CD — issued as by Kanno, not Seatbelts. The article Be Human has nothing to do with anime. I finally managed to locate Kanno's album at Music of Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex#Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex "be Human" which has to be a record-setting stupid-long Wikipedia link.
Be Human is a fine example of the soundtrack composer's art, and after years still surprises me at how much it reflects the story arc of the often irritating, ultimately noble Tachicoma. The omission here raises the question of whether other albums have been overlooked here.
Weeb Dingle (talk) 05:29, 2 May 2018 (UTC)
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