Talk:Tornado outbreak of December 10–11, 2021

Table splitout?

This would follow SIZERULE if the table is split out, per Wikipedia talk:Article size talk page discussion…thoughts? 173.68.1.128 (talk) 17:06, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

See the discussion just above this one. Elijahandskip (talk) 17:09, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

Yeah, another "random" anon trying to restart a closed discussion. United States Man (talk) 23:17, 24 October 2022 (UTC)

I don’t have an opinion on this, but the above discussion was not closed. 69.118.235.133 (talk) 20:40, 26 October 2022 (UTC)

Fun. This discussion was once again started by the same SOCK that started the section above. I think this is a done-deal that it won’t happen with two separate discussions started by the same blocked editor. Elijahandskip (talk) 15:24, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

There has to be some solution, somehow. This article can’t stay the way it is or it violates wikipedia guidelines. Maybe splitting isn’t the best one, but something has to work.71.183.166.47 (talk) 18:41, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Quit using different IP addresses to act like you are more than one person. No one takes you seriously about anything. United States Man (talk) 23:30, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

"2021 Tornado outbreak in the Southern United States" listed at Redirects for discussion

An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect 2021 Tornado outbreak in the Southern United States and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 October 29#2021 Tornado outbreak in the Southern United States until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TornadoLGS (talk) 20:13, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Slow edit war between IPs and United States Man

Both of you please discuss your edits here. You appear to both be in a slow edit war. Instead of reverting without explanation (or with unhelpful edit summaries such as just "no") please discuss here so we can reach a consensus. ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 19:11, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

The Andrew5 sock keeps adding inaccurate information just to spite me. Nothing really to discuss. United States Man (talk) 19:14, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

How dare you call my information inaccurate or accuse me as an Andrew5 sock with only flimsy evidence. [personal attack removed] --170.24.150.113 (talk) 19:16, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

You say they're a sock? Mind linking me to the SPI in which the iP was confirmed as a sock? ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 19:16, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Here. The admin admitted the fact but refused to block the IP addresses because the user hops around anyway. The user also shows the same defensive and aggressive behavior on every IP address that is used, so WP:DUCK applies. United States Man (talk) 19:19, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Nevermind I found it via the IPs contribs. WP:DUCK from what I"m seeing ― Blaze Wolf^Talk_{Blaze Wolf#6545} 19:19, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

Deprecate an article from Accuweather from Tornado outbreak of December 10–11, 2021

Is the following Accuweather article, 2 long-track tornadoes confirmed amongst rare December swarm by Allison Finch, a reliable source of information for this article as well as for the 2021 Western Kentucky tornado? (See this background section for further information)

Option 1: Deprecate (blacklist from this article)

Option 2: Allow Accuweather article to be referenced in the article, without the non-reference content from sockmaster.

Option 3: Allow Accuweather article to be referenced and information being added by the sockmaster be allowed in the article.

Elijahandskip (talk) 02:09, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

Background

One editor named User:Andrew5, a well-known sockmaster, has been attempted to add a specific article from Accuweather to this Wikipedia article for months. The article in question is 2 long-track tornadoes confirmed amongst rare December swarm by Allison Finch. I will link the multiple attempts below. Based on this behavior from a sockmaster (ongoing for at least 6 months) & overall community consensus to exclude the Accuweather article from the Wikipedia article, a formal discussion is needed to help determine whether or not the article and material is viable for the article(s) or should be deprecated (blacklisted) from the articles.

Sockmaster attempts (going from recent to oldest, with all accounts in question blocked): [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7], [8] (and others you can see in the edit history).

Discussion

• Option 1: Looking back through the article’s edit history, this sock master has been determined since the beginning of November 2022 to add the information as well as that Accuweather article. Seeing how the only person interested or wanting the information in the article is violating Wikipedia policy to get it done, I believe there is an ulterior motive at play here, which most likely means the Accuweather article violates WP:RS. Also, with numerous editors expressing their opinions on excluding it from the article prior to this discussion, there is a solid consensus already established prior to this formal RfC. Side note: This RfC was started with the hope of a formal blacklisting of that URL from Wikipedia, since this and 2021 Western Kentucky tornado are the only articles it even pertains too. Elijahandskip (talk) 02:09, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

  (1) Is there a Wikipedia-wide consensus on the reliability of AccuWeather articles already? If it is reliable, we should include the statement and the AccuWeather article as its reference. If it is not a reliable source, see (2).

  (2) Are there any other potential references which confirm the statement the IP accounts are attempting to add? If there are, we can and probably should add both the statement and those references. If there are no others, case closed. Penitentes (talk) 03:17, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

As to part 1, all I found is Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard/Archive 365#AccuWeather and The Weather Channel from January 2022, but no formal discussion was made. As for part 2, I have no idea. That said, wouldn't a community consensus basically already be in place since the only person advocating for it's inclusion is the sockmaster and multiple other editors are not wanting it's inclusion? I think the question isn't fully whether AccuWeather in general should be deprecated, but rather if this article specifically should be deprecated from this article, due to it's inclusion being driven by a sockmaster. Elijahandskip (talk) 03:29, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

We can evaluate the content completely aside from the sockpuppet activity, in my opinion. It usually doesn't bode well when a sockpuppet evading a ban tries to repeatedly add content to an article, that's true, but the issue isn't that they are trying to add something, it's that they are evading repeated bans and using workaround accounts to do so. In my view this RFC shouldn't be about deprecating this specific AccuWeather source at all. If we chose to do so, what would that imply? First, that AccuWeather is not a reliable source, and second, that we should deprecate sources used by ban evaders in their attempted edits.

It feels like this RFC should be about whether the statement that User:Andrew5 has been attempting to add should be added or not. I tend to think it's notable enough to mention that the Bowling Green tornado had the second-longest path ever recorded in December, but the edit history of the article may show, as you say, that the majority disagrees. Either way, I think that's the more appropriate conversation to have. Penitentes (talk) 03:42, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

A RfC is not required for this at this moment. You can just start a talk page discussion, please refer to WP:RFCBEFORE. There is no prior discussion on the article talk or archive discussing this specific issue. Regarding sockpuppet concerns, bring that to the attention of WP:SPI. ~ Cyclonebiskit (chat) 02:27, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

@Cyclonebiskit: per Wikipedia:Deprecated sources, the process is done generally through an RfC. Also, with the amount of edit summary discussions (over the last 6 months) as well as Wikipedia:Reliable sources/Noticeboard#Should AccuWeather be deprecated? (started and ended 2 hours earlier), there has been enough discussion (multiple times since November 2022) to satisfy WP:RFCBEFORE. As stated in my sidenote to my !vote option, I started this with the hope of a formal deprecation, so an RfC is needed for that as well as to avoid canvassing concerns since per WP:RSN, discussions like this are generally held of article talk pages, not a noticeboard. WP:SPI is already taken care of since the sockmaster keeps getting blocked. But for the source deprecation process, an RfC is the best option. Elijahandskip (talk) 02:35, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

You don't deprecate an individual news article. If you get a consensus to remove it, then you can remove it; there's no need to deprecate it.

Is this source inaccurate? Is it biased? Those are the relevant questions to deprecation. If this is a concern for the entire accuweather domain, and deprecation is warranted, that should be discussed at WP:RSN. Elli (talk | contribs) 04:40, 23 April 2023 (UTC)

• Comment — Since it appears starting an RfC was not the right call, I have removed the RfC tag. However, I still hold to this discussion to blacklist that AccuWeather source from this article. Elijahandskip (talk) 04:50, 23 April 2023 (UTC)