Talk:Tiny Thompson

copyedits...

The content I removed was superfluous information. I also moved some content and removed redundant content. I spruced up and simplified the intro, and made sentences throughout read better. I simplified and tweaked sentences. I'm not happy you reverted everything. I am happy to discuss particulars. I have a lot of suggestions. Kingturtle (talk) 20:50, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

It wasn't superflous information, it added context to the article. Maxim_(talk) 20:53, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

A few comments:

• I know that the goaltender is vital to a team's success, but sometimes the narrative is more about the Bruins than about Thompson. It is a delicate balance to work on.

• Been doing some tweaking here, may do more. Actually, there's really not that much anymore IMHO. Maxim_(talk) 21:21, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

• I think Paul is mentioned awfully late in the article. Can you work him into the Early life section? Kingturtle (talk) 21:04, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

• Fixed. Maxim_(talk) 21:21, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

The intro summary looks better. Maybe "Over his NHL career, he recorded 81 shutouts, which is the sixth-most of any goaltender" could go in front of "He was a member of one Stanley Cup-winning team." But not necessarily. Kingturtle (talk) 21:46, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

• Reworked lead. --Maxim_(talk) 21:23, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

It would be nice to know how the young Thompson befriended the elder Reid in the first place. Kingturtle (talk) 03:17, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I've been doing investigation on this "fact". Even though it's a reputable book, it smells. I found it dubious—the date don't agree (when Reid played for Tigers, Thompson was an adult and actually spent time in the US!). I've removed that part, so there is now only one paragraph for early life. --Maxim_(talk) 21:23, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

These NHL accomplishments should also be noted:

• His Points Percentage of .8750 in 1929-30 remains the NHL record.[1]
• He is fifth in the NHL in lifetime GAA with 2.077.[2]
• When he retired his 81 shutouts was 2nd only to George Hainsworth's 94.[3]
• He led NHL goalies in games played ten times and wins five times. [4]
• Tiny's 38 wins in 1929-30 remained the Bruins' season record until Pete Peeters won 40 in 1982-83 (53 years later!) No Bruin has had more than 37 since.[5]
• Tiny is the all-time Bruins leader for games, wins, shut outs and GAA.[6]

Cheers, Kingturtle (talk) 21:54, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

Ooh, excellent work. :-) But where did you take the info from? ;-) Maxim_(talk) 22:08, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I added the links that I used. Kingturtle (talk) 22:20, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I added this info and some from the post-NHL career section to re-create a previously-removed stubby legacy section. Maxim_(talk) 22:42, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I find it a little odd that he was called "Tiny" as a joke because he was 5 ft 10 in as a teenager - and then he was 5 ft 10 in as an adult. Did he stop growing at 14? Kingturtle (talk) 23:10, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

It's not out of the realm of possibility. He would probably have had to be fairly big at that age to continue as far as he did, to eventually make it to the NHL. Maxim_(talk) 23:14, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

I was asked on my talk page to comment here, so I'll add a couple quick thoughts relating to the above comments:

• I thought the copy-editing by Kingturtle did a good job of tightening the prose, but I wasn't happy to see the removal of content. If a middle ground could be struck between the two, that would be great.

• My initial was reaction was pretty bad, {{trout}} may be delivered to my talkpage... ;-) Maxim_(talk) 14:29, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

• The photo needs to be moved back to the Playing style section. As a fair-use photo, it should be illustrating his style, which is the purpose of the photo. Having it in the infobox would amount to illustrating what he looked like, which isn't a strong enough reason for a fair-use picture to be used in most cases, including this one.

• You and me are the only ones pushing for that, while Kingturtle, Juliancolton, and Wizardman want otherwise. I'm thinking of soliciting external opinion via the admin's noticeboard before taking action. What do you think? (We have to be careful! The article will start to fail 1e! :p ) Maxim_(talk) 14:29, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

• An outside opinion or two, preferably from a fair-use expert, would be good to have. My only question is if the admin noticeboard is too general for such a question. This talk page looks like it might be of help. Giants2008 (17-14) 02:43, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

• Asked there. Maxim_(talk) 14:21, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

• "sometimes the narrative is more about the Bruins than about Thompson." I couldn't agree more. This might be the reason that I was reluctant to support. Of course the team's performance should be described, but I agree that too much of the article is about Boston. One idea would be to use lead-ins like "Thompson helped the Bruins" or similar a few times. This would help tie in his performance with the team's performance. Also, can individual playoff stats be found going this far back? If available, they would make a big difference in connecting player and team, and would serve to beef up the article a bit.

• I've excised a fair chunk of Boston-related stuff, and actually split it into five paragraphs: first season (a lot of notable events), second season (.875 winning percentage), third season (empty net), mostly fifth season (super-long game), and the fifth para goes up until his last season in Boston. I've fixed that now, the second step could be adding a bit more (probably something statistical, should be relevant...) about Thompson, if necessary. You suggested playoff stats—they're certainly available—so should I supplement the articles with them? Maxim_(talk) 14:29, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

• Seeing as there are a lot of statistics already, I wouldn't give his stats for every playoff series he ever played in, but a few key ones would be nice. His first season already has one, which I mostly like: "Thompson recorded three shutouts in the five playoffs games, and gave only three goals." That's what I'm looking for, though it should be "gave up". (Even when I'm not trying to be picky, I'm still picky :-)) One place where playoff stats could help is the Red Wings section, which is at the moment the shortest in the article. That's just one idea, though; I don't have the stats in front of me. The trick will be to determine which ones are most important to have in the article. The ones where he allowed few goals per game (like the one I mentioned) or gave up many may be good candidates. Giants2008 (17-14) 02:43, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

• Added a few. Maxim_(talk) 14:21, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

• I highly approve of the additions in Legacy. Again, it's all statistics that have been added, but they do make sense here, and the section isn't worth having without them. Giants2008 (17-14) 05:03, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

• Yay, I've done something good. :D [a tone of slight relief. after hacking back and forth some much.] Maxim_(talk) 14:29, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

Born in Sandon, British Columbia

Does anyone have any more information of his life in Sandon? Was he just born there, but moved very early? It's a ghost town now. Perhaps his father was a miner. I was at the museum there, and remember seeing a short clip about Tiny, but don't recall it saying much about his life there. --CutOffTies (talk) 02:28, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

According to the book Players, Thompson's family moved to Calgary when he was two. Doesn't mention anything about why the family was there to begin with. Resolute 02:40, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Thank you for the quick reply! --CutOffTies (talk) 02:43, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Photos

Why so many photographs of others? The captions are useful however I think the photos of Charlie Gardiner, Art Ross, Georges Vézina and George Hainsworth introduce more confusion than context. Oh and well done on the TFA. 174.119.19.211 (talk) 05:14, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

The article looks like walls of text without them: this is how it looks. And, as you say, the captions are useful. Unfortunately, I've been unable to find free images of Thompson. Are there any images that you think should be removed? Maxim_(talk) 13:49, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

I would definitely lose the Vezina picture, as it crushes the screen on a laptop at 1024x768, and adds very little to the article. I would personally agree that the photos of other players is a tad confusing. Do you have anything that could be added to a quote box to break up the text? I've used such a device to break up text walls in other articles. Resolute 18:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Got rid of the Vezina pic. I don't recall anything in terms of quotes for Thompson; it seems to me that he was more of the quiet-goalie type. Maxim_(talk) 21:39, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Personally I prefer the walls of text rather than the photos which I feel are off topic. How about putting the captions containing interesting tidbits in quote boxes to help break up the text?

As with the Hainsworth photograph, any Canadian photo of Thompson taken in 1949 or earlier is in the public domain per {{PD-Canada}}. Here's one from the Montreal Gazette. Although I have no evidence, it would be reasonable to expect that any American photos are also in the public domain as it is unlikely that the owner would have filed a renewal of the copyright with the US library of congress 28 years later. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.179.122 (talk) 05:52, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Given the objections here, I have removed the images. I would like to extend a huge thank-you to 99.246 for the Gazette link—I estimate that at least a third of the time I have spent on this article was related to finding a free image, and that photograph certainly is PD-Canada. I have thus replaced the previous fair-use image. Once again, thanks so much. Maxim_(talk) 16:49, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. For proper disclosure and fairness, I am both 99.246.179.122 and 174.119.19.211 (original poster).

I found another picture originally from la Presse which should also fall under PD-Canada. The pose looks like Thompson, but he looks like a young teenager; it may even be hand drawn. There are also two PD-Canada photographs containing Thompson on a habseyesontheprize.com page, but Thompson isn't very clear in them. 99.246.179.122 (talk) 04:53, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

I've seen the La Presse picture before; it's not PD-Canada because it's not a photograph. The ones from habsontheprize.com are most likely PD because they were taken at the Forum, but as you said, Thompson's not well-visible, and in terms of FA requirements, I think they would like better sourcing as to where the image originally came from, other than a fan site. Maxim_(talk) 15:50, 26 May 2011 (UTC)

First time brothers played each other

I don't think the sentence "That season marked the first time two brothers opposed each other in an NHL game, as Thompson's brother Paul played for the New York Rangers" is correct. I think that Cy Denneny and Corbett Denneny must have faced each other. Cy played for Ottawa and Corbett for Toronto in the very first NHL season. ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 21:11, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

The Toronto Globe of December 24, 1917 lists Corbett playing for Toronto, and Cy playing for Ottawa, in the December 22, game between Toronto and Ottawa. See [7]] at Google news archives. ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 21:23, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Interesting, the HHOF said that they were the first playoff matchup between brothers. Perhaps they meant it when one of the brothers was a goalie; they mention the Espositos being the next similar playoff match-up. Maxim_(talk) 21:44, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Could be, but not simply brothers, and not the finals. Wonder where they got their information? In the 1922 NHL playoffs between Toronto and Ottawa, the Dennenys also faced each other then. They faced each other in the 1923 Stanley Cup final too, but Corbett was with Vancouver then. I don't know who were the first brothers to oppose each other in the Stanley Cup final, but it was probably not the Dennenys. ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 21:54, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Found that the Cleghorns played off against each other in 1919. So there's that too. The List of family relations in the NHL claims that the Dennenys and Bouchers were the first brothers to face off in a Stanley Cup final in 1923. ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 22:09, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

So, it could be revised to something like "Tiny was the first NHL goaltender to face his brother (Paul) in NHL play." ʘ alaney2k ʘ (talk) 22:13, 24 May 2011 (UTC)

Perhaps, but I'd be more comfortable with a direct source for that. I think that it would be best to leave those parts hidden for now. Maxim_(talk) 16:39, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

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Fair read

I just read this article and considered it a fairly good read. Some issues was the short lead that seems to also be short on article summary.

I do not see a need to include "Biographical information and career statistics from NHL.com, or Eliteprospects.com, or Hockey-Reference.com, or Legends of Hockey, or The Internet Hockey Database". Because we have templates doesn't mean we need to list all the editors favorite sites or advertise them. How many sites do we need to list to provide player stats? We end up with link farming that is part of WP:What Wikipedia is not. Otr500 (talk) 12:09, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

• Different sites contain different information. The Internet Hockey Database has been the go-to site for the hockey Wikiproject for fifteen years or more, and is very accurate. Hockey-reference has more advanced stats and miscellaneous info such as salaries, numbers worn and suchlike, Eliteprospects more information about minor hockey and European leagues. Legends of Hockey is the official site of the Hockey Hall of Fame, and includes genuine biographical information on many players. These sites all have value, they are all heavily trafficked, none are vanity sites, and I wouldn't suggest that any are the pet project of one editor or another. Ravenswing 23:46, 4 February 2020 (UTC)