Talk:The Zodiac: Cosmic Sounds

Cite me[edit]

Its big claim to fame is that it is the first album to feature the Moog synthesizer although many, including those who worked on it, claim it was preceded by the even more obscure Stones.

Can anyone provide some evidence for this? -- Krash 02:37, 6 January 2006 (UTC)[reply]

"Cosmic Sounds" by The Zodiac OR "The Zodiac" by Cosmic Sounds OR "The Zodiac : Cosmic Sounds" ??[edit]

I've owned this album since the 60s and always thought it was The Zodiac by Cosmic Sounds, rather than the reverse as this page implies. Jac Holzman's book refers to it as The Zodiac : Cosmic Sounds. Clearly whoever performed on it were not "a band" in any sense, rather a bunch of session musicians and voice artists brought together for a one-off project. If the variants are linked up via redirections it probably doesn't matter much, but I do question whether there's a need for one page on the so-called band and another on the album itself. Ghmyrtle 13:51, 27 September 2006 (UTC)Ghmyrtle 13:50, 27 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Article title[edit]

Discussion moved from here.

You seem have to put this article back with a very unconventional title. [1], [2], [3], [4] all point to it correctly being titled Cosmic Sounds. You seem to think these, however, are incorrect. I would go with the majority of sources and simply call it Cosmic Sounds. Anything about them being called Zodiac seems less relevant as their portfolio stretches only to this CD so that could just be mentioned in passing I would tyhink. Their article seemed rightfully speedy deleted however. 92.0.37.98 (talk) 09:13, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I do indeed think those sources are incorrect, and they have no doubt used that format to get round the fact that the album has an unconventional title, as you say. There was no group called "The Zodiac" - that was part of the title of this project. It was put together by session musicians who grouped together for no other purpose than this one album. The authoritative history I've cited, by Richie Unterberger here, makes that pretty clear. Ghmyrtle (talk) 13:17, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

The Source depite him having credibility would fall under WP:SPS, wouldn't it? It's important to consider also that wikipedia aims to be verifiable, it's not to do with if we think it's the truth. The sources I presented are more numerous that your solitary one and the sources seem pretty credible also. 92.0.37.98 (talk) 14:06, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Your sources are two commercial sites which use a standard album title / artist format, one review, and Allmusic. In addition to the Unterberger site (which, although his own site, is republishing here a published work, that is the sleevenotes to the 2002 Water reissue - although I accept that might not meet strict interpretations of "independence") I would cite this, this, and Jac Holzman's autobiography which - in the middle of a list of records otherwise in title/artist format - also specifically names it as "The Zodiac Cosmic Sounds". Now, if you were to suggest that the project should be called The Zodiac Cosmic Sounds or The Zodiac - Cosmic Sounds (or even The Zodiac Cosmic Sounds by Mort Garson), I would have no objection whatsoever. But to imply that it "should" (on the basis of Google numbers and commercial sites using a standard descriptive format) be called "Cosmic Sounds" by "The Zodiac" (or for that matter "The Zodiac" by "Cosmic Sounds", which is what I had assumed until recently - see my 2006 comment above) is not only wrong but counter to the most authoritative sources available - which include Unterberger as well as the books I've cited. "Cosmic Sounds" redirects straight here, and "The Zodiac" now directs to a disambiguation page where it is clearly listed, so it's not going to confuse anyone anyway. But at least this exercise has given me (us?) a few more references to use in the article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 18:08, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I guess we could fire sources at each other all day without reaching consensus though. I wasn't implying on the basis on google numbers though, the weight of evidence seemed to lean away from the unconventional title, and commercial sites were just the first I found, took me 2 minutes to find these ones aswell which aren't commericial. Originally I was pushing for Cosmic Sounds by The Zodiac, but sources seem to be random as to the order of these two. The album cover to me is saying "We're The Zodiac, and this is Cosmic Sounds", but obviously there is little clarity with that. Perhaps leave it as it is... maybe move it to The Zodiac: Cosmic Sounds the no space before the colon looks a little better grammatically? 92.0.37.98 (talk) 19:11, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

I would say The Zodiac: Cosmic Sounds or The Zodiac Cosmic Sounds, I like the grammar in the former, makes it readable, but the latter is what the record label founder referred to it as. 92.0.37.98 (talk) 19:18, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

OK, let's call it evens. When I bought the album 40 years ago (really!) I read it as being "The Zodiac" by "Cosmic Sounds". If you want to move the article so there's no gap before the colon, that's fine by me. Ghmyrtle (talk) 20:46, 23 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Ghmyrtle: The book, 'Analog Days' has info on this album. Your thoughts are verified that there is/was no 'group' named the Zodiac (or Cosmic Sounds as you had thought after buying the vinyl) connected to the album. The form used by Holzman is accurate - the entire phrase is the albums title. I know this is well after the fact, but wanted to include the info here for future readers. THX1136 (talk) 16:13, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you! (Yes, I'm still here.....) Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:27, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Dead external links to Allmusic website – January 2011[edit]

Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the {{Allmusic}} template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=10:l21ibkg9aakvlink

--CactusBot (talk) 17:58, 1 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Updated AllMusic link, forgot to explain edit before saving. THX1136 (talk) 16:03, 11 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Influence on the Moody Blues[edit]

In the inlay notes to "The Best of the Moody Blues" [Decca cd #535 800-2), Justin Hayward, vocalist and guitarist with the Moody Blues, is quoted as saying "The Zodiac: Cosmic Sounds" was a huge influence on the Moody Blues in changing their music direction from that of a British r&b band towards the psychedlic rock sounds that the Moodies became famous for from the late 1960's and beyond. Hayward recommends "The Zodiac: Cosmic Sounds" to anyone interested in the roots of psychedelia. I think this fact needs to be incorporated into the main article, as the Moody Blues made some 6 or more extremely successful albums using this concept. Mike Pindar, the keyboard player with the Moody Blues, had worked at the factory that built the Mellotron, and he afterwards made it famous throughout the world. The recommendation by Hayward contrasts rather sharply with the notes found in the article about the influence of this album.

As to the controversy involving the title of the album and the status of the "band", it seems to me that this album was a one-off project and was never meant to be a "band" in the sense of an ongoing musical group. Kaye is well known for her work as a session bass player, part of the group of session players known as "The Wrecking Crew", who played on all sorts of projects for many years (including playing guitar on the Champs' "Tequila." Alex Hassilev, the producer, was one of the original Limeliters, and his role as a producer was his first. Cyrus Faryar, the narrator, had been part of the folk group,The Whiskeyhill Singers, that Dave Guard assembled after Guard left the Kingston Trio, and that is probably how Hassilev met him. I cannot think all of these were meant to form into any kind of band: they were just all well-known members of the west coast recording community, assembled for a project.Daniel Sparkman (talk) 16:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Re the Moody Blues, if you have the source material I suggest you add the information to the article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 17:51, 30 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]