Talk:Stanley Cup Finals

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Stanley Cup Final, NOT Stanley Cup Finals[edit]

2011[edit]

It is the Stanley Cup Final, not the Stanley Cup Finals. The article needs to be corrected to reflect this. Check NHL.com if you need confirmation. http://www.nhl.com/cup/round4/index.html?intcmpid=nhl-pc-mast -- Aaron J. Hill — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.244.82 (talk) 23:12, 15 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Per our policy on article titles, Wikipedia uses the name that is most frequently used to refer to the subject in English-language reliable sources, NOT the NHL's relatively recent (a few years' old) official preference (see also Wikipedia's guidelines on formatting trademarks and essay on using official names). Current consensus is that most sources still use the "S"[1] than not using it.[2] Zzyzx11 (talk) 05:43, 23 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

2014[edit]

I think it's finally time to switch over. Many sources are correctly calling it the Final at this point, and they did to differentiate themselves from the NBA. Keeping it the same based on the past is rather silly, as is the policy is sticking with what people wrongly call it. Arusnak (talk) 20:11, 31 May 2014 (UTC) [1][reply]

It's always been the Finals and grammatically that's correct. Jmj713 (talk) 21:49, 31 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

-- Gramatically finals makes little sense. It isn't multiple finals taking place, it's 1 event. Game 1 and Game 2 aren't separate Finals. Arusnak (talk) 02:23, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It is a series of several events or games, not one single, knockout match. That may seem incorrect but is acceptable now. I'm sure there are several articles out there trying to explain or debate this ongoing language change. Zzyzx11 (talk) 04:36, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I do not see "many" sources that have switched over. @Arusnak:, you only cited a source from TSN, which of course they are going to use the official NHL spelling since they still have regional TV rights to a few NHL teams. As for third-party sources that have no direct invested interest in the league, I still see a significant use of the "s".[3][4][5][6][7][8][9] -- not enough to warrant a change. Zzyzx11 (talk) 01:28, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

It's just so silly to let the media decide what the title should be, rather than go off it's been properly called for several years now. It'd be like titling the World Series "The Fall Classic" because a bunch of sources like to call it that. FWIW, here's a few more I've come across, and these are places a bit more in the know for hockey than Forbes or Huff Post... Cite error: A <ref> tag is missing the closing </ref> (see the help page). [2] [3] [4]

If you Google 'NHL news', 5 sites (TSN, CBS, FOX, BR, The Hockey News) are using Final, while only 2 are using Finals exclusively (ESPN & Yahoo). Sporting News and USA Today are using both. Arusnak (talk) 02:22, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

RE: "It's just so silly to let the media decide what the title should be". That is how Wikipedia's policies on article titles work: the common name used by reliable sources, not the official name. If the World Series was commonly called the "The Fall Classic", then that would be the title of the article. But it is not because MLB did not do what the NHL did in allowing the media to use a term for several decades, and then turn around and officially change it to something else. Or the NHL scheduling its season at the same time as the NBA and that league's use of "NBA Finals" with an "S". Or dictionaries starting to official list the full definition of the noun "final" as "usually used in plural".[10]
Also, look at these inconsistencies: The Hockey News is not using the singular exclusively, see the third paragraph of this[11] where they use "Stanley Cup finals" with a "S". Neither is Fox Sports: Although this article uses the singular in the headline, the plural "Stanley Cup finalS" still appears in the second paragraph of the body of the article. We also have the same inconsistent spelling problem with this CBS Sports.com article where the phrase "Cup finals opener" with a "S" seems to suddenly appear in one of the last paragraphs. And this BR article uses the S in the headline but not in the body. This inconsistency from "places a bit more in the know for hockey" does not show confidence that they have completely made the transition yet. Zzyzx11 (talk) 02:55, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

"finals": the deciding part or parts of a sports or other competition. Jmj713 (talk) 09:04, 1 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

2015[edit]

I also think it's time to switch. There are enough media sources using "Final" besides the NHL using it officially. And plus, to the last person to comment that finals was the deciding part of a sports competition didn't know: Merriam-Webster's definition of "final": "the last competition (such as a game or race) or set of competitions in a series". The reason why it says "usually used in the plural" in regards to games makes sense for individual sports, but gramatically, "Finals" refers to more than one final. More than one final isn't Game 1 and Game 7 - more than one final is 2012 and 2013's final, for instance. It also says the definition of "finals" in the plural is for final exams since there are multiple exams. http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/final

I go into further detail here. NWRGeek (talk) 17:55, 30 May 2015 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that it should be "Final" rather than "Finals". Even the NHL website refers to it as the Cup Final (not Finals). GLG GLG (talk) 23:22, 2 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, the NHL has been using "Final" without the S on its web site for the past few years, but the official name is not the reason why there was a move war/page naming dispute back in 2008. It regarded WP:COMMONAME: whether most reliable sources were copying the NHL's official name and web site, and using "Final" instead of "Finals". Back then most reliable sources were still using the S, similar to the spelling of NBA Finals. The question now is whether there is majority of reliable sources now that no longer use the S. The official name used by the NHL and its web site are irrelevant. Zzyzx11 (talk) 06:35, 3 June 2015 (UTC)[reply]

2020 - It's been 10 years and you guys are still on your high horse on this.

"also known as the Stanley Cup Final among various media."

NO MEDIA OUTLETS are using Finals in this day and age.

You can clearly see here Finals is more popular. Jmj713 (talk) 15:03, 20 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

What does search trends have to do with media usage? That's some heavy goal post moving.

You're more than welcome to start another RFC, but it likely won't change anything as there hasn't been any real change in the last four years. Also the articles in question are subject to Canadian English standards and that doesn't help your position. Deadman137 (talk) 03:16, 22 September 2020 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=453537
  2. ^ http://www.cbssports.com/nhl/eye-on-hockey/24577212/new-york-rangers-stanley-cup-ticket-prices-are-already-crazy
  3. ^ http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/57176-Rangers-goalie-Henrik-Lundqvist-finds-happy-place-en-route-to-Cup-final.html
  4. ^ http://www.sportingnews.com/nhl/story/2014-05-30/new-york-rangers-advanced-stats-analysis-henrik-lundqvist-canadiens-stanley-cup-final

2016: RFC on Stanley Cup Finals vs. Final[edit]

I have opened an RFC on the long standing Stanley Cup Finals vs. Final issue at Talk:2016 Stanley Cup Finals#RFC: Stanley Cup Finals vs. Final. I thought we should discuss this early before this year's series starts next month. There has been a problem during the past few years when the issue was not raised by someone until the series was already underway, and thus too late to do much. Thanks. Zzyzx11 (talk) 20:11, 1 May 2016 (UTC)[reply]

The RFC ended with no consensus to rename the articles at this time. Zzyzx11 (talk) 10:15, 13 June 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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Stanley Cup Finals vs. Stanley Cup Final[edit]

I've started a discussion about the "s" here Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Ice Hockey/Archive78#Stanley Cup Finals vs Stanley Cup Final. Chime in if you have a thought about it. Masterhatch (talk) 16:51, 2 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

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