Talk:Russian fake news laws

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Requested move 14 March 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moot. After the initial RM was posted, the scope of the article has expanded through ordinary editing, and it now covers multiple laws rather than one law. The RM initiator has boldly moved the article from "Russia fake news law" to the plural form, "Russian fake news laws", to reflect the expanded scope. Typically, we'd frown on editors posting an RM and then boldly moving the article while the RM is still going, but in this case, it seems appropriate and efficient, whether as WP:IAR or just natural WP:BOLD editing. In any event, the expansion of the scope of the article, and the new, plural, title, renders this original RM moot. Anyone should feel free to revert this close without discussing with me first if they disagree. (non-admin closure) Levivich 17:12, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Russia fake news law → Federal Law No. 32-FZ of 4 March 2022 – There's more Russian laws regarding fake news. As the article itself indicates, this is only an amendment. Super Ψ Dro 14:14, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

however the name Federal Law No. 32-FZ of 4 March 2022 is too difficult. Tsans2 (talk) 15:46, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's not a Wikipedia policy. Super Ψ Dro 14:48, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Notice In Russian Wikipedia, "Закон о фейках" (literally "Law of fakes") redirect to this article.--El caballero de los Leones (talk) 15:56, 14 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

A proper name such as "Law of Fakes" would be less ambiguous than this name, so if it is shown to be commonly used in English-language sources, I'd support it. Super Ψ Dro 14:48, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comments: "Federal law" would be ambiguous - US? Australia? Switzerland? Some types of laws get allocated their formal names as titles in en.Wikipedia, but in this case the law is best known in the English-language press more informally. 2022 Russian fake news law or 2022 Russia fake news law would seem more likely names which people would use to find the article. Alternatively, the article could be expanded to cover the history of Russian Federation (i.e. post-Soviet) fake news laws and amendments. I had to fix the article after seeing that a Thomson Reuters reference of 2019 was used in the lead as a source for the 2022 law, but covering all of these in one overview article would seem reasonable. Boud (talk) 13:30, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

"Federal Law" wouldn't be ambigous because of "No. 32-FZ". I doubt there are more than one Federal Laws No. 32-FZ, specially emitted in 4 March 2022. I can accept "2022 Russian fake news law", but I am not sure if this is the common practice in Wikipedia. I did a quick search when I first opened this RM and saw that most of articles on laws were titled with their formal names. There should be some kind of policy or recommendation from Wikipedia or a WikiProject somewhere. Super Ψ Dro 14:48, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's why I wrote "some ... get allocated their formal names" and made comments rather than oppose. You don't need a formal policy - the recommendation is to propose guidelines as they emerge from practice rather than defining them a priori. People who write/edit articles about laws on Wikipedia probably haven't felt the need to describe the pattern.

What does "FZ" mean?

To get more comments (even maybe support or oppose), you could invite people at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Law. Boud (talk) 19:21, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This article should not be renamed. This article should be splitted. Just because the article describes 2 different laws (2019 and 2022). Or rather even 3 laws, because, technically, the 2022 law is 2 laws, namely, the Russian Federal Law of 4 March 2022 №32-FZ and the Russian Federal Law of 4 March 2022 №31-FZ. It's so obvious. K8M8S8 (talk) 20:24, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

~~Move to 2022 Russian fake news law~~. Most reliable sources that cover this law only refer to it as a "fake news" law (singular, not plural), rather than by its actual name. Per WP:COMMONNAME, the article title should include some form of the phrase fake news law. (The article should still mention the law's full name in the first sentence) Adding 2022 to the beginning disambiguates this law from any other "fake news" laws that Russia has passed per WP:PRECISE, just as the article title 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine distinguishes this particular invasion from the other entries listed in List of invasions and occupations of Ukraine. As far as I can tell, the No. 31-FZ law is an anti-protest law instead of a law about "fake news", so I support a separate article for that law, but I don't think there is anything to split from this article. — Newslinger talk 06:13, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Adding that I see the phrase Russian fake news law much more commonly than the phrase Russia fake news law. When I search "Russia fake news law" in quotes on a search engine, the results are typically for Russia's fake news law, which is not a phrasing that we can use in the article title after 2022. — Newslinger talk 06:28, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Move to Russian fake news laws. This article has significantly changed since the move request was initiated. Now, the article is a broad-concept article that covers four different laws from 2019–2022. I see that the article has already been moved to Russian fake news laws, which seems to be the most concise way to describe these laws. I support the move that has already been implemented, and I also support creating individual articles for each of the four laws, assuming that they are all notable. — Newslinger talk 20:48, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I think the right article of "fake news law" in Russian Wikipedia is "ru:Пакет федеральных законов о недостоверных новостях". Law No. 32-FZ (this article) is just a criminal law amendment.--El caballero de los Leones (talk) 11:05, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This Russian article is devoted to Russian 2019 Fake News Law only, and it doesn't cover 2020 and 2022 laws. K8M8S8 (talk) 12:43, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Comment I just moved the article as its scope was expanded. Super Ψ Dro 18:38, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

@Super Dromaeosaurus:Does it mean the discussion could be closed? K8M8S8 (talk) 14:50, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

That's not on me. An uninvolved user is supposed to close it after some time (a week usually, only 3 days have passed). But I must say the current state of this article is better than when I opened this RM. Super Ψ Dro 14:55, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Proposed splitting article into two separate articles[edit]

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

The result of this discussion was to create separate articles and keep original article. K8M8S8 (talk) 19:18, 4 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Russian Federal Laws of 4 March 2022 №31-FZ and №32-FZ require separate article because these laws have the subject of legal regulation different from the the subject of legal regulation of the Federal Law of 18 March 2019 №31-FZ allowing Roskomnadzor to block the access to any online media in case of revealing a "fake news". And there is one more "fake news" law - the Federal Law of 1 April 2020 №100-FZ prohibiting fake information about COVID-19. We should avoid confusion. K8M8S8 (talk) 21:02, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

So ...

Russian Federal Law of 18 March 2019 №31-FZ - the article "Russian 2019 Fake News Law"
Russian Federal Law of 1 April 2020 №100-FZ - the article "Russian 2020 COVID-19 Fake News Law"
Russian Federal Laws of 4 March 2022 №31-FZ and of 4 March 2022 №32-FZ - the article "Russian 2022 Laws Prohibiting Anti-War Statements and Establishing War Censorship"

Something like this. K8M8S8 (talk) 21:14, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The No. 31-FZ law is titled "On Amendments to the Code of the Russian Federation on Administrative Offenses" and it does not seem to mention "fake news" or "false information". On a first reading, it looks like an anti-protest law. Are you sure this is part of the 2022 Russian fake news law? — Newslinger talk 06:06, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The subject of legal regulation of the Federal Law of 4 March 2022 №32-FZ is wider than just "fake news prohibition". №32-FZ is not just law criminalizing "unreliable information" about Russian Armed Forces and its operations, it also criminalizes discrediting Russian Armed Forces including any calls against the use of Russian Armed Forces, and criminalizes any calls for sanctions on Russia. And the scheme similar to "Dadin's article" (Ildar Dadin is a Russian political activist) is used in this case - the first call against the use of Russian Armed Forces or the call for sanctions on Russia is punishable with a fine according to the Code of Administarive Offences, the second call is punushable with imprisonment according to the Criminal Code. Thus, №31-FZ and №32-FZ work in tandem. K8M8S8 (talk) 08:19, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Russian Wikipedia containes separate articles for different "fake news" laws. For example, this Пакет федеральных законов о недостоверных новостях is devoted to 2019 Fake News Law, and this Федеральный закон № 32-ФЗ 2022 года is devoted to 2022 Laws Establishing War Censorship and Prohibiting Anti-War Statements and Calls for Sanctions. So, after splitting, we should fix interwiki links. K8M8S8 (talk) 13:44, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for explaining. Now that this article has been expanded into a broad-concept article that covers all four of the laws, I think the article should remain as is, but we should also create new articles for each of the four laws. — Newslinger talk 20:45, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I will create a broad-concept article in Russian Wikipedia based on this English article and fix the interwiki-link. But I can't do the same in Ukrainian and Chinese Wikipedias. K8M8S8 (talk) 10:55, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Let me sum up (preliminary): now we have well-done broad-concept article devoted to group of Russian laws. In addition to this article, we may create separate articles "Russian 2019 Fake News Law" interwiki-linked to Пакет федеральных законов о недостоверных новостях and "Russian 2022 Laws Establishing War Censorship and Prohibiting Anti-War Statements and Calls for Sanctions" interwiki-linked to Федеральный закон № 32-ФЗ 2022 года. These future articles shoud containe not only overview and description of effect on society but also sections on application of law (notable cases) and on criticism by international organizations, human rights activists, etc. K8M8S8 (talk) 15:24, 18 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This makes sense to me. Splitting of the three (or four?) sub-articles once there is sufficient material in each case should be uncontroversial. Boud (talk) 01:51, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Newslinger's idea makes sense to me—this could remain a summary-style article that broadly covers all the fake news laws, with each of the laws having their own subarticle that covers each one in more depth. If that's what this split entails, then I'd support that. — Mhawk10 (talk) 18:25, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support split. See also Russian interwiki: 2019 Fake News Law, 2022 War Censorship Laws. Wikisaurus (talk) 21:56, 3 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I've created four new sub-articles. Please check out. But I think we should keep this broad-concept article. K8M8S8 (talk) 22:31, 27 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Belarusian law[edit]

We currently have Similar Belarusian law as a past of the past ("had been") creation in 2021, but "similar to" the 2022 Russian law, since it is in the section on the 2022 Russian law. This makes sense, but I don't know if it's correct or not. It does sound a bit odd, because the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine was still quite speculative in December 2021. Russian speakers should probably check this (and creating an article on the Belarusian law would help...). Boud (talk) 01:48, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Actually, Belarusian law of 14 December 2021 №133-Z relates to the matter of a calls for sanctions against Belarus and Belarusian legal and natural persons, and, unlike Russian law, doesn't relate the matter of war censorship and the dissemination of "unreliable" information. I've added the description into the text of the article. K8M8S8 (talk) 08:40, 19 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]