Talk:Olga Constantinovna of Russia

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Featured articleOlga Constantinovna of Russia is a featured article; it (or a previous version of it) has been identified as one of the best articles produced by the Wikipedia community. Even so, if you can update or improve it, please do so.
Main Page trophyThis article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on February 24, 2014.
Article milestones
DateProcessResult
September 20, 2012Featured article candidatePromoted
On this day...Facts from this article were featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the "On this day..." column on June 18, 2017, and June 18, 2023.

Move proposal[edit]

As per Wiki naming convention for former royal consorts Mowens35 19:35, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The above proposal for move has caused much problems, since the proposer made a typo when writing the new heading. Obviously a result of too busy work and too little carefulness (no surprise when seeing who proposed). After which, several editors have perpetuated the error. 217.140.193.123 1 July 2005 16:48 (UTC)

She should be at Olga Konstantinovna of Russia 217.140.193.123 20:39, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Copyvio ?[edit]

The following allegation was added 16:58, 23 February 2006 by Rvondeh:

The image shown is a VAndyk image which is copyright National Portrait Gallery London, and hence should not be used without permission.

On the image page, however, Craigy144 identifies it as Public Domain. Mdotley 20:32, 22 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Okay[edit]

You don't want any effort done to not make the image choice look like it was scratched up by a team of bobcats all over her face on your day in the mainpage?

I can live with your decision. I shan't bother to finish the restoration, I shan't bother to try and put it back, it's obvious that any such work won't be appreciated. Adam Cuerden (talk) 05:01, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Possibly your PC has a caching issues and you're looking at an old version of the page. Materialscientist (talk) 05:02, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment - I've just forced a purge on my laptop, and the restoration by MSci (thanks, by the way) still seems to have significant scratching around the eyes, moreso than the version by Adam. I am not seeing what could be, in good faith, called vandalism. I only note that Adam's restoration has more whitespace than the version currently in the article. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:07, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I'm really stressed out over some events happening tomorrow that I'm dreading, and am not really handling the stress very well. I did the restoration, focusing on the face, in order to try and get it cleaned up as much as possible in time for this. I can't really focus, so I'm just going to go to bed, and hopefully things'll look better after a nap. They won't, of course; the thing I'm dreading will only be closer then, but...Adam Cuerden (talk) 05:08, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]
You were reverted because you mistakenly re-inserted obvious vandalism. The image was removed at first because at the time it was removed it had no license, no source, and looked no different from the previous image apart from being smaller and more difficult to see. You responded with sarcasm[1], but despite that no other editor made any further reverts regarding the image. Please examine edits more closely in future, and rethink whether calling other editors "ungrateful, ignorant pricks" was fair in this instance. DrKay (talk) 08:33, 24 February 2014 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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Requested move 3 August 2018[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved as requested, no objections raised. Dekimasuよ! 05:24, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Olga Constantinovna of Russia → Olga Konstantinovna of Russia – Per WP:CONSISTENCY and standard transliteration of Russian names. Her father's article and those of her siblings (1, 2, 3, 4, 5) have "Konstantin" and "Konstantinovna" in their main titles. Keivan.fTalk 22:07, 3 August 2018 (UTC)--Relisting. Dekimasuよ! 01:57, 12 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

@Keivan.f: This article is now inconsistent, because all the Greek royals called Constantine use a C, except this one. The article is now a mixture of "Konstantin.." and "Constantine". DrKay (talk) 07:53, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@DrKay: What is your suggestion then? The reason that I submitted this request was to make it consistent with the articles about Russian royalty, including her father and siblings. If you firmly believe that it should rather be consistent with those about her husband's family, then I will submit another request for it to be moved back. By the way, I just realized that you are the person who expanded the article. How do the sources spell her name? Keivan.fTalk 16:43, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I looked at that during the requested move: there are about 170 gbooks hits for "Olga Konstantinovna of Russia" (-wikipedia mirrors) and about 250 for "Olga Constantinovna of Russia". Van der Kiste uses "Grand Duke Constantine", etc.; Christmas uses "Grand Duchess Constantine" for Olga's mother and "Olga Konstantinovna" for Olga; King and Wilson use a K. I estimate between a third and a half of sources use Konstantinovna while more than half use Constantinovna. I didn't think the difference between the C and K forms important at the time, but this morning I went to copy-edit the article after the move and immediately saw that it would mean a shift between Konstantine and Constantine in the article. "Constantine" is very definitely the common form for Greeks.
I think I can just move it back if we're agreed that this single article should follow the Greek form. DrKay (talk) 16:59, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion is misplaced; "Konstantinovna" is a Russian patronymic, from Konstantin, the Russian form of Constantine, not Greek Konstantinos. Following the common rules of Russian transliteration, it should be with a "K". Constantine ✍ 20:12, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Constantinovna is a Russian patronymic transliterated into English, just as Constantine is the English form of Greek Konstantinos. DrKay (talk) 20:21, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
No. "Constantine" is the English variant or form of Greek Konstantinos, with both derived from Latin Constantinus. Konstantinovna is a transliteration of what is a purely Russian name from the Cyrillic alphabet into the Latin alphabet; there is no "into English" in transliteration. Constantine ✍ 21:14, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Constantinovna and Konstantinovna are both transliterations. The forms are interchangeable. DrKay (talk) 21:19, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
They are both transliterations, but one accords with all systems of Romanization of Russian use, and one does not. Constantine ✍ 21:28, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (Cyrillic) and Wikipedia:Romanization of Russian are not endorsed by the community. WP:COMMONNAME is policy: it has precedence over failed proposals, essays, and guidelines. DrKay (talk) 21:35, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Which is why I did not link any of the pages above, but Romanization of Russian, which lists the transliteration systems in actual use by linguists, governments, etc. There's a very convenient table for which letters are transliterated how. Constantine ✍ 21:39, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Check out the 250 books using "Olga Constantinovna", in actual use by sources writing about this woman. DrKay (talk) 21:46, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Sigh, check out my comment below. You can choose based on WP:COMMONNAME or on transliteration, but not both, because transliteration would produce "K", it is as simple as that. I am reacting to the linguistic comments on "Greek names" I saw above, because these are entirely misinformed. Good night. Constantine ✍ 21:53, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I did not say "Greek names" anywhere. You are attacking a straw man. DrKay (talk) 21:59, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Plus the discussion above began with the comment "because all the Greek royals called Constantine use a C, except this one. The article is now a mixture of "Konstantin.." and "Constantine"." My point here is that this is mixing up different things (an English form of the native name, vs. a transliterated form), and hence not a valid argument, and a discussion lacking appropriate basis. If you want to decide based on WP:COMMONNAME, fine by me, just don't decide for reasons of consistency between two entirely different things... Constantine ✍ 21:45, 15 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It seems that I made mistake by using WP:CONSISTENCY as a base for my argument because no one is able to decide whether or why it should be consistent with the articles about her own family or those of her husband's. Thus, based on WP:COMMONNAME, I think we should go with "Constantinova" as that seems to be more frequently used in the sources. As no one participated in this discussion except us, I think DrKay can move the page back to its previous title. Keivan.fTalk 02:17, 16 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Titles and styles[edit]

I've removed this section because it's poorly sourced (primary sources that fail verification or contradict themselves) and dubious. It's a new addition and is attracting inexplicable drive-by edits without edit summaries. DrKay (talk) 07:13, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

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