Talk:Nationality law

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Untitled[edit]

if you were born at sea, what would be your nationality

that depends; you could be born on national waters; if on international waters, I think the nationality of the ship decides; in any case, pregnant women should stay on land, because they easily get sea-sick ;| Karol 20:50, 4 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]
That wouuld depend on nationality law in the country where the ship is registered (Israel and Ireland might do, I've heard). Also, it might depend on the nationalities of the parents, depending on nationality law in the country or countries where they hold nationality - see Jus sanguinis -- Boracay Bill 05:11, 24 November 2006 (UTC)[reply]

---

This should not be redirected from immigration law -- immigration and nationality law are very related but two different things -- one dealing with one's allegiance, the other with one's presence.

Indians in Hong Kong[edit]

I have removed this note:

"Indo-Pakistani dwellers in Hong Kong are threatened with the prospect of their descendents being stateless because British nationality has limited transmission to them. To escape this fate, some have even applied for Chinese nationality with the Immigration Department and been granted same nationality. In fact, a child born in Hong Kong to parents both of whom are stateless will automatically have Chinese nationality. (See Chinese nationality law)"

Under British law:

  • the child of a British National (Overseas) or British Overseas citizen connected with Hong Kong who would otherwise be stateless is automatically a British Overseas citizen
  • such a child could then be registered as a British citizen under s4B of the British Nationality Act 1981

See British nationality law and British nationality law and Hong Kong

Edits by 132.238.146.53[edit]

Yow! Just what *is* that stuff? --Ihope127 16:28, 9 February 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Overlinked with dead links?[edit]

I count 13 internal links to nonexistent articles out of the 58 links presently listed in the in the specific countries section. Is there any objection to my removing the dead links in this section? -- Boracay Bill 23:22, 7 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Citizenship and nationality guideline[edit]

Hello everyone. I would like to draw your attention to a proposed guideline on the use of the terms 'citizenship' and 'nationality' in the {{Infobox Person}} template. At present, the term 'nationality' is used to indicate both nationality and citizenship, and the purpose of the proposal is to put an end to that practice. The 'nutshell' description of the guideline is as follows:

"The terms 'citizenship' and 'nationality' are sometimes used interchangeably, but differ in important ways. In most circumstances, citizenship is easier to determine than nationality, and should be given priority. Nationality should be listed only in addition to citizenship, and only in cases where it is relevant to the article."

Your comments on the proposal's talk page would be appreciated! – SJL 19:37, 12 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]


This article and Citizenship need MAJOR overhauls[edit]

Both articles are well below a reasonable standard of accuracy. The article Nationality deals with Citizenship, i.e., what country you can get a passport from. Nationality is not a legal term but refers to cultural roots - one can have the nationality of country A while being a citizen of country B. Moreover, the text in this article seems very uninformed and jives with the current international situation. E.g., children of US citizens born abroad also get US citizenship (there is an international treaty on citizenship), and there is no difference between father and mother. MAJOR OVERHAUL NEEDED. Lindorm (talk) 13:39, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This strikes of original research to me. The words nationality and citizenship are normally interchangeable. In any event how do you explain this? — Blue-Haired Lawyer t 16:49, 27 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Er. See United States nationality law#Nationals who are not citizens, American Samoa#Nationality, 8 U.S.C. § 1408, etc.Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 10:26, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I did say normally interchangeable. Slight problem with this source is that is says the precise opposite to what you're saying. By you're definitions American Samoans would be citizens (passport) but not nationals (ethnicity). In fact they are said to be nationals and not citizens. You also say that nationality is not a legal term, when your source demonstrates that it is. — Blue-Haired Lawyer t 13:18, 28 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I'm not really sure what you mean when you refer to "my" definitions. Perhaps you've mistaken me for someone else. "Normally interchangeable" depends on what context might be considered "normal". I'm not a lawyer, but 8 USC 1408 seems to me to say pretty plainly, "Unless otherwise provided in section 1401 of this title, the following shall be nationals, but not citizens, of the United States at birth: [...]", and interchangeability appears not to be "normal" in that context -- and that appears to me to be the context in which the difference between nationality and citizenship would matter, at least under U.S. law. Or do I misapprehend something? Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 04:31, 29 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
No. I rather carelessly assumed you were Lindorm. My apologies. I meant his (or her) definitions. By normal I mean most countries. — Blue-Haired Lawyer t
No problem; I should have been clearer. The details of and differences between nationality and citizenship are more complex in some countries than in others. That used to be a lot clearer in this article prior to this edit back in April. Also, the fact that Citizenship law redirects to this article can be a source of confusion. As I understand it, Nationality and Citizenship are equivalent in some countries (e.g., the Republic of the Philippines, where I live) and not equivalent in other countries (e.g., the United States, Britain, Australia, Mexico, ...); The country or countries which will issue one a passport is/are a function of one's nationality (e.g., noncitizen U.S nationals who are citizens of American Samoa are able to obtain U.S. passports; my U.S. passport says, "The Secretary of State of the United States of America requests all whom it may concern to permit the citizen/national [my itals] of the United States named herein to pass without delay or hinderance and in case of need to give all lawful aid and protection."); one can have the nationality and perhaps the citizenship of country A while being a national and perhaps a citizen of country B (and C, and D, etc.). Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 05:59, 30 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]
That some countries draw a distinction in their laws between citizens and nationals doesn't really mean that we can't call the general topic "Nationality law". In the UK there are several different kinds of citizenship including "British citizens", "British subjects" and "British National (Overseas)" but the Acts of Parliament are invariably called the "British Nationality Acts".
The main problem in distinguishing nationals and citizens in a legal context is that you'll find different countries adopt quite different definitions.
I have to say that I agree with the reason behind the edit you complained of, but I can see that there may be room for a List of countries by nationality law. — Blue-Haired Lawyer t 00:29, 31 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Change the name of the country list?[edit]

Right now it is "Provisions to simplify immigration of favored ethnic groups" which is a mouthful... Something other like "List of countries with ethnocentric immigration laws" would work better? ImTheIP (talk) 14:53, 11 August 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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External links modified (February 2018)[edit]

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United States[edit]

Here, I've added a section on the United States. This new section probably needs further work and some expansion. I stated in my edit summary adding the section that, as is, it "conflicts with the WP:LEAD of this article, which implies that Nationality is the same thing as National Citizenship." This has been touched on in the #This article and Citizenship need MAJOR overhauls section above. Wtmitchell (talk) (earlier Boracay Bill) 10:11, 20 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

"Defines the rights and obligations of citizenship"?[edit]

Is there any source that says that 'nationality law' includes anything about the rights and obligations of citizens? This seems to fall entirely within other categories of law, and nationality law really only comprises how citizenship/nationality is acquired and lost. It seems the nebulous definition has contributed to things like voting rights and visa freedom on many countries' nationality law pages, even though these sections are always redundant with other articles and are not part of this field of law. Knr5 (talk) 00:38, 8 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Jus officii ?[edit]

What about the rule where nationality is awarded by appointment due to a job (jus officii) like in the Vatican City? I think this should be added. 50.74.231.163 (talk) 12:47, 28 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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