Talk:National Film Award for Best Actor

Untitled

Wouldn't it be better to link to the industry (Bollywood, Kollywood, Tollywood, etc) instead of the language for each movie? The language could, if needed, be included along with the movie name.

Not really. What is there is fine. GDibyendu (talk) 16:20, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Sobhan Babu

This article is specifically about the list of "National Film Award for Best Actor". What Sobhan Babu received was the "award for the best classical film hero", see here. In 1970, there was only one actor who received the award for "Best actor", he was Utpal Dutt. Hence I revert your edits. Salih (talk) 18:14, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

Youngest Winner

The article states Dhanush (27) as the youngest winner. Check this which states Mithun Chakraborty was born in 1950. He won a national award in 1977 (film was released in 1976). If so he must be the youngest winner. --Commander _{(Ping Me)} 07:13, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

DYK nomination

National Film Award for Best Actor

• Promoted by Crisco 1492 (talk): Template talk:Did you know/National Film Award for Best Actor — Bill william compton^Talk 16:28, 4 August 2011 (UTC)

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Removal of an image

@Vensatry: I repeat my rationale here. The three actors viz., Kamal Haasan, Mammootty, and Amitabh Bachchan are the only actors who won the award thrice, that's what is significant as far as the award is concerned. Leaving out Mammootty's image by invoking arbitrary criteria like most successful actor after 2000, won on debut film, etc. are not in good spirit. No harm done in having another image. If you want to remove the image, cite some policy based reasons. Thanks. Salih (talk) 17:19, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

I never said including an extra image to be a bad idea. Besides, the fact is very well mentioned in the lead, and I see no point in including an extra image to justify this fact one again pitorially in a list that is already filled with enough images. The Kamal and Amitabh images expresses something other than the three-time win. FYI, Amitabh winning the award twice post 2000 was a DYK fact, and doesn't seem like an arbitrary criteria. When you want to make meaningful changes, it's wise to start the discussion first, gain consensus and proceed, not the other way around as you did now. —Vensatry _(Ping) 17:30, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

Actors winning awards for their debut films are definitely noteworthy; not for someone who wins their first award after acting in 150+ films over a span of 10 years. You're welcome to add the image of Mammooty, but with a reasonable caption (reliably-sourced) other than the three-time win. —Vensatry _(Ping) 17:37, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't understand why you are so adamant in removing the image. The article is not cluttered with the images right now. Winning three times is more noteworthy than anything else. So, please wait for a third opinion before you revert. Thanks. Salih (talk) 17:41, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

I think we both are violated, may be inadvertently, the 3RR rule. We should be careful:) Salih (talk) 17:45, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

I don't think I was adamant. Someone might want to add two-time winners' image too. Given the way, the images are clearly going to dominate the page. Also you shouldn't forget this one; at least two users are disagreeing with you. Perhaps, it's you who should wait till the discussion gets over. —Vensatry _(Ping) 17:55, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

If somebody wants to add two-time winners (there are many I suppose), we can tell them that three-time winners are more noteworthy than two-time winners and adding all the two-time winners might clutter the article with images. So far nobody has tried such a thing, so you don't have to worry. Only you are disagreeing with me, Bill william compton did not revert me because he understood my rationale.Salih (talk) 18:09, 18 January 2014 (UTC)

I know these lists are prone to POV pushing and soon we shall expect more images of other actors too. Going by your intention to insert the image, I can very well say that you're a fan of the actor and a POV pusher too. How do you say that Bill william compton has understood your rationale; in one of his reverts he says "Haasan is here because he is the first actor to win the award thrice and Bachchan is the most one successful since 2000; this is a featured list, so discuss changes before making them". You should stop making reverts and discuss first. —Vensatry _(Ping) 05:52, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

What to do if there are users like you who are so adamant to insert more images? —Vensatry _(Ping) 06:00, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

To know whether I am pushing POV in inserting the actor's image, check the history of the article on Mammootty too see my contribution. At present you are the only person opposing to include the image. Please refrain from making wild and baseless allegations. Bill william compton did not revert my final edit on 14 September 2013 after he understood the logic in my edit summary and the image was very well there before you came on 4 November 2013 and deleted with a vague edit summary. You say that I am not ready to discuss. Is this not a discussion? Salih (talk) 06:57, 19 January 2014 (UTC)

Salih, you say that I sound like claiming ownership of the article. I clearly know that nobody owns any of the stuff over here, but I've worked a lot and copy-edited each and every single line of this list. According to you last November was the best version, but if you check the talk page, the list passed FLC on 19 September 2013, which must be the best version without any doubt; after the announcement of 60th National Film Awards. At the time, there were only three images—Kamal, Mithun and Amitabh. I think you were the one who first added Mammooty's image, which was reverted by Compton and me. You say that Compton has agreed to your edit. Can you show where he has explicitly stated that? seems he is not highly active now. You should first discuss, gain consensus and only then add the image. It's really unfair to see an experienced editor behaving like this. —Vensatry _(Ping) 02:10, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

I feel it is ok to have Mammooty's image. The article is not image-heavy as of now. If someone wants to ad the image of any other actor with two awards, we can say that we have only images of actors winning the award three times, and one winner at debut.--Dwaipayan (talk) 02:17, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

As I said earlier, I'm personally not against adding any image. If you look at the caption of Kamal and Amitabh, it's conveys something that is very different from the actors winning the award three times. Likewise, something for Mammooty would be more appreciated, rather than the usual fact which everybody in the film world knows. I've suggested this idea once before to Salih. Instead of doing that he keeps adding the same caption just for the sake of having the image. —Vensatry _(Ping) 02:28, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

Vensatry, it's not for the sake of adding the image, he has won it three times. That is the maximum number and is most significant achievement. First time winner, won on debut film, after 2000, etc. are minor (I would say trivial) compare to the maximum number of wins. If you find image caption troubling, modify it suitably. That's it. Also, the article is not image heavy as pointed out by Dwaipayanc. Salih (talk) 04:44, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

That's okay! isn't the same fact well-mentioned in the lead? Although there is no strict guideline on image caption, if you look at some of the FLC pages, I've come across many reviewers commenting about what image to include, what caption to use? etc., I completely lost my interest and don't think I'll touch this anymore. Anyone can do whatever they want. —Vensatry _(Ping) 06:22, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

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Akshay Kumar awarded for

The official declaration is, he was awarded for Rustom. Its as simple as that. My opinion or anyone's opinion does not matter here. Further, some question,

• Is it official or ever any press release from govt that awarded for two films- answer "NO"
• Is the interview a official interview? "NO"
• Does one member of jury means whole jury- answer "NO"
• Does one member opinion need to be matched with all of the jury? "NO", thats why there is jury in the first place.
• Did anyother member of jury mention such? "NO"

Though the above mentioned point does not matter at all...as OFFICIAL DECLARATION is awarded for "Rustom". Its as simple as that. What fans feel, what someone thinks, what is the opinion of one jury member or technical mistake does not count. Whatever is official is to be put (period). Dey subrata (talk) 17:29, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Dey subrata: Not just any member of the jury, he was the Jury Chairman, the HEAD of the jury. He represents the jury and it was not an "opinion". He clearly said the official declaration did not mention Airlift due to technical reason, so it's an erroneous source and pointing towards it is useless. The Quint directly quotes his words confirming the award, and further he confirms it again in another long interview in Hindustan Times also. Did any jury member challenged the Chairman's statement ? NO.--Let There Be Sunshine 18:10, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

@Let There Be Sunshine: The question is, Is it officially declared?? NO. If any official publication or official press release you can show, you can put it there. I will not question it. Its an opinion when it not officially declared, as simple as that. There is difference from a general interview (personal interview) and a official interview. You produce any govt doc, I will be fine with that, otherwise don't put it. And even if you want to put this info, you can put it in the footnote, not in the list. Dey subrata (talk) 18:21, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Dey subrata: You have the wrong idea about what an opinion is. "He should have won the award for Airlift" is an opinion, "he won the award for airlift" is NOT an opinion, it's a statement about a fact. And it's coming from the Chairman. Jury Chairman is a WP:PRIMARY source and his words are official (authoritative). You are talking as it was challenged, which is not. May be a footnote can be added saying, "according to then Jury Chairman Priyadarshan, Kumar won the award for both Rustom and Airlift, but only Rustom was mentioned in declaration list due to technical reasons". Attributing it to him.--Let There Be Sunshine 19:49, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Let There Be Sunshine No, I don't have any wrong idea. But I think you are failed to understand between a opinion and calling something fact when it not written anywhere or mentionaed anywhere formally and officially. If I am President of country, my statement becoem a fact when I give the statement as a President, or from a Presidential platform, not in personal capacity. You failed to understand that the statement that he made was not as a Chairman or neither from any official platform, hence such statement will not be considered as fact or any official statement, any any official declaration has a document where here does not have any. Thus such statement is nothing but a opinion. which has no proof to back it. No one opposed it as he does not use any official platform to amke such statement, he just said in an interview (as director Priyadarshan not as National Film Award jury head), there is difference between both. I can give two statement one as President another as a common man. I hope you understand now whats call a opinion and whats called a fact. And you can keep in footnote about it but mention correctly the scenerio (as said in an interview). Dey subrata (talk) 20:28, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Dey subrata: Not going to take anymore English lessons on what an opinion is since you are failing to understand. I don't think your mind is willing for that. However, with that example you were actually talking about difference between official and non-official declaration (not opinion). Opinion is opinion and fact is fact whether it is said officially or not. Evidence ? He was the Chairman of the Jury and his statement is "authoritative" (not challenged too), whether YOU accept it or not.--Let There Be Sunshine 08:32, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Let There Be Sunshine I don't ask you to take english lesson from me. But by saying I will not learn something makes you blind at the very moment. An opinion is an opinion, a fact is a fact. Are you trying to say when PM of a country goes to rally and speak his mind producing any data to the people becomes a fact!!! May God save you. Open your mind lil' bit more, a person's word cannot be authoratative, if its not formally and officially produced. A fact is always backed by evidence or proof, if its not there than its not a fact as simple as that. I m teaching you english lesson, but common sense for sure. Dey subrata (talk) 08:41, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Dey subrata: I said I have backed out from teaching YOU. You are not ready to think on it. It's becoming clearer and clearer. You are again talking about official and non-official talks. Not going to repeat myself, you need to read this discussion from the top again. Relax and take some time away first. The one who made the statement here is in the capacity to make that and it was not an opinion. How is it hard to understand.--Let There Be Sunshine 08:57, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

Let There Be Sunshine Why are asking me to understand anything, I am clear on all, but you are failing to differentiate between fact an opinion. No he does have any capacity to say anything he likes. He is head of jury does not give him authority to say anything which is not back by any official declaration. Are you out of you mind, I think you are very young to understand these terminology. Anyway let me tell you something, not everything person say holding a particular position need not to be correct, you must know this and if not known, know it by now. Secondly, its opinion as he is speaking his judgement on why Akshay was awarded and a judgement is always a opinion. Secondly, he was speaking as a jury head, he was speaking in his personal capacity, does he made the statement from an official platform, no. So simple to understand. Thirdly, its very evident he was speaking his mind as he was somehow cricising a actor and praising another, a jury head is not supposed to be biased not aleast holding a position. So evidently, its was his persnal opinion, not a fact. And its enough, you argued a lot, its totally unnecessary, try to learn. don't close your eyes n ear n thinking. Take care Dey subrata (talk) 09:12, 9 March 2019 (UTC)

This was also discussed at 64th National Film Awards. If Airlift is not mentioned in the official press release, Presentation Ceremony, and Press Conference to announce of 64th National Film Awards, it does not matter who says what at any place. - Vivvt (Talk) 07:16, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

How about we list only Rustom in the table and mention Airlift in a footnote? Kailash29792 (talk) 18:40, 10 March 2019 (UTC)

3O Response: Nobody has contested the sources mentioned in LTBS's first statement above, so I assume there is no problem with their reliability. In them, Priyadarshan is noted as the jury head / chair, and he states "For technical reasons, we could only mention one film in the list of winners." and "we thought it was only fair to honour him for both". It seems to me that the "we" is referring to the jury. Since Airlift was not in the official list of winners I don't feel that it should be in the table, but mentioning Airlift in a footnote seems appropriate, properly cited with in-text attribution. In interviews with X, then-jury chairman Y stated that (brief summary of statement). This is a non-binding third opinion. – Reidgreg (talk) 00:43, 11 March 2019 (UTC)

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