Talk:NFL 100th Anniversary All-Time Team

Bill Belichick

I think Bill Belichick won Super Bowl XXI and XXV as the defensive coordinator for the New York Giants, should that be added to it?

GameEnd (talk) 14:42, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

@GameEnd: The "coaches" were selected for their accomplishments as head coaches, their tenures as assistant coaches were ignored. Eagles 24/7 (C) 14:52, 9 December 2019 (UTC)

Records

Should individual records be added to Accolades? For example, Emmitt Smith holds the NFL record for career rushing yards (18,355), rushing touchdowns (185), and rushing attempts (4,409). --Ruschear90 (talk) 13:37, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

I’d be fine w/adding individual records. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 21:37, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

All of these achievements and records would need individual references to support them, and when their records get broken they'd need to be updated. Therefore in general I am opposed to this. Eagles 24/7 (C) 21:52, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Records being broken could be a problem. What we could do is list the # of times & seasons where a player led a statistical category. As an example, someone's already done that by listing the # of times & seasons that Shane Lechler led the NFL in punting yards. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 09:20, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

I think that would bloat the list too much (and again, we need references for every individual accomplishment). Readers already know these players were the best of the best, and having an endless list of accomplishments doesn't seem particularly useful. Eagles 24/7 (C) 16:21, 14 December 2019 (UTC)

Linebackers

Since 6 middle linebackers & 6 outside linebackers were chosen, should we separate the middle linebackers & the outside linebackers? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 02:17, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

Unless they were specified differently in the selection announcements, they should be listed together. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:24, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

I don’t think the reference announcing the finalists said which players were OLB finalists & which players were MLB/ILB finalists, but the reference for the selection announcement specified which players on the All-Time Team were chosen as OLB’s & which players on the All-Time Team were chosen as MLB’s/ILB’s. The reference for the selection announcement was used to group the players together in the table for the All-Time Team. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 00:46, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

AFL & AAFC accolades

Should we include AFL & AAFC accolades? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 19:54, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Considering Lance Alworth played eight of his eleven seasons in the AFL, and the official roster lists years when players/coaches were in these other leagues, I believe they should be included. Eagles 24/7 (C) 20:23, 23 December 2019 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 00:32, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

The AFL info are according the merger agreement between the AFL and NFL supposed to have equal weight with all previous NFL statistics and honors. Therefore they need to be included. I would say the same thing thing should apply to the AAFC, but there was no similar agreement when the Browns, 49ers and Colts joined the NFL. So at the very least the AFL stuff needs to be included. dreiss2 (talk) 02:50, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

I’m fine w/including AFL accolades, but I’d also include AAFC accolades if we include AFL accolades. Blaylockjam10 (talk) 05:17, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

@Dreiss2: By "according the merger agreement ... to have equal weight" for honors do you mean that the AFL honors must be published alongside NFL honors? Or do you mean the AFL honors are named the same? For example. the WR announcements have Alworth with "7 straight Pro Bowls, 1963-1969 seasons... 6 1st-team All-Pro selections", while his Wikipedia bio refers to "AFL All-Star" and "All-AFL". Are you saying the NFL normalizes the names of the AFL honors to NFL ones?—Bagumba (talk) 05:22, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

@Bagumba: If the All-America Football Conference article is correct, the NFL recognizes AFL stats, but it doesn’t recognize AAFC stats (though the Hall of Fame does). I think Dreiss is referring to the “The AAFC and the NFL record book” section of the AAFC article, which says:

“One notable difference between the All-America Football Conference and the American Football League (AFL), which merged with the NFL two decades later, is that the records and statistics of AAFC players and teams are not included in the NFL record book, while those of their AFL counterparts are. For example, Joe Namath's pre-1970 statistics with the AFL New York Jets are considered official NFL statistics, while Y. A. Tittle's pre-1950 statistics with the AAFC Baltimore Colts are not.

According to the NFL, this is because official scoresheets of AAFC games were not made available to the NFL after the merger. Without these, the NFL could not verify the authenticity of any AAFC statistics or records and so chose to ignore them. However, in the case of the NFL-AFL merger completed in 1970, the AFL gave all of its official scoresheets to the NFL making it possible for the NFL to accept the AFL's statistics and records.

Another explanation is that unlike the NFL-AFL agreement, the NFL-AAFC agreement was not a merger between equals. Only three of the seven AAFC teams were admitted to the NFL. There was no interleague playoff in December 1949. "American" swiftly disappeared from the enlarged league's name. The AFL, on the other hand, was able to force the NFL to admit all of its teams and to play an interleague championship game on a neutral field.

The Pro Football Hall of Fame does recognize AAFC statistics.”

Blaylockjam10 (talk) 06:13, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

I verified that the 1977 NFL Encyclopedia says "Only one other league ever succeeded in merging fully with the NFL and having its statistical feats entered for consideration along with those of the NFL as all-time professional records. That was the 1960–69 American Football League ... but AAFC achievement were not accepted for the all-time records." In the All-Pro section, it lists the AFL and NFL teams without calling one it "All-AFL". Similiarly in the "Pro Bowl" section, it has the AFL games without calling them AFL All-Star Games. As for the explanation of why AAFC was not included, it's not in the encyclopedia, so I have tagged it for a citation needed.—Bagumba (talk) 07:52, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

@Bagumba: I did find a reference for this part of the section:

According to the NFL, this is because official scoresheets of AAFC games were not made available to the NFL after the merger. Without these, the NFL could not verify the authenticity of any AAFC statistics or records and so it chose to ignore them.

It also referenced the AFL in a way that could be relevant to that paragraph, but I wasn’t sure if that part was clear enough to use it as a reference.

Blaylockjam10 (talk) 08:38, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Great. It alwasys renews my faith in AGF when chunks of unsourced text can be cited.—Bagumba (talk) 09:37, 24 December 2019 (UTC)

Order of the accolades

Personally, I think the current order of the accolades is fine, but @Bmorrow151: seems to disagree. What do others (@Eagles247:, @Bagumba:, @Dreiss2:) think?

Also, it seems like we’re leaning towards including AFL & AAFC accolades. Should those go after NFL accolades or should there be some other order for them? Blaylockjam10 (talk) 10:28, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

I have no problem with however they get ordered really. But I think grouping equivalents would be the best way to handle it. NFL Pro-Bowl, AFL Pro-Bowl. Super bowl, NFL Championship, AFL Championship. Like that. But if there are other ways to group it that make logical sense that others like better, I'm fine with that as well. dreiss2 (talk) 13:56, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

I agree with Dreiss2 about the equivalency of awards being grouped together. Eagles 24/7 (C) 15:51, 28 December 2019 (UTC)

Might consider making All-Pro, Pro Bowls, league championships into sortable columns. Otherwise, the accolades are kinda like a wall of text that's hard to distinguish one member from the other.—Bagumba (talk) 09:52, 29 December 2019 (UTC)

Okay, per these discussions I added in the AFL accolades for the offensive players: Lance Alworth, Gene Upshaw and Jim Otto. Still need to do it for the defensive players: Buck Buchanan, Bobby Bell, Willie Lanier, and 'Old Man' Willie Brown. As well as kicker Jan Stenerud. None of the Head coaches on the list ever coached in the AFL. dreiss2 (talk) 07:09, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

All the players with AFL accolades have them listed on the page now. I only included the AFL Championships from those years when there was no Superbowl. There are no NFL Championships listed from the 4-years that also had a Superbowl, so it seemed only fair to leave off those AFL equivalents. The Superbowl being considered superior too both the Championship games during that 4-year period. dreiss2 (talk) 19:11, 3 January 2020 (UTC)

Should we include accolades after 2019?

Tom Brady and Rob Gronkowski's Super Bowl LV victory is included in their accolades. JumperZ69666420 (talk) 02:18, 21 May 2021 (UTC)