Talk:Muhacir

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Help needed[edit]

Hi, I am trying to link this page to the following Wikipedia pages: Population exchange between Greece and Turkey and the Exodus of Turks from Bulgaria (1950–1951). This is because people often confuse Bulgarian refugees and mubadils with muhacirs. I want to have an option for people to also view these pages as a "did you mean this?". Unfortunately, I couldn't manage to do it. Can someone help me? Batili anlamda ilk editor (talk) 12:41, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Copyright problem removed[edit]

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External links modified (January 2018)[edit]

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Short description[edit]

Changed the short description from Ottoman Muslims who emigrated to Anatolia to Muslim migrants in the Ottoman Empire. Not all muhacirs settled in Anatolia, as some settled in other places such as the Arab provinces. Batili anlamda ilk editor (talk) 12:24, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Lead sentence[edit]

Changed lead sentence as the previous lead was an incorrect description of the term. Batili anlamda ilk editor (talk) 16:39, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The lead sentence has been changed and now includes misleading information. The Turkish state does not ask for citizens' ethnic backgrounds in censuses, which makes it impossible to precisely know the number of people with muhacir ancestry. Unfortunately, this page has zero credibility right now. Batili anlamda ilk editor (talk) 16:36, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In addition, muhacirs are currently described as "the estimated 10 million Ottoman Muslim citizens, and their descendants born after the onset of the dissolution of the Ottoman Empire". This is not only incorrect for the reason I gave above but also simply not true because muhacirs are Muslim migrants who emigrated to the Ottoman Empire from different parts of the world during the nineteenth and twentieth centuries due to the ethnic cleansing, war, and loss of land in their respective homeland. Whoever has made the current description is actually referring to mubadil or just refugees, not muhacir. The description of Muhacirs comes from Muhacir Komisyonu Maruzatı in the 19th century. This Wikipedia page is now just incorrect for so many reasons. Batili anlamda ilk editor (talk) 16:41, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Turkish state is not the only source for population stats. In this case the Turkish state is actually an unreliable source, see comments below.  // Timothy :: talk  17:27, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, there is still no way to determine many people with muhacir background due to asimilation politics. This is particularly true for Circassians. Many are unaware that they even have Circassian origin, making it impossible to determine the number. Batili anlamda ilk editor (talk) 18:14, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The issue is sourcing and neutrality. The above can be discussed if you:
  • Show there are independent reliable sources stating the above. (WP:V, WP:CITE)
  • If there are independent reliable sources that offer views different from the above, these need to be included (WP:NPOV).
  • Sources and viewpoints need to be proportionally included based on the weight of their sources (WP:WEIGHT).
  • If you find that a source does not support the content it should be marked with a "failed verification" tag, (Template:Failed verification)
  • If you believe a source is unreliable, it can be marked with a "better source needed" (Template:Better source needed)
  • If a piece of content is not sourced and you cannot find a source and you believe it is incorrect, it can be removed per WP:V.
  • If you wish to remove a source (or sourced content) it should be discussed with your reasons prior to removing the source; if there is a WP:CONSENSUS it can be removed.
  • If you are working on the article lead, you should follow Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lead section.
  • Edits should have clear and accurate edit summaries. If more space is needed than practical in an edit summary, the information can be posted to the talk page and the edit summary can simply be "see talk page discussion".
There is abundant room for improving the article and its sources, but this needs to be accomplished within the guidelines and policies I have mentioned above.  // Timothy :: talk  20:01, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction subsection[edit]

I reoganized the introduction and deleted paragraphs that were talking about mubadil, migrants, or refugees in Turkey, as these are different to muhacir. Now, the section does not include an ahistorical description of the term. Batili anlamda ilk editor (talk) 20:08, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

In the introduction, I have deleted unsubstantiated and potentially nationalist sentiments that were not cited and included incorrect data. Also, there is no way to prove ancestry as Turkish government does not ask for ethnic background in its consensus, so please do not add that sentence again. Batili anlamda ilk editor (talk) 12:23, 3 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The Refugee Commission (Muhacirin Komisyonu)[edit]

Added the sub-section refugee commission to reflect how the Ottoman state responded to the large wave of muhajirs coming to the Empire. Batili anlamda ilk editor (talk) 10:26, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Syria[edit]

I removed the subhead Syria because muhacir is a term specific to the Muslim refugees in the Ottoman Empire. People who fled Syria during the Civil War are not muhacirs but refugees, according to the UN Refugee Convention of 1951. Applying the historical term muhacir to 21st century Syrian refugees in modern Turkey is ahistorical. Batili anlamda ilk editor (talk) 16:46, 24 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Caucasus[edit]

Re-wrote the section as it lacked citation from reliable sources and included data from contested datasets. Currently the section includes an introduction to what is meant by people from the Caucasus, and the reasons behind their migration to the Ottoman Empire. Batili anlamda ilk editor (talk) 14:02, 25 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Footnote 3, can't see in source.[edit]

At the end of the first paragraph, "Today, between a quarter and a third of Turkey's population of 85 million have ancestry from these Muhacirs.^3"

However, looking at the source ( https://books.google.com/books?id=HT1cJMHrv9EC&newbks=0&pg=PA17&lpg=PP1&focus=viewport&dq=978-0857453273 ) It doesn't say this at all, unless it's in the footnotes which I can't see. Can anyone else confirm this? Captchacatcher (talk) 15:18, 20 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's in page 17, you can see the pdf in the link [1] Bogazicili (talk) 10:41, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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