Talk:Lockdown (2008)/Archive 1
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| Archive 1 |
Sting
We all know that Sting will be part of Team Cage but Wiki guidelines state we cannot add it until its officially announced on iMPACT or the TNA website. Looks like we'll have to wait until next week to before we can add it. Jay794 (talk) 10:12, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
- "We all know"? You are right in that no one can add him because he has not been announced as part of Cage's team. TJ Spyke 20:25, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Well yeah, anyone who watched iMPACT knows that the music played at the end was Stings cos they also showed his video. Its fact that Sting will be part of Team Cage at Lockdown. Jay794 (talk) 12:18, 23 March 2008 (UTC)
TJ's right. TNA has been known to swerve people. Hence Vince Russo is the booker. Meepboy (talk) 18:10, 23 March 2008 (UTC) 23 March 2008 (UTC)
Supppse it wud be cool to see Sting as a heel but Team Tomko is full Jay794 (talk) 15:45, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
Ahh but as I said before TNA's been known to swerve people... you must think outside the box when your talking about TNA. Meepboy (talk) 17:38, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
They never said Scott Hall would be Stings partner DW and Tenay speculated it but Neither Hall nor Sting said it. Sting will be on team cage but it isnt announced so it doesnt go in.LifeStroke420 (talk) 17:44, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
- Actually, in the previews for the next weeks iMPACT they did say that Hall would be Sting's partner. Anyways, it's just speculation that Sting will be on Team Cage. TJ Spyke 18:26, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
No, NASH said Hall would be Sting's partner, but for anyone who knows the business, we knew it would be Booker.
The Lethal Lockdown match is now a 5-on-5, with James Storm added to Tomko's team and Matt Morgan added to Christian's team. Can't we change it? It's been announced to the live audience at Impact! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.158.184.202 (talk) 13:01, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
How can it have been announced when iMPACT doesn't air till Thursday. Jay794 (talk) 18:24, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
- Impact is taped usually 4 to 12 days before it airs... 81.64.118.63 (talk) 14:04, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
I have even heard of times that they would tape iMPACT! more than 30 days before it aired. Vermon CaTaffy 8 (talk) 04:35, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
Feedback
- Lead
Remove the abbreviation "PPV" from the sentence. It isn't used again in the section, so it's just unneccessary.Change "As a tradition" to "As per tradition" - it sounds better.Change "Sharmell versus Robert" to "Sharmell against Robert". Avoid the redundancy of the word "versus"."in a mixed tag team match. Which Booker T and Sharmell..." Reword. Perhaps, replace the full stop with a comma."exception of Samoa Joe and Kurt Angle." - only last names should be used, once the names have been mentioned once in a section. Should read "exception of Joe and Angle."The sentence beginning "The Team Cage and Team Tomko rivalry" is way too long. Add a full stop after "forming a tag team" and then the sentence should start "They competed in the".Change "Kayfabe" to say "storyline", i.e. [[Kayfabe|storyline]], and remove the brackets.Change "would be" to "were".Change "would clam" to "claimed".
- Background
Change "Joe would have his own announcement" to "Joe made his own announcement". Avoid using the word "would" - change it to past tense. It sounds better.- Done.
Change "where he would state" to "where he stated".- Done.
Change "forever, though it would later be changed" to "forever; although, it was later changed".- Done.
Change "The reason being, he was (Kayfabe) training" to "In the [[Kayfabe|storyline]], he was training".- Done.
"Angle's defence" - say "Angle's successful defence" just to clarify it.- Done.
Change "During the time of Joe's training, Angle would also train. He faced new opponents each week on Impact! in MMA fights" to "While Joe did not appear on televison due to his training, Angle's training included him facing new opponents each week on Impact! in MMA fights".- Done.
Wikilink Tomko.- I forgot that. I once had that Angle fought him and Styles in a MMA fight. I must have forgotten to link his name.- Done.
"Kurt Angle" to "Angle"- Done.
Change "Cage decided on" to "Cage picked"- avoid redundancy of "decided on".- Done.
"Kevin Nash befriended" to "Nash befriended"- Done.
"a promo came on the TitanTron, showing the return of Sting" - add wikilink for Promo - reword to "a promo was shown on the TitanTron, advertising the return of Sting"- Done.
"proceed" to "proceeded"- past tense.- Done.
Change "until Team 3D brought tables into the ring. Before they could use their signature tables, the lights went off and came back on with Sting appearing in the ring with a baseball bat." to "until Team 3D brought their signature tables into the ring. Before they could use the tables, however, the lights went off. When they came back on, Sting had appeared in the ring, wielding a baseball bat."- Done.
Change "another match was made for the night" to "a match was made for later that night"- Done.
Remove "in a tag team match" - unneccessary and just elongates the sentence.- Done.
Change "Team Cage was celebrating its victory when James" to " team Cage celebrated its victory, until James"- With or without Storm?- Done.
Change "hitting him in" to "and hit him in"- Done.
Explain why Matt Morgan had the authority to allow Team Tomko to add another member. Is he like the Management Director or something?- Not sure how to go about it. Morgan was Cornette's stand in for the night. He is his bodyguard. He has a little authority when Cornette isn't there. So I'm not sure what to call him.
- Well say that Morgan was Cornette's stand in for the night. The way it is now, it sounds like some random wrestler suddenly decided that the teams sghould increase. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 19:56, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- Done.
Change "coming to TNA and, in turn, pushing him further down" to "coming to TNA, which pushed him further down"- Done.
"Sharmell returned" - where had she been? Did Roode hitting her result in her taking time off? If so, say that.- Done, kind of.
"Security" doesn't need to be capitalised.- Done.
Change second mention of "Payton Banks" to Banks- Done.
Change "O.D.B were feuding with Awesome" to "O.D.B were involved in a feud with Awesome"- Done.
Change all instances (apart from the first) of "Awesome Kong" to "Kong"- Done.
"which followed Saeed tripping O.D.B from the outside" - huh? I don't understand that at all. Reword it.- Done.
"A match was later made to take place at Lockdown involving O.D.B and Gail Kim versus Saeed and Awesome Kong." - change to "This resulted in the women's tag team match being made for Lockdown". You've already explained the participants for the match. It sounds redundant to do it again.- Done.
You use both "B.G." (with full stops) and "BG" (without full stops). Be consistent and use one.- Done.
Change second/third instances of "Sonjay Dutt" to "Dutt".- Done.
Change second instance of "Johnny Devine" to Devine.- Done.
Change " fifth matches were on the April 03 episode of Impact! and the April 10 episode" "fifth matches occured on the April 3 And April 10 editions of Impact!"- Done.
Change second mention of "Consequences Creed" to Creed.- Done.
Can you add in how Curry Man and Dutt won their matches? You say it for the rest of the qualifiers, but not them.- Done, I didn't know them at the time and I guess never thought to add them in.
The first 3 paragraphs begin with "The" and the last 2 begin with "Another". Mix it up, to avoid repition.- I'll try, I have it down to only 3 with "The" as the beginning. Not sure what else to do. I have no ideas.
-- I'm logging off now, but I'll finish up later. Hope this helps!! ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 07:20, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, thanks again. I've got them all done besides one which I'm not sure how to go about. I can't believe I missed so many small things. Hopefully I'll learn from my mistakes. This helps me alot. I'm learning from someone who is nice and knows more than me, while I'm also getting a article to GA. This helps a extreme amount. I do have a question. Do I have enough references and are they all placed right?--WillC 08:22, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- It's no problem, and I'm glad it's helping. Thanks for the compliment! I'll explain: I'm going to do the event section now, followed by the aftermath. Then I'll look at the references and pictures, and then I'll make one final read through of the article to make sure I've caught everything, and that's it's out of universe. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 19:56, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- Event
Does the order of eliminations matter? Like are they staggered entrances, like 2 start off, and then the next one entered 2 minutes later? If not, the order of entrances doesn't matter; it just makes it harder to read.Change the second instances of Johnny Devine, Consequences Creed, Sonjay Dutt, and Jay Lethal to Devine Creed Dutt and Lethal.- Done.
You need to reword some of it. There's a lot of "eliminate him by getting the pin" type sentences, and you've used "eliminate" 5 times in as many sntences. Try to change it up.- Okay, Ive fixed but not sure if it is good enough.
Change Sonjay Dutt to Dutt the third time he's mentioned.- Done.
Reword "Devine tried to escape the cage but, was stopped by Sonjay Dutt, who never left the ring area. Dutt stood on the outside of the cage and kept the cage door shut, not allowing referees to open it, nor allowing Devine to escape through the door. Due to this, Devine tried to climb the cage to the outside" to "Devine tried to escape from the cage but was stopped by Dutt, who never left ringside, and kept the cage-door shut. Due to this, Devine had to climb the cage to attempt to escape."- Done.
"by giving him a knife, who was tied on the other side of the ring" doesn't make any sense whatsoever.- Done, reworded.
- Who is SoCal Val? Why was she at ringside? If she's Lethals valet add that in.
- She is the ring girl. She wasn't his valent untl recently. She is always at the ring. So I didn't think to mention it. She is really his love interest. Jay Lethal has a Randy Savage type gimmick. SoCal is suppose to be Miss Elizabeth. So I'm not sure what to say because she is his love interest but I didn't think that would work. She was already at the ring so she isn't his valent. Not sure how to go at this one.--WillC 22:42, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Change "By his victory" to "This vicory meant that"- Done.
Change "for Number One Contendership" to "for the number one contendership" - it doesn't need to be capitalised.- Done.
Again, is the entrance order important?- Done, I do that with everyone of them. I don't know what I'm doing. I was trying to decribe the event. I guess I know better now.
Change "enter the cage were Angelina Love and Roxxi Laveaux" to "enter the cage were Love and Laveaux".- Done.
Change "Love hit the Lights Out" to "Love performed the Lights Out"- Done.
Wikilink near fall - [[List of professional wrestling slang#N|near fall]]- Done.
Remove "It lasting about seven minutes". I've never seen that written in an event section.- Done.
Again, you use both B.G. and BG - consistency again. use the one that you sue in the background section.- Done.
You say "The match was mostly dominated by Kip". Add in how. Say something like " The match was mostly dominated by Kip, who gained control after a ______".- Done, It might work. That is what happened but I'm not good at describing stuff.
"to handcuff all of the teams to the cage with handcuffs" - you just need to say "to handcuff all of the teams to the cage".- Done.
Again did entrances make a difference in the match?- Done, sorry. I did it for all of them.
"Kaz had to compete the match" - add in a "in" - "Kaz had to compete in the match".- Done.
Remove "The match lasted about eleven minutes."- Done.
Make sure second mentions of people are last name only. I see Eric Young, Scott Steiner, Alex Shelly, Petey Williams, Chris Sabin, Black Reign, Lance Hoyt, Jimmy Rave and Eric Young again.- Done.
Grammar - "However" should never be used at the start of a sentence. Change "However, Eric" to "Eric, however,"- Done.
Change "No less than a minute later, his partner Chris Sabin was cuffed as well by Kaz" to "Less than a minute later, his partner Sabin was also cuffed by Kaz"- Done.
Change "Eric would cuff" to "Eric cuffed".- Done.
Change "Because of Eric being the last left" to "Due to Eric being the last person left"- Done.
-- I gotta go again. I'll back in about3/4 hours and I'll finish then. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 20:15, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, thanks again. I've learned more from my mistakes. Sorry there are so many errors.--WillC 22:42, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
- Alright. I have another one done. The Morgan one from the Backround is finsihed.--WillC 23:00, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
Feedback Pt. 2
Event
Change "was next: Awesome Kong" to "was next, with Awesome Kong"- Done.
"Kong and Saeed dominated most of the match." - again, say how they gained control. It's more encyclopedic to say "Kong and Saeed dominated most of the match, after ____ performed a _____."- Done.
Change "Kim hit a missile dropkick on Kong to make her unable to defend her partner. O.D.B then climbed" to "Kim hit a missile dropkick on Kong, which enabled O.D.B to climb"- Done.
Change "undercard was next: Booker T" to "undercard was next, whcih featured Booker T"- Done.
"stayed behind the ropes." - Do you mean out of the ring, on the apron? If so, change to "stayed out of the ring". "stayed behind the ropes." sounds awkward."beat him down" is too informal. Say "control the match".- Done.
Wikilink "chops" and "low blow"- Done.
Change "After they left the ring, Roode and Banks had a confrontation. Roode called Banks stupid and blamed her for their lost" to "After they left the ring, Roode and Banks had a confrontation, with Roode blaming Banks for their loss".- Done.
Change "James Storm (with Jacqueline))" to "James Sorm, who was accompanied by Jacqueline)" - avoid having the double brackets at the end."The rules of the match stated" - should be "The rules of the match state" to be consistent with tense.Change "It was set to" to "It was supposed to"Change "and did a flying" to "and performed a flying""bell rung" should be "bell rang"."beat down" - again, too informal/slang - change to dominate.Second instance of "James Storm" - change to Storm.You consistently use "Brother Ray", but then you just say "Devon". Either it's just Ray and Devon or it's Brother ray and Brother Devon.Second instance of Kevin Nash - change to NashChange "until the next entrance" to "until the next entrant"Second instance of "Matt Morgan", change to Morgan."dominating every Team Tomko member" - how? mention a move or two he performed.Change "ceiling was lowered. Covered with trash cans, steel chairs, kendo sticks, trash can lids, a table, and a ladder." to "ceiling, which was covered with weapons including a ladder, table, trash cans and kendo sticks, was lowered."Change "As soon as the ceiling finished lowering" to "As soon as the ceiling was fully lowered"Change "weapons as possible. They then started to beat each other with them" to "weapons as possible, and began to use them"Change "most of the members" to "most of the participants""There they" should be "There, they""inside of the cage" should be "inside the cage""table, that" - should be either "table, which" or "table that""Storm encouraged him on" should be "Storm encouraged him"Change "where he attacked Storm and laid him out. Cage then ascended to the top" to "where he attacked Storm, and then ascended to the top"Change "Storm later woke up and pushed the ladder over, which fell in the direction of the middle, towards a table set up earlier." to "Storm recovered and pushed the ladder over, which fell in the direction of the table, which had been set up earlier."Change "Storm then climbed down into the cage and cracked a beer bottle over the head of Morgan" to "Storm then climbed back down into the cage and hit Morgan in the head with a beer bottle"Change "Joe was the first to enter the arena, but before he entered, Samoan fire dancers came out and performed for the crowd, as a tradition in Joe's proud Samoan heritage." to "Joe entered first, follwing a Samoan fire dancers performance, to show his pride in his Samoan heritage."Also, if you can, wikilink "Samoan fire dancers"Change "Following the performance, Joe entered the arena and walked to the ring. Immediately after Joe entered the ring, Angle entered. Jeremy Borash was seen in the ring with both the Champion and Challenger, as well as Joe's trainer: Marcus Davis, who was to present the victor the TNA Championship, and referee Rudy Charles." to "Angle entered second, and then the introductions were made, including those for the referee Rudy Charles, Jeremy Borash, and Marcus Davis, Joe's trainer and who was to present the victor with the TNA Championship."Also, say who Jeremy Borash is.Change "Introductions were then done for all of them. When introductions came to Joe and Angle it switched to MMA and Professional Boxing style introductions." to "Joe and Angle's introductions were done in the style of MMA and Professional Boxing introductions."Change "Video switched to Kurt Angle's wife Karen Angle, who was sitting in attendance. Angle became enraged, and demanded that she be removed from the building. She was escorted by security out of the building screaming obscenities." to "Karen Angle, Angle's wife, was shown on-screen, enraging Angle. He had her removed from the building as she screamed obscenities."Also say why seeing Karen enraged Kurt. Are they separated or something?Second instance of "Rudy Charles" should be "Charles"- Can you wikilink "Chain-wrestling"?
Change "There were counters from one submission move to another as each man tried to gain the advantage" to "As each man tried to gain the advantage, they countered the other's submission moves."Change "throat, he then" to "throat. He then"Change second instance of "Marcus Davis" to "Davis"Change "TNA Championship immediately following his victory. Joe then celebrated his victory as the event came to a close" to "TNA Championship and Joe celebrated his victory as the event came to a close."
Aftermath
"the April 27, 2008" - the 2008 is unneccessary. Remove it.Change "Joe won after performing a Muscle Buster, which followed Steiner hitting Angle with a lead pipe" to "Joe won after Steiner hit Angle with a lead pipe, allowing Joe to perform a Muscle Buster.""Change "Cornette said the Triple Threat would still happen even though Angle was injured." to "Cornette declared that the Triple Threat would still happen despite Angle's injury."Spelling - "unseccessful" should be "unsuccessful"Change "Feast or Fired Briefcase, which had a X Division Championship match in it, on Lethal" to "Feast or Fired Briefcase, which gave him a X Division Championship match, against Lethal"Change "result, Jim Cornette" to "result, Management Director Cornette"Change "had been kayfabe injured in Japan" to "had sustanied a [[Kayfabe|storyline]] injury in Japan"Change "World tag titles" to "World Tag Team titles"
Results
In the main table and in the "Xscape match Eliminations" table, under times, singles number (i.e. matches under 10 minutes) should have a "0" in front, to allow it to sort properly. So, 5:27 would be 05:27.In the "Xscape match Eliminations" in the notes section, say "Pinfall after a _____"In the "Cuffed in the Cage Eliminations" table, wikilink everyone in the "Eliminated Wrestler" column, and no-one in the "Eliminated By" column.In the "Cuffed in the Cage Eliminations" table, the headings should be "Elimination number", "Eliminated wrestler" and "Eliminated by"
Images
Per WP:MOS#IMAGES, the Kurt Angle picture in the Background should be on the right.Again, per WP:MOS#IMAGES, the Samoa Joe picture in the Event section should be on the left.In the event scetion, could you move some of the pictures up a little? There's none for 5 paragraphs, and then 4 all at once. Perhaps remove the AJ Styles one, and add a picture of either Jay Lethal, Roxxi Laveaux, B.G. James, or Eric Young.
References
In the background, you need a reference for Joe being off-air "training".In the background, add a reference for "Sting, Cage, Rhino, and Nash versus Styles, Tomko, and Team 3D, which Team Cage won"In the background, add references for Booker's debut, Roode fracturing Sharmells jaw, and Booker and Roodes matches at Against All Odds and Destination X.- In the background, add a reference for OBD and Kim wanting a match with Saaed.
In the background, add a reference for BG using his Feast or Fired Tag Team Championship shot with his dad, and one for the rematch with Kip and Bob Armstrong.- Done, already had one for the BG using his title shot.
- The event section is tricky with references. It all depends on the reviewer. Some want everything referenced, others only want certain parts referenced. As far as I can see, there's only a few places where references need to be added (which I'll add below), but be aware that some reviewers might want more references for some parts.
- Hopefully I'll get one that doesn't care a great deal. All of my references are from GA articles. I got the sites from them. PWTorch, WrestleView, Online World of Wrestling, Wrestling Oberserver, Slam, PWWEW, Gerweck.net, and the best of all, TNA. From the ones they keep.--WillC 07:42, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Add a reference for the particpating teams in the Cuffed in the Cage match.- Add a reference for the fact that the Lethal Lockdown match supposed to start with Cage and Tomko.
Add a reference for Cage falling off the cage.Add a reference for the ceiling being lowered with the weapons.Add a reference for Cage and Styles going through the table.Add a reference for Borash, Charles and Davis being in the ring.Add a reference for Karen being taken out of the building.Add a reference for Joe celebrating as the show ended.
In the aftermath section, add a reference for Angle's injury and Cornette saying that the ThunderDome winner would replace him.Add a reference for Kaz winning the ThunderDome.Add a reference for Cornette vacating the Tag team titles.Add a reference for Styles and Tomko breaking up due to Styles losing the championships.
-- Once you've completed all of the above, hit me up on my talk page, and I'll take one final look through the article for anything I might have missed. ;) ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 00:13, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, I'm going to the drive-in right now (movies). I'll fix them when I get back. Thanks again.--WillC 00:24, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
Final read through
- Lead
Change "The Team Cage and Team Tomko rivalry ended afterwards, with Rhino and Cage forming a tag team. They competed in the Deuces Wild Tag Team Tournament for the vacant TNA World Tag Team Championship at Sacrifice. While Tomko sustained an on-screen injury in Japan." to "The Team Cage and Team Tomko rivalry ended afterwards, with Rhino and Cage forming a tag team, while Tomko sustained an on-screen injury in Japan. They competed in the Deuces Wild Tag Team Tournament for the vacant TNA World Tag Team Championship at Sacrifice."
- Background
Can you move the Kurt Angle photo down a little? Just to avoid all the white space at the top.Change MMA to Mixed Martial Arts and wikilink it.Change "a match was made for later that night between Sting, Cage, Rhino, and Nash versus Styles, Tomko, and Team 3D" to "a match was made for later that night with Sting, Cage, Rhino, and Nash versus Styles, Tomko, and Team 3D""fractured a her jaw" should just be "fractured her jaw".You still have the first three paragraphs in the section beginning with "The". In the second paragraph change "The secondary feud going into Lockdown" to "Going into Lockdown, the secondary feud"
- Event
In one place it says "Curry man". You have the "m" capitalised the rest of the time. Be consistent.Change "climb the cage to attempt to escape" to "climb the cage in an attempt to escape"Change "hand in victory and to show a sign of friendship," to "hand in victory and as a sign of friendship,"Change "ODB" to "O.D.B." for consistency.- I forgot about those. I really need to make sure I don't miss anything on Destination X and Victory Road.
The caption for the Booker T image should read "Booker T ended his with Robert Roode at Lockdown"Change "size and advange in strength" to "size and strength advantage"Change "because of them being separated at the time and he didn't want a distraction from his match." to "as they were separated at the time, and he didn't want to be distracted from his match."Could you move the Joe picture up a few lines, to avoid it screwing with the "aftermath" title?The Joe picture caption should read "Samoa Joe, who won the TNA World Heavyweight Championship for the first time at Lockdown"
- Aftermath
The first instance of "Joe" and "Angle" should be "Samoa Joe" (wikilinked) and "Kurt Angle" (wikilinked).Jay Lethal should be wikilinkedYou have "Latin American xchange" wikilinked twice. remove the second one.
- Results
- References
- OK, the OBD/Kim/Saaed reference isn't that important, it's logical to think that they were annoyed about her costing them title matches. Ok, the Tomko one is fine too.
- The references that are there are reliable, and if the reviewer wants more references, I think the SLAM! one definetly should cover most of the info in the event section. I don't think you'll have a problem with that.
- Once you've completed these, you can add the article to the waiting list! Good luck, ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 23:52, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
- By the way, Nikki did some more copyediting after I did this review, so if the mistakes I've highlighted aren't there, that's why. ♥Nici♥Vampire♥Heart♥ 05:43, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
GA Review
- This review is transcluded from [[{{subst:Lockdown (2008)}}]]. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
- Lead
Remove "the American promotion""As per tradition" --> "As per tradition of Lockdown events""The main event was" --> "The main event was between""Team Cage won the match when" --> "Team Cage won the match after""after performing" --> "after delivering""featured Booker T and Sharmell against Robert Roode and Payton Banks" --> "featured the tag team encounter between the team of Booker T and Sharmell and the team of Robert Roode and Payton Banks""won by pinfall, when Sharmell pinned Banks with a roll-up" --> "won by pinfall after Sharmell pinned Banks""with the exception of Joe and Angle." --> with the exception of the feud between Joe and Angle.""Their feud continued, but with the addition of Scott Steiner. They were all involved in a 3-Way Dance at Sacrifice." --> "Scott Steiner became a part of the feud, and the three were involved in a 3-Way Dance at Sacrifice.""It was changed at the event to Joe versus Steiner versus Kaz, because of Angle sustaining a legitimate injury in Korea." --> "Kaz replaced Angle in the match though, due to a legit injury that Angle sustained in Korea."Wiki-link "Muscle buster" and change "on" --> "onto""get the pin." --> "score the pinfall.""They competed" --> "Rhino and Cage competed""vacant TNA World Tag Team Championship", unlink "TNA World Tag Team Championship""Cage and Rhino were" --> "They were"
- Background
- Combine the first two paragraphs about the same feud.
"with the two battling" --> "with the two feuding""March 13 episode of" --> "March 13 edition of""that at Lockdown Angle" --> "that at Lockdown, Angle""the same episode of" -->"the same edition of""Going into Lockdown, the secondary feud" --> "The secondary feud heading into Lockdown,"was between the two teams competing" --> "was between Team Cage (A, B, C, D) and Team Tomko (A, B, C, D)"The team captains announced by Jim Cornette on the March 13 episode of Impact! were Tomko and Christian Cage, following the announcement of Angle versus Joe." --> On the March 13 edition of Impact!, Jim Cornette announced that Cage and Tomko would be named team captains at Lockdown""Tomko decided that his teammates" --> "Tomko announced that his teammates""after 3D helped Tomko and Styles" --> "after Team 3D helped Tomko and Styles""Cage picked Rhino and Kevin Nash as his teammates after Cage saved Rhino from a attack by Team Tomko and Nash befriended Cage." -- "Cage chose Rhino and Kevin Nash as his teammates after Cage saved Rhino from an attack by Team Tomko and Nash befriended Cage.""On the March 20 episode" --> "On the March 20 edition"Wiki-link "beer"On the April 3 episode" --> "On the April 3 edition""Cornette's stand in for the night" --> "Cornette's replacement for the night""The primary match on the undercard was between Booker T and Sharmell, and Robert Roode and Payton Banks" --" The primary feud on the undercard was between the team of Booker T and Sharmell, and the team of Robert Roode and Payton Banks"reword or remove "pushed him further down the ladder of success""Booker T and Roode then fought" --> "Booker T and Roode then competed in a match at both"On the March 20 episode of Impact!" --> "On the March 20 edition of Impact!""Wiki-link "Women's division" to TNA Knockout"which followed Saeed grabbing" --> "which was followed by Saeed grabbing""This resulted in the women's tag team match being made for Lockdown" --> "A tag team match was then made between the team of Kim and O.D.B. and the team of Kong and Saeed""Kip was angry" --> "Kip was displeased""Later, a match was made for Lockdown." --> Later, a match was made between Kip and B.G. for Lockdown""Champion Jay Lethal defended the X Division Championship against Johnny Devine, Sonjay Dutt, Curry Man, Shark Boy, and Consequences Creed." --> ""- Consistency needs to be kept in the last paragraph when mention the date of the match.
Split these sentences "The fourth and fifth matches occurred on the April 3 and April 10 editions of Impact!.[36][37] The matches were Shark Boy versus Elix Skipper and Creed, who was debuting, versus Jimmy Rave. Shark Boy won the first bout by pinning Skipper following a Chummer. Creed won the second after performing a Creed-DT." to have one sentence talk about the fourth match, and one sentence about the fifth.
- Event
Isn't is Curry Man, and not Curry man?"as they tagged together " --> but this was not a tag match...re-wordRemove "After Lethal entered the ring, the match officially began."top rope of the cage...the cage has ropes?"Later Curry man" --> "Later, Curry Man"
More will come later, but to save me some work, please have somebody copy-edit the event section. Cheers, -- iMatthew T.C. 12:55, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
- Well I don't know how much good it will do. I've already had it copyedited three times, but I'll go ask someone.--WillC 17:19, 27 July 2008 (UTC)
- Tasks
Alright, so I am going away this Thursday (8-07-08) and coming back the following Wednesday (8-13-08). That gives you a few days plus a week to complete these requests, as I will return to the review when I return. In the mean time, complete these tasks:
Per new consensus,
- Remove the background/aftermath from the lead completely.
- The first paragraph of the lead should be general information about the event and should explain professional wrestling.
- The second paragraph should describe the main event matches and featured undercard matches
- The third paragraph should describe the event's reception.
- TNA isn't a publicly traded company so I can't give ppv buys or how much money they made off of the event because they don't have to release that information. Also Lethal Lockdown and Six Sides of Steel are used every year so it makes no sense to say that it was the fourth time it was used because it is a given.--WillC 06:27, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
For examples, see The Great American Bash (2005), SummerSlam (2003), and SummerSlam (1988).
- In the event section, split the section into "Preliminary matches" (The undercard matches) and "Main event matches" (The main event matches and the featured undercard matches).
- Give the article a complete copyedit, and ask other editors to copyedit for you (a new pair of eyes is always good)
- Done, I've asked two and neither have gave me a copyedit yet. I've almost done everything I know to the event. I'll do more when I take it out of universe.
- Add a reception section to the aftermath. (See the PPV's mentioned above)
- Per WP:OVERLINK, once a wiki-link is added in the background, it should not be linked for the rest of the article.
- Remove all wrestling jargon: if you need help with this, ask any editor at WP:PW. Maybe ask User:SRX as I know he is good at removing jargon.
- If you know how, clean-up the references, by checking the publishers, dates, authors, access dates, titles, and url's. If you don't know how, ask somebody for assistance.
- Done, I just placed them in a few weeks ago. I don't believe the urls have changed that quick. Well I've added the writer's names. I keep forgetting to add those everytime I write a reference. Now the PWWEW references don't work. The urls are right from the articles but everytime I click on them after I write them they go to their results pages for PPV and TV shows.--WillC 06:27, 5 August 2008 (UTC)
When I come back, I will review your work. Cheers, -- iMatthew T.C. 18:50, 3 August 2008 (UTC)
I've had a difficult time finding time to review the article, so I will most likely request a second opinion at WP:GAN. -- iMatthew T.C. 00:46, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
GA Review - second opinion
This is clearly a much-loved article, and represents a lot of hard work. It is comprehensive and sensibly laid out but I don't believe it meets GA standards.
- Criterion 1 - there is still quite a lot of tidying up of the writing to do. Look at my recent edits for examples of several common problems - incorrect use of 'when', and very long sentences that go off at a tangent in their middle sections. Probably best to get someone who's good at copyediting and knows nothing about the topic to go through the article.
- Criterion 2 - The referencing does not meet the GA standard. Taking the last para of the 'Background' section only as an example, the following are not covered by the references given:
- "Kip was displeased that B.G. teamed with his father,"
- "a Tornado-Plex on B.G. allowed Styles and Tomko to gain the pinfall"
- "The Tornado-Plex is a move in which one wrestler has the opponent's legs on his or her shoulders and is facing the first wrestler, while the second wrestler performs a neckbreaker on their opponent."
- "A rematch took place on Impact!, however, B.G. was injured so Kip took his place in the match"
- "During the match, Kip attacked B.G. and Armstrong, in storyline"
- " In the weeks leading up to the event, TNA aired special video packages entitled "Rough Cut", which were about Kip and B.G.'s friendship and history together as a tag team." This is ref'd, but the source does not say that the segment was about their friendship and history together.
- The Rough Cut might be available. Mainly you have to see Impact to know he was upset. Why else would a match be made between the two and he attacking them. Though the references should tell about the Tornado-Plex and Kip attacking B.G. and his dad, however it won't tell what a tornadoplex is. The link does though. I'm sorry, I had the references in the wrong places. I didn't notice that until now. Thanks for noticing.--WillC 19:18, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
- Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking for a citation after every sentence, but the citations given support nothing other than the bare results of some of the matches. The rest appears to be original research from the writers of the article. Can you find other sources to support the content here? Are the regular Impact! shows available to reference?
- I watched everyone of the shows, as well as the ppv three times. The refs should say what move they used. TNA removes their results pages after a few weeks. They are no longer there. TNA does place clips of their TV show on their Youtube page, but I'm not sure which ones are on there.--WillC 19:18, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
- It looks as if this problem exists throughout the article, not just in this one para I've used as an example.
- Criterion 3c - I have my doubts about 'staying focussed on the topic'. There is a huge amount of detail here about the storylines leading up to the event, in particular in what moves were used by whom to win their matches. This feels like an attempt to create a plot summary of the whole event and related storylines. I'd recommend cutting the length of the 'Background' section by at least a half.
Happy to discuss any of this. 4u1e (talk) 14:58, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
- How would you like me to cut it down, remove a few sentences? Reword a few of them?--WillC 19:18, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
- If it were me, I'd cut about half of them out completely. However, I'm not familiar with the standards of WP:PW, so perhaps I'm on the wrong track. Can we get someone who is familiar with the Wikiproject to give us a view on whether this level of detail is correct? It seems massively excessive to me. Thanks. 4u1e (talk) 11:50, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
- OK, I've been having a look at the WP:PW style guide, which suggests that the three or four main feuds should be desribed in the background section. The article currently describes six storyline feuds - I suggest that the Kip/BG, Kim/O.D.B. and Saeed/Kong and Booker T/Roode rivalries could perhaps be cut from the background section. Again though, I don't kow much about this stuff. Which rivalries are the most important? 4u1e (talk) 13:44, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
- The style guide is really only guidelines from what members have written and what has been discussed at WT:PW. My personal opinion would be to remove the Kip/BG storyline and the Booker T/Roode storyline. I think the Background section is OK, as it covers the rivalries adequatly (sp?). I think the Background section looks quite big, as some of the moves and match types are explained, which is a good thing for out-of-universe writing styles. The only two parts I would consider shortening is the "Cuffed in the Cage match" section and the Cage/Tomko match description. D.M.N. (talk) 13:58, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
- OK, I've been having a look at the WP:PW style guide, which suggests that the three or four main feuds should be desribed in the background section. The article currently describes six storyline feuds - I suggest that the Kip/BG, Kim/O.D.B. and Saeed/Kong and Booker T/Roode rivalries could perhaps be cut from the background section. Again though, I don't kow much about this stuff. Which rivalries are the most important? 4u1e (talk) 13:44, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
- If it were me, I'd cut about half of them out completely. However, I'm not familiar with the standards of WP:PW, so perhaps I'm on the wrong track. Can we get someone who is familiar with the Wikiproject to give us a view on whether this level of detail is correct? It seems massively excessive to me. Thanks. 4u1e (talk) 11:50, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
- How would you like me to cut it down, remove a few sentences? Reword a few of them?--WillC 19:18, 14 August 2008 (UTC)
- I would actually like to keep those feuds in there. They each had a good amount of time added to them and were long lasting feuds. Kim/Kong were fighting since the begining of the year. Roode/Booker T were fighting since the begininng of the new year. Also the last time I checked it said I could have more than 4 matches if I wished. I can cut them down the best way I can. But if it is possible I would like to keep them in the article.--WillC 18:08, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, I've cut the section for the Xscape match by half. The two smaller matches by 1/3. The second main match by a 1/4, maybe. The main match by a small amount. I've removed over 2,000 letters. Hopefully the background is smaller. I hope it is good enough that I don't have to remove any matches because I feel people wouldn't understand what the other matches were about. Also I'll start cutting down the Event section tomorrow. I have to get up to go and work on a friends farm in the morning so I have to get to bed.--WillC 06:45, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
- OK, I can see you been working at it. I'm going to have to step out the debate on what should be cut. Please take the advice of your fellow WP:PW editors on that. What I can tell you is that as a novice to this topic, the article is overloaded with detail. The removal of in-depth descriptions of what every move means helps in this respect, although I note D.M.N's point that they may be needed to make the article clear for non-wrestling fans
- My best advice at this point is to let me fail the GA nom - I just don't think it's there: I think a lot more work is needed on the writing, some of your recent additions will also need copyediting, and it will take a while to sort the article out. I'd suggest getting a peer review to really work out what content is needed in the article, and then to get an experienced copyeditor to work on it. Try the list at WP:PRV for some volunteers. I'm happy to help as well, but I don't have the time this week to work on the article. Are you content with this? 4u1e (talk) 17:28, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
- I guess so, but I would rather it not be failed since I've been working on it since June and it has taken me alot of time to get here and I would like to get it done now. Plus peer reviews in WP:PW don't work for TNA articles. I had this up for a peer review and got one opinion while WWE stuff gets around 5 or more. Plus I placed Sacrifice (2008) up and it got one as well for more than a week. How about I place a section up at WT:PW and get more users from the project involved?--WillC 19:42, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
- That sounds like a great suggestion - I know the feeling of not being able to get much feedback! Thing is it may take a while, and this has been on hold already for around three weeks. Failing GA is a perfectly normal step on the route to achieving greatness, so don't worry! 4u1e (talk) 20:26, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
- Yeah, somebody just did a copyedit on it, so it may be a little different since he removed the real names and alot of other stuff.--WillC 20:41, 18 August 2008 (UTC)
- Sorry about the confusion. I tried to post an explanation of my edits here, but there must have ben an edit conflict. I removed the real names that were already included in the lead section, as I didn't feel they need to be repeated in the background section. I have copyedited the article (without removing any feuds from the background section) and have trimmed 7,000 bytes while keeping almost all of the information. If more trimming is needed, please respond here with specific paragraphs that need work. GaryColemanFan (talk) 04:20, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, I've cut the section for the Xscape match by half. The two smaller matches by 1/3. The second main match by a 1/4, maybe. The main match by a small amount. I've removed over 2,000 letters. Hopefully the background is smaller. I hope it is good enough that I don't have to remove any matches because I feel people wouldn't understand what the other matches were about. Also I'll start cutting down the Event section tomorrow. I have to get up to go and work on a friends farm in the morning so I have to get to bed.--WillC 06:45, 16 August 2008 (UTC)
- Thank you very much, you helped me alot. I've copyedit it 40 times. To a point I didn't know what was good and what was bad. I'm surprised at how much could be removed. This helps me with cutting down sacrifice now that I have something to copy off of.--WillC 04:30, 19 August 2008 (UTC)
Since neither reviewer has returned in 10 days, I am going to request that a new review be performed. GaryColemanFan (talk) 14:26, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
- Apologies for disappearing. In my defence I would say that I had thought the purpose of a second opinion was just that! I didn't expect to be taking over responsibility for the review from iMatthew. I've also had a hellaciously busy couple of weeks both at work and doing various essential work round the house, so just haven't been on WP that much.
- Anyway. I'm still busy, so don't have time to take over the full review for this. I will note though that in my opinion, the writing is much improved (well done!), so perhaps the next reviewer can focus on something else! I haven't checked the referencing. Cheers and keep up the good work. 4u1e (talk) 16:40, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
GA Review - third opinion by User:Royalbroil
I have worked with 4u1e a lot, and he's been extremely busy off-Wiki. I couldn't get him to peer review an article for me.
Comments:
1) Images: Fair use rationale present on poster and DVD images. Booker T image should get a basic description on Commons. The Jay Lethal image doesn't actually state that the uploader took the picture so I'm not sure if it's legit or not. Please contact the uploader and ask them to add a statement to the image. Christian Cage needs to be reviewed for categories on Commons. Samoa Joe image has both no description and a statement about who took the picture. Scott Steiner's image has an unknown problem with a different size on English Wikipedia vs. Commons, so I've ask an admin there for help.
2) Referencing: Bunch up the references when possible. At this writing, references #56 & 57 are for the same source in every respect. They should be given a name and that name referenced multiple times. A single reference should only appear once. For example, in the first case you would use <ref name="A">...</ref>, and in the second (and subsequent) case you just need to add <ref name="A" />. All citations to that reference just use the same name, like "A" in my example. Struck out, looks like it was an isolated incident to fix.
3) Prose issues:
- "as he was supposedly training for his match at Lockdown" - supposedly doesn't sound encyclopedic, how about "reportedly".
Comparison to GA criteria:
- Well Written: Yes
- Factually accurate and verifiable: Yes. Sources appear to be relatively reliable.
- Broad in its coverage: Yes
- Neutral: Yes, good job explaining while staying out of universe
- Stable: Definitely
- Illustrated, if possible, by images: Image tagging issues need to be addressed.
That's it - it needs some minor adjustments before it passes GA criteria. Royalbroil 03:33, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, actually 56 and 57 are two different weeks. One is for July 19 and the other is for July 12. Now as for the pictures above. That may take me a while since I've never worked on commons and I don't work on pictures. I just upload DVD images and posters. Also thank you for undertaking the review. I'll fix these within a few. I'm working on it as I speak.--WillC 03:40, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- I contacted the uploader of the Jay Lethal and Samoa Joe pictures. He's well known for uploading great wrestling pictures, so I have no doubt that they're legitimate. I've asked him to provide descriptions and a statement that he took each of the pictures. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:00, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- Everything is done besides the Steiner picture problem and Mshake3 fixing the Joe and Lethal pictures.--WillC 05:08, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- I also added to the titles of references 56 and 57 to make it clear that they are different pages. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:14, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, the Steiner picture is fixed.--WillC 07:23, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- I am satisified with the referencing, prose, as well as the progress on the images. An optional but highly recommended step is to transfer all of the images to Commons so that all of the Wikipedia projects can share them. Royalbroil 12:02, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- Well all the images besides the Lethal and Joe pictures are from Commons. I'll see if I can get the uploader to transfer them there.--WillC 18:58, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- Anyone can upload any image from the English Wikipedia to Commons (as long as it's free use and not fair use like the poster and DVD images). At Commons, you hit upload, and then you say you want to upload it from the English Wikipedia. Make sure you select the option to have a bot do the uploading for you. I think it's real easy, otherwise I wouldn't have asked you to do it. Royalbroil 01:20, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
- I've transferred them over to there. Now Mshake3 just has to fix his end and I guess that will be all.--WillC 03:55, 4 September 2008 (UTC)
- Well all the images besides the Lethal and Joe pictures are from Commons. I'll see if I can get the uploader to transfer them there.--WillC 18:58, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, Mshake3 has fixed his end in a way. The Joe picture isn't his. He just uploaded it from commons. Okay, is there anything else you would like fixed.--WillC 19:31, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
- Mshake3 only addressed one of the images. I asked Mshake to do the same thing for the Joe image. If Mshake didn't take the image, then he/she shouldn't have uploaded the image. If there's something wrong like that with the image, you can always remove it from the article. It's the only thing holding up the article from passing GA. Royalbroil 02:28, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
- I am satisified with the referencing, prose, as well as the progress on the images. An optional but highly recommended step is to transfer all of the images to Commons so that all of the Wikipedia projects can share them. Royalbroil 12:02, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, the Steiner picture is fixed.--WillC 07:23, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- I also added to the titles of references 56 and 57 to make it clear that they are different pages. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:14, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- Everything is done besides the Steiner picture problem and Mshake3 fixing the Joe and Lethal pictures.--WillC 05:08, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- I contacted the uploader of the Jay Lethal and Samoa Joe pictures. He's well known for uploading great wrestling pictures, so I have no doubt that they're legitimate. I've asked him to provide descriptions and a statement that he took each of the pictures. GaryColemanFan (talk) 05:00, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, actually 56 and 57 are two different weeks. One is for July 19 and the other is for July 12. Now as for the pictures above. That may take me a while since I've never worked on commons and I don't work on pictures. I just upload DVD images and posters. Also thank you for undertaking the review. I'll fix these within a few. I'm working on it as I speak.--WillC 03:40, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
- Would this image work Image:Samoa Joe Sign.jpg?--WillC 02:31, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
- Okay, I'm done, what do you think?--WillC 02:46, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
- No!!! thank you for reviewing it!!!!!!! I'm just gald it is a GA. Now I can take it to FAC. I was only planing on taking it to GA but since I've worked on it alot and two editors outside of WP:PW think it is well written I'm taking it there after a peer review and a few changes. Good day and thank you very much for taking the time to review it.--WillC 04:13, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Pre-FAC review
- The recent wrestling FAs all explain the various moves by the wrestlers. This serves to reduce the jargon in the article. Unless the wrestling project has changed its view recently, I'd suggest fleshing out moves like The Voodoo Drop.
- "B.G. was victorious in the match when he grabbed Kip and pulled him down over onto his back...". Too much going on with "down over onto". It makes me not understand what is being written.
- A few of the wrestlers in the fourth match need links.
- Main event matches: "in
awhat is known as a flying forearm strike. - I don't like the "The ceiling was lowered covered with" sentence; an adjustment would be a good idea.
- Remove the capital letters from Mixed Martial Arts and Professional Boxing.
- "and to start the longest TNA World Heavyweight Championship reign;" Change the semi-colon to a comma?
- Reception: "Simon Rothstein, a journalist for the United Knigdom newspaper The Sun, in his review when he spoke of the main event..." Too wordy. Try working off of this: "Simon Rothstein, a journalist for the United Knigdom newspaper The Sun, wrote in his review that the main event..." I'm sure that can be improved further, but it will do for now.
Hopefully, these will save a few headaches at FAC. I'm going to be swamped in real life, so I may not be able to give a review at FAC immediately. Giants2008 (17-14) 05:01, 14 November 2008 (UTC)
- All your comments are finished. What do you think of the changes?--WillC 09:10, 14 November 2008 (UTC)