Talk:List of Formula One World Drivers' Champions

Andretti's Nationality

My level of nationalism is very very low (approx zero) so it is strange that I have to point this out. As the Wikipedia page for the driver Mario Andretti states, his nationality is Italian and only later he naturalized American, but this situation was not a fault of the Italian government. He still has family and friends in Italy. So according to me the stars-and-stripes near his name are not 100% appropriate, and especially the statistics should be updated to show an Italian driver more and an American driver less. Again, take into account that I'm Italian, but take also into account that who will take the final decision (you!) is American... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Fafa1971 (talk • contribs) 19:24, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, I'm British (and therefore hopefully neutral) and since Andretti became a naturalised American before he ever competed in F1, and because he officially competed for the US when he was in F1, the article is correct as it stands. Cheers. 4u1e (talk) 22:55, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

What about Jackie Stewart then? He's listed with the Union Jack, but if you look at this picture you see he's driving with the Saltire on his car. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/62/203204846_922076df91.jpg . So shouldn't his flag be changed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.17.76 (talk) 15:04, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

No. In Formula One, drivers from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are officially considered as "British". DH85868993 (talk) 03:26, 30 June 2011 (UTC)

DQ

The fn doesn't say (& I think it should) why Schumi was DQ. IIRC, it was for deliberately ramming Jacques...& I'm not saying it because I'm partisan, but because not mentioning it leaves the uninformed reader wondering "WTF?". TREKphiler ^{hit me ♠} 13:44, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Youngest world champions

Alonso's figures are given as 24 years 58 days when he won the 2005 Championship,and yet in the footnote it states he is the youngest double world champion at 24 years 58 days. Since this was the 2006 Championship,the age must surely be different. Lemon martini (talk) 10:14, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

The footnote has now been removed. DH85868993 (talk) 02:13, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

bold text

Is it really worth having the bold text on active drivers in this table? They can't exactly become younger can they? (as opposed to other tables where it is feasible that they will win more races/championships or whatever else) 212.20.248.35 (talk) 09:10, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I think it's there mainly for consistency with the other tables, and for example it also shows that 4 of the 5 youngest World Champions are currently racing, which some people might find interesting/meaningful. DH85868993 (talk) 12:52, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

I think the bold text throughout the article is irrelevant. It is also not up to date and it is not incorporated throughout every table. It would make more sense to not use the bold, and if someone wants to see who is currently competing they can click on the article for the FIA F1 championship for the current year. 49.2.10.223 (talk) 08:10, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

I have advertised this discussion at the F1 WikiProject to gather wider opinion. DH85868993 (talk) 00:48, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

I think that, for once, having extra notations within a table is worthwhile. Showing active drivers indicates that their positioning in these records are not finalised, and they can improve, rather than await someone else to knock them down. My opinion is that they should remain. QueenCake (talk) 15:30, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Agree with QueenCake Editadam 12:01, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

Should Alfa Romeo be considered a "current Manufacturer", and appropriately bolded?--IPBilly (talk) 17:54, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes, done. DH85868993 (talk) 11:29, 15 April 2019 (UTC)

Jenson Button

I have a fact that I'd like to add. With Hamilton and Button winning the Championship in 2008 & 2009, this is the first time in 40 years that successive championships have been won by British drivers (G. Hill 1968, Stewart 1969). Unfortunately, that's WP:OR, so does anybody have a source of a similar statement that we can cite? --Redrose64 (talk) 21:17, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Have been provided with a suitable link by User:Borisbadgerbear, and have decided that the best place for such a comment is not in this article, but in 2009 Formula One season#Report. Redrose64 (talk) 12:19, 19 October 2009 (UTC)

Lucky number 5

Has anyone ever thought (like myself) that the driver with number 5 on their car is quite often the winner. Permanent racing numbers introduced in 1974:

• 1974 Fittipaldi
• 1978 Andretti
• 1981 Piquet (Sen)
• 1983 Piquet (Sen)
• 1992 Mansell
• 1994 Schumacher, M
• 1996 Hill, D
• 2005 Alonso
• 2010 Vettel

9 out of 37 seasons; that's near enough a quarter. Alonso will have he number 5 on his car next year?! (90.198.53.250 (talk) 21:09, 27 November 2010 (UTC)).

I had noticed this actually, but it's not relevant enough for inclusion in the article. Bigdon128 (talk) 01:54, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

It's also not just a matter of 5 being a "lucky" number; it's a side-effect of the fact that up until 1996(?) the team of the World Champion exchanged numbers with the team of the previous year's World Champion, and that the championship often swaps from team A to team B, then back to team A. Consider that in 1981, Williams had the numbers 1 and 2 (following Jones' 1980 championship win) and Piquet won the championship driving Brabham number 5. So for 1982, Brabham got numbers 1 and 2 and Williams got 5 and 6. A Williams driver (Rosberg) won the championship again, so for 1983, Williams reclaimed 1 and 2, and Piquet got number 5 back, with which he won the championship again. Likewise for 1992 to 1996: the World Championship swapped from Williams to Benetton and back; so the number 5 did too. (Bigdon probably already knows this; this is mainly for the benefit of subsequent readers). DH85868993 (talk) 03:04, 20 July 2012 (UTC)

The last five seasons

Is it worth to mention that the last five drivers's championships have been won by five drivers competing for five different teams ? That shows that recently, no team has dominated the sport like it has been the case earlier in the decade (Ferrari) or in the previous decade (Williams). Maimai009 10:28, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

A note perhaps for the 2009, 2010 and 2011 season articles rathe than here? --Falcadore (talk) 02:02, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Too much British bias

It comes across as pathetic that every little aspect has to be linked to England in this article (blah blah team is from such and such a country, but really they are English, Mercedes engines are actually built by Ilmore which is British, etc etc). Write a separate article on British companies/teams which have gone bust and relied on foreign funding/management to flourish if you are so patriotic, but otherwise it just looks pathetic. As someone above pointed out about Andretti, it is a similar thing. It doesn't matter where someone was born, or where they live, or who their Great Grandfather's uncle's Mother in Law was from. All that matters for this specific article is where the team/driver has registered their nationality. Do we see the Swiss people coming in and making changes to the article stating oh Michael Schumacher lives in Switzerland or people from Monaco claiming nationality over the mass number of people who decide to be based there. Being based in England is just a reflection of how inadequate the English are at managing their own businesses and has no right being footnoted on every little thing... I am cleaning up this article and whoever the pro-British editors are have a problem they can make modificaitons to the specific articles relating to the teams/individuals which they claim have some degree of Britishness to them. 49.2.10.223 (talk) 07:50, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Highly WP:NPOV opinion there. Struggling to take it seriously. Ownership does not really have a bearing does it? It's certainly not comparable to taxation regimes in various countries (your Switzerland point). What is your actual point? What solution are you attempting to suggest? --Falcadore (talk) 02:00, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

My heart bleeds for your difficulty in taking it seriously. What was your actual point? Your taxation regime reference really had no relation to anything. My point was wherever a team or driver is registered is the only detail that should be listed on a compilation page such as this. There is no need to make reference to every degree of british influence in drivers/teams that have competed in F1. Many teams elect to be based in foreign countries. Reference to foreign influences can be listed on the individual team or driver wiki page, there is no need for it here. 49.2.10.223 (talk) 08:52, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Your taxation regime reference really had no relation to anything, it was your point by bringing up Schumacher living in Switzerland. I can't find any reference to what you are talking about in the article. --Falcadore (talk) 10:50, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

He/she removed the contentious text yesterday. DH85868993 (talk) 11:03, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Then what on earth are they complaining about? Jeez. --Falcadore (talk) 13:15, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Surprisingly, given your tone, I think you may have a point. After all, there are many instances, as you mention, of teams basing themselves or making use of design and manufacturing facilities in countries other than that of their origin or registration. Just this last season we had a supposedly Spanish team running Italian-designed cars from a base in Germany. The only American World Championship entry to score points with an American-made car was Eagle, the others either failed to score or ran cars built in the UK, but we still treat them as American. However, your tone sucks. There is a long-standing principle here that every editor should "assume good faith". Tarring the whole of Wikipedia, or at least this part of it, with your extreme inverted chauvinism on the basis of one or two minor edits isn't constructive and isn't likely to result in you being taken seriously. Pyrope 18:32, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

Never made any reference to why Schumacher moved to Switzerland, simply said that there was an unnecessary bias to link any aspect of Britishness to world championships, and if that precedent was followed for other nationalities we would have an article that is unnecessarily convoluted (eg footnoting Schumacher as being based in Switzerland despite being German, much in the same way that Mercedes and Renault were footnoted as being based in England). Perhaps if you read my original post where I stated "I am cleaning up this article" and then went back to read the changes you would have had a better perspective to engage in discussion. @Pyrope, if you want to refer to a penchant for keeping the article free of chauvinistic bias as extreme inverted chauvinism then good for you. But claiming that such a stance is tarring the whole of wikipedia??? You are agreeing that there was unnecessary bias and your comments can only be taken as someone trolling for the sake of trolling. Perhaps you should heed your own advice regarding the assumption of good faith. 49.2.10.223 (talk) 21:23, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

I always assume good faith unless provided with evidence to the contrary. You, on the other hand, provided quite a bit, and you continue to do so. Phrases such as "it come across as pathetic", "if you are so patriotic", "how inadequate the English are", "whoever the pro-British editors are have a problem", "my heart bleeds" and "trolling for the sake of trolling" are sarcastic, snide, hectoring and aggressive. A long way from the constructive attitude that makes a project like Wikipedia work. On the basis of a handful of footnotes (not main text, just footnotes; two of which didn't even concern the UK) you launched into a smear of the way this page has been constructed, and of the editors who did so. Your attacks on editors who, in all likelihood, just thought they were adding additional information are rude and uncalled for. As for accusations that in trying to give a balanced and reasonable answer to your bombastic hyperbole I am somehow "trolling for the sake of trolling", at this point I think I'll just shrug and see where the train wreck ends up. Pyrope 05:48, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

Good job :) You talk too much and digress from the point of concern which has already been rectified. 49.2.10.223 (talk) 06:43, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Formatting

I've made some formatting changes to the Champions table, as it wasn't sortable on the driver's name. Now all columns are sortable in a meaningful way. Darorcilmir (talk) 09:08, 4 August 2013 (UTC)

There is some inconsistent formatting throughout, some of the notes sections probably shouldn't have their own headings. --IPBilly (talk) 17:54, 14 April 2019 (UTC)

Should Palmer winning the Jim Clark Trophy in 1987 get a mention

I was wondering, should Jonathan Palmer winning the Jim Clark Trophy in 1987 get a mention on this page? He's often overlooked, but I reckon he was indeed a Formula One world drivers' champion of sorts. Lustigson (talk) 16:02, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

No. Quite simply because has nothing to do with being Formula One World Champion. The scope of the list is quite clear. NapHit (talk) 19:36, 16 June 2016 (UTC)

Error with the Bridgestone Tyres.

Whenever there's a mention of the Bridgestone tyres, there's a on the bottom of it. It doesn't show up when editing though. I'm not good at editing pages, so I thought I'd leave a note so someone more capable than me can fix it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by EvilBurp (talk • contribs) 00:03, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Fixed. It was an error in the {{Bridgestone}} template - that's why it didn't show up when editing this page. Thanks for alerting us to the issue. DH85868993 (talk) 01:09, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

Driver numbers

What is the relevance of the driver numbers relatively to drivers' titles? Or it is just trivia? Corvus tristis (talk) 09:05, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

I think it's just trivia. DH85868993 (talk) 09:09, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Then why we keep it? Corvus tristis (talk) 13:12, 11 November 2018 (UTC)

Is championship in "home car" really a thing?

Is championship in "home car" really a thing, or have we in wikipedia invented it's importance? --Falcadore (talk) 09:41, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

I don't recall seeing it anywhere else. DH85868993 (talk) 11:53, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

I'm thinking delete non-notable statistic. --Falcadore (talk) 09:18, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Those still alive

Now that we've lost Lauda, I would like to see some kind of text highlight to indicate which driver's champions are still alive. It would be much easier than clicking all their bio articles. Mac Dreamstate (talk) 22:11, 26 May 2019 (UTC)

Streak column

Is this really necessary? It seems like a complete waste of screen space - everyone reading this page can count to five. It looks awfully childish. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.255.38.126 (talk) 03:19, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

It has since been removed.
SSSB (talk) 12:11, 8 January 2020 (UTC)

Sorting

The age column needs sort values. Otherwise it can (depending on if you sorted other columns already, and if you sort that column first) show Hamilton as the youngest champion, not Vettel. I would do it myself, but I haven't the time now. I do plan on doing it latter, just leaving a note in case someone wants to beat me. (source: [1]).
SSSB (talk) 14:09, 7 December 2020 (UTC)

Renault Engine Wins is incorrect

Listed as 11 wins, they were the winning manufacturer in 1994 as well, it should be twelve. 212.129.79.17 (talk) 08:25, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

This article lists/counts winners of World *Drivers* Championships. The 1994 WDC was won by Michael Schumacher driving a Benetton-Ford. DH85868993 (talk)

Empty row for 2022 WDC

Is that required? If it is a custom here, excuse me. ShazamH (talk) 22:00, 12 December 2021 (UTC)

@ShazamH: It seems to be gone now. But to answer your question, no, it wasn't required. DH85868993 (talk) 01:12, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Yes, I removed it. It's silly and (frankly) daft to have any empty row for the next (at least 10, hopefully 11) months. SSSB (talk) 13:18, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, I didn't remove it. I removed it from the WCC list. SSSB (talk) 13:19, 13 December 2021 (UTC)

Red bull and honda

Not 2021 title winners 2A02:C7F:CA42:9100:8894:5B6F:F594:CBA4 (talk) 18:02, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Well, Verstappen won in a Red Bull-Honda, so they did win the drivers' title. SSSB (talk) 18:14, 17 December 2021 (UTC)

Percentages

Wanted to post here before making any changes in case I have it wrong. I believe some of the percentages of points scored are incorrect:

• 2021: Current percentage of 68.072 implies that 581 points were possible. With half points awarded at Spa and no fastest lap, only 567.5 were possible. The percentage should therefore be 69.692.
• 2020: Current percentage of 83.413 is based on Hamilton competing in only 16 of the 17 races, however the possible achievable points for the season does not change if a driver misses a race. The percentages of the 1950s aren't influenced by drivers not taking part in the Indy 500, so the 2020 percentage should be 78.507.
• 1991: Current percentage of 56.875 implies that 168.79 points were possible (169 rounded), while the actual possible number of points was 155. Percentage should be 61.935.

– Kytabu 10:04, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Agreed on all counts. I've updated the article accordingly. DH85868993 (talk) 21:38, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2022

The Constructors and engine manufacturers entries for 2021 are incorrect and appear to be the subject of frequent vandalism. Mercedes won the constructors/engine manufacturer's championship, not Redbull/Honda. This needs to be rectified and protected from vandalism. Slidewielder (talk) 00:55, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

No it is correct, this is the Driver's Champions list and Verstappen drove for Red Bull in 2021, not Mercedes. --TylerBurden (talk) 01:01, 17 March 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 March 2022

Change "2021 Max Verstappen" to "2021 Max Verstappen* 222.154.224.43 (talk) 23:05, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: Despite the controversy, he's the official winner. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:12, 21 March 2022 (UTC)

Red Bull have entered an Accepted Breach Agreement (ABA) with the FIA following a breach of the 2021 Financial Regulations

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-enter-agreement-with-fia-over-breach-of-2021-financial-regulations.2ccVAHxnUpChqHSIDGMXmg.html Jonathan8355 (talk) 20:45, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

It is possible to add this footnote, regarding the breach of financial regulations for year 2021. Jonathan8355 (talk) 20:46, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

The source does not even suggest it is relevant. Adding this here would there be both WP:UNDUE and non-neutral. SSSB (talk) 22:19, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

How can I start a new page for this news which is very important to the history of the sport. Jonathan8355 (talk) 01:43, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

You follow the instructions at Help:Your first article. But an article isn't justified. A handful of sentences at 2021 Formula One World Championship is sufficient. SSSB (talk) 09:47, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 October 2022

Please add footnote on 2021 World Champion "Red Bull have entered an Accepted Breach Agreement (ABA) with the FIA following a breach of the 2021 Financial Regulations" source:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/article.red-bull-enter-agreement-with-fia-over-breach-of-2021-financial-regulations.2ccVAHxnUpChqHSIDGMXmg.html Jonathan8355 (talk) 20:55, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Not unless you can prove it's relevance? Adding this here would there be both WP:UNDUE and non-neutral without direct relevance. SSSB (talk) 22:15, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

Lewis Won title 6 times in a row

It says Schumacher holds that record with 5 in a row 2600:1700:3691:9890:6508:FBB1:D83B:2B (talk) 13:29, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Rosberg won in 2016, so he didn't win six in a row. NapHit (talk) 14:04, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

Red Bull won only 5 WCCs

In 2021 WCC was won by Mercedes, not Red Bull Ilya 88 f1 (talk) 06:58, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

That table shows the number of drivers's championships won by each constructor. The 2021 Drivers's championshop was won by a Red Bull driver (Verstappen) bringing their total to 6 Drivers's championships SSSB (talk) 09:31, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

2021 was won by mercedes 2A00:23C5:7B11:3A01:14EB:3AC4:ED55:6982 (talk) 13:40, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Some driver's percentages of maximum available points incorrect

I think the following points percentages on the driver table are wrong due to the incorrect maximum points available being used.

Ascari 1953 (maximum available points should be 81 not 80.5 so % in brackets should be 57.407%)

Lauda 1975 (maximum available points should be based on 13 not 14 races since two of the races were allocated half points.  % points in brackets should be 55.128%)

Lauda 1984 (maximum available points should be based on 15.5 not 16 races since one of the races was allocated half points.  % points in brackets should be 51.613%)

Schumacher 1995 (maximum available points should be based on 17 not 16 races?  % points should be 60.000%)

Button 2009 (maximum available points should be based on 16.5 not 17 races since one of the races was allocated half points.  % points should be 57.576%)

It is interesting to note that the 69.692% for Verstappen in 2021 correctly uses 21.5 races to calculate the maximum available points since one race was allocated half points. The same approach should therefore be used in the corrections mentioned. 2A00:23C4:5A90:B301:CD00:9F9C:398B:A4E0 (talk) 08:55, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

Y I agree on all counts and have made the changes. Thanks for spotting the errors. DH85868993 (talk) 09:14, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

There actually is a template that can generate the percentages for us.Tvx1 11:04, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

South-African flag issue

In the article's first and second tables, The flag before Jody Scheckter's name is the discontinued flag of apartheid era South-Africa. However, in the third table the current South-African flag is shown. I think WP should be consistent here.
I didn't want to edit it myself because I have no opinion/preference either way, since I'm not a big F1 fan. So I'm leaving the info here for F1 fans to edit. (or even leaving it as is)
Dutchy45 (talk) 06:42, 4 September 2023 (UTC)

The reasoning behind this is that we should use the flag of apartheid era South-Africa to be historically accurate, as Scheckter used this flag. We use the current South African flag in the table below because it represents the entire history of Formula One, and we choose the current flag. I don't mind which flag we use, but I think there is a stronger case for the old flag for three main reasons:

Firstly, the old flag is used for most of time that this article covers (44 years of the old flag, 1950-1994, the new flag will be 44 years old in 2038. Secondly, every South African world champion raced under the old flag. Thirdly, every South Africa driver actually raced under the old flag. Any other thoughts. SSSB (talk) 17:35, 5 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 September 2023

Footnotes:

2021 - win assisted by FIA human error 2022 - win assisted by team breach of cost cap regulations 2023 - win assisted from continued benefits from cost cap regulations breaches, and flexi wing breach of FIA technical regulations. 2A02:C7C:6C41:7E00:1468:354D:434A:2EF7 (talk) 10:00, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. — Paper9oll (🔔 • 📝) 10:05, 20 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 October 2023

Add Max Verstappen 2023 Irissquiris (talk) 21:27, 7 October 2023 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Pinchme123 (talk) 03:32, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

 Done Some common sense can prevail. Maranello10 (talk) 04:42, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

(Intermediate comment altered (further update: intermediate comment restored)). What common sense would that be? The edit request function is to ask volunteers to add information to a page. Those volunteers very likely won't have knowledge of the specific page; I have zero knowledge about Formula One, how the World drivers' Champion is determined, or who Max Verstappen is (none of which would be 'common knowledge'). But what I do know is that the edit request wizard specifically tells submitters to include "References supporting the possible change (format using the 'cite' button)". And editors familiar enough with Wikipedia to not need the wizard already know that requests to add content are successful when they are accompanied by sources. --Pinchme123 (talk) 14:30, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't think Maranello10 was critising your response. I don't understand the commonsense that Maranello10 was refering to was either. The information was added because it can be sourced, even if Irissquiris didn't provide any (again, not a critism of you, it was Irissquiris's responsibility to provide sources, not yours. SSSB (talk) 14:44, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Verstappen 2023

Verstappen won the title with six races to go before the end of the championship. (Qatar (today), US, Mexico City, Sao Paulo, Las Vegas and the UAE). But the table shows 5. 212.164.64.246 (talk) 06:49, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

I changed it to rounds remaining to remove the ambiguity. The reason 5 was put was because putting six would suggest that he won the title after the Japanese Grand Prix, whch he didn't/ SSSB (talk) 06:58, 8 October 2023 (UTC)

Following the same logic, I've changed "Race X of Y" to "Round X of Y" in the "Clinched" column. DH85868993 (talk) 12:19, 9 October 2023 (UTC)