Talk:Julius Evola

Trying to get infobox to work?

I'm trying to embed Infobox philosopher onto infobox spy, is this possible?

If not how can I embed them both on to infobox person? — Preceding unsigned comment added by AverroesII (talk • contribs) 10:50, 10 December 2021 (UTC)

1937-1938 "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" by J. Evola in Italian - at least 5 Editions (See WorldCat link below)

WorldCat: https://www.worldcat.org/title/protocolli-dei-savi-anziani-di-sion-versione-italiana-con-appendice-e-introduzione/oclc/234090785/editions?referer=di&editionsView=true — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.167.126.25 (talk) 23:34, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

Hardliners

Many Communist hardliners have become Eastern Orthodox hardliners after the fall of the Communist regimes. So, this is by no means unusual, and there is no reason to suspect that Dugin would be insincere in respect to his own faith. tgeorgescu (talk) 20:30, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Rewriting of June-August 2022

A major rewriting of this article since June, particularly the top, appears to have removed references to more than a dozen sources and removed substantial information. WP:PRESERVE says we should respect "a succession of editors' efforts" and provide clear reasoning for deletions of reliably sourced content, but reasons have not been given on the talk page or edit summaries for most of the deletions. I think some of the deleted information should be restored, per WP:PRESERVE and WP:WEIGHT, if it was a faithful representation of third-party WP:BESTSOURCES. Llll5032 (talk) 21:43, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Because the article was not written in a neutral point of view and suffered many issues which were not confined to its prose. Many, many of the sources provided fictitious or outright slanderous statements on Evola's works and philosophy - one of which even stated that he advocated bestiality! The article degraded rapidly in the past couple of years and placed far too much emphasis on his post-mortem influence with quasi-fascist movements. I am being lambasted for not preserving falsehoods and should be restricted from improving the article? It did nothing to summarise Evola's core philosophy, nor recount his genuine contribution to the fields of esotericism or mysticism . I took an extended break from improving the article because I am still yet to research more - I cannot continue without being supplied with the proper knowledge. There is more yet to come from me, and I would hate for my efforts to be needlessly hindered. And contentious according to who? Just one editor who has been deleting this over the weeks. Evola was not an anti-fascist and his links to the movement, witting or otherwise, are not neglected in this article. ♦ jaguar 22:11, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

The proper procedure would have been to take each fictitious or outright slanderous source to WP:RSN. tgeorgescu (talk) 22:23, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

I think I should have, though I found it much easier to perform a rewrite. My editing style is often performed with a bludgeon, much to people's chagrin. ♦ jaguar 22:25, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Anyway, the gist is that:

His works are mostly seen as the self-indulgent ramblings of a failed dilettante. Grayfell (talk) 06:33, 16 September 2018 (UTC)

He was catering at the cultic millieu, dabblers in occultism loved his books. tgeorgescu (talk) 22:45, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Often per WP:DUE we describe a disagreement between reliable sources without deleting them. Jaguar, did the sources you termed fictitious or outright slanderous conflict with the assessments of any other third-party reliable sources? Were there other reasons to decide they were unreliable? Llll5032 (talk) 23:06, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Editors can improve an article based on WP:BESTSOURCES and WP:STEWARDSHIP at any time. I don't think anyone lambasted or needlessly hindered. We are supposed to edit by WP:CONSENSUS and improve the article based on the highest quality WP:INDY sources, for "non-promotional articles that fairly portray the subject, without undue attention to the subject's own views". Llll5032 (talk) 22:47, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

My wishes for this article are: Evola has to be described as a kook and as antisemitic, for the rest I don't care enough about Evola to have a dog in this fight. tgeorgescu (talk) 23:21, 30 August 2022 (UTC)

Some of the edits appear to have deleted or downplayed[1][2][3] references to antisemitism or connections to Nazis. There may be more that I missed. Llll5032 (talk) 00:04, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

I edited the "Views on Jews" section, attempting to match the tone and facts in the cited sources, and re-labeled its sub-heading "Antisemitism". Please look. Llll5032 (talk) 04:00, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

I added citation-needed tags to the fourth paragraph because I can't find where several claims in it are cited in the rest of the article. Llll5032 (talk) 03:19, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Here again perfect display of the destroy anything instructional pack attacks this article has to endure since years. Always lead by editors who know very well the wikipedia procedures, not much about Evola, and who's only goal is to openly discredit, disparage and vilify. 2A01:CB01:2002:BF63:2C48:E3AA:E294:E3E1 (talk) 07:28, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

Why did you do that? Citations are redundant in the lead per WP:LEADCITE. This is proof that you haven't read the article as it's already mentioned in the body. Evola was a consistent critic of Mussolini and was ostracised in Fascist Italy - that much is made clear even in the most rudimentary academic sources. He was mainly apolitical and his relationship with fascism is complicated. My rewrite is merely a quarter complete - all I ask for is patience. ♦ jaguar 09:52, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

WP:LEADCITE: "The lead must conform to verifiability, biographies of living persons, and other policies. The verifiability policy advises that material that is challenged or likely to be challenged, and direct quotations, should be supported by an inline citation." Any claims made clear even in the most rudimentary academic sources should be easy to cite. Also, have you read WP:FOC, WP:3RR, and WP:OWN? Llll5032 (talk) 13:23, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

I have not edit warred nor professed ownership. ♦ jaguar 14:52, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

This looks like three reverts [4][5][6] in 12 hours. The right procedure would be compromise edits (WP:BRB), tags, or discussions instead. Llll5032 (talk) 15:11, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

You've just turned the article to shit and have undone most of my rewrite. You've demonstrated that you do not understand Evola nor good writing by re-adding erroneous statements and over-emphasis on post-mortem influence with fringe movements, and by inserting American gossip as credible sources, in the lead section no less. I will not debate, discuss or humour these changes. I suspect that you thought I was whitewashing the article and wished to revert it back to a 'safe narrative' in a typical Wiki drone-like fashion. I'm not going to justify myself, for this discussion is evidence that any reason phases through you. My intention is to bring this article to FA - and it will be achieved through writing this article in a neutral point of view, with credible academic sources. ♦ jaguar 12:04, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

The edits to the top (which were made by another editor, not me) were better sourced than what was replaced. Most of your rewriting of the article has not been undone. If we focus on content and follow WP:BESTSOURCES we will be able to bring the article to FA. Llll5032 (talk) 14:38, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

I restored more information and sources that had been deleted recently, and added additional information from high quality sources. Because Evola is a controversial subject, some of the sources may be in disagreement; if so, we can follow the WP:VOICE and WP:PRESERVE guidelines. Llll5032 (talk) 21:58, 5 September 2022 (UTC)

I WP:BOLDly added two summary sentences in the first and third paragraphs. They are are meant to follow MOS:LEADREL ("reflect its relative importance to the subject, according to published reliable sources") and cite WP:BESTSOURCES. I would welcome more editing to improve the emphases and style. Llll5032 (talk) 21:47, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

I also WP:BOLDly added some cited third-party interpretation to the third paragraph, per WP:INDY. Llll5032 (talk) 20:23, 13 November 2022 (UTC)

Changed portrait

The portrait had a white line drawn over/around his left eye (stage left, right side of photograph), possibly due to some kind of physical degradation of the photograph. It made me wonder if he had some deformity around that part of his face, until I compared with other photos and looked more closely. It would be good to have a less close-up image than this new one, but not at the cost of that white line over the eye, I don't think. Thiagovscoelho (talk) 17:55, 18 August 2023 (UTC)

I think the old picture was better, as there Evola's face is visible in its totality. In the one you changed it to, the top of his head is out of the frame. I changed it back. Schenkstroop (talk) 17:22, 19 August 2023 (UTC)