Talk:John Vorster

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Comment[edit]

To start by saying Vorster supported the Nazi regime is not appropriate and immediately creates a wrong impression of the man. The context of his supporting the Nazi regime also needs to be looked at. He supported the Nazi regime because they were in a war against Britain, not because of their policies. The reason for this was because the British killed 25 000 Afrikaner women and children during the Boer War (1899 - 1902). Vorster therefore supported Germany, not necessarily Hitler. A credible source that can be cited for this information, and most of Afrikaner history in general is: The Afrikaners (Hermann Gilliomee, 2003). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.84.73.120 (talk) 16:27, 28 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

This is one of the root causes of Afrikaans nationalism mixed with anti-British feeling and the historic white racism in South Africa. Vorster would associated himself with anti-Semites, yet the NP denounced anti-Semitism and Nazism in 1945 and South Africa had diplomatic relations with the state of Israel. It is thought the NP had anti-Catholic sentiment (also this was abandoned in 1945) by a few hyper-Calvinists in South Africa whom brought the Immorality acts based on fundamentalist Christian morals as well to keep the country's races apart. The Nationalist Party under Vorster was rifen with corruption and fraud, plus the 1961 independence act to ended ties with the British commonwealth has nearly ended 50 years of British-Afrikaaner peace, but the NP insisted the only thing that matter is "black" skin, not whites in conflict with one another. + 71.102.7.77 (talk) 06:27, 14 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I seem to recall reading in David Harrison's book "The White Tribe of Africa" a quotation of an interview the author conducted with Vorster. Vorster remarked that he was detained in the Koffiefontein detention centre during the Second World War by the Smuts government not because he was pro-Nazi, but because he was anti-British. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.179.48.145 (talk) 09:11, 23 May 2008 (UTC)[reply]

His legacy of former support of Nazism/Fascism and apartheid seem to connect the two evil ideologies together: Vorster held a belief in a race or ethnicity should dominate or oppress others. In WWI, many anti-British Afrikaaners, due to the British takeover of the Boar Republics in the 1890's developed an interest in radical right-wing European culture such as German nationalism. Vorster was said to took sympathy of Hitler's ideas of white Nordic domination of other races in the world. Same is true with the Ku Klux Klan in the USA was thought to inspired both the Nazis and Apartheid (and are sympathetic towards each other) in racial segregatory laws and anti-semitic rhetoric, and Vorster shown himself to be a diehard racist. + 71.102.7.77 (talk) 06:20, 14 January 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Vorster was willing to take up arms against his country, joining an illegal organisation (Ossewabrandwag) to wage war on his own country and murder (yes, murder) political opponents to *aid and assist the nazi war effort*. If fighting for the nazi's does not make one a nazi supporter, no one was ever a nazi supporter. Wikipedia's own article on the OB states: "Alexandre Kum'a Ndumbe III however shows, that OB was "based on the Führer-principle, fighting against the Empire, the capitalists, the communists, the Jews, the party and the system of parliamentarism ... on the base of national-socialism", according to a German secret source dated Jan. 18, 1944[4]" 82.176.204.198 (talk) 13:46, 7 May 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The reference to "Vorster's past as a draft-dodger and Nazi sympathizer" can only be described as POV - it isn't in any way balanced, or even accurate.119.224.91.84 (talk) 04:07, 11 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Image licensing?[edit]

The "Permission" field of the box for the main photo used on this page simply says "See below", but does not give any details below, or anywhere else. I don't know anything about SA copyright law, but surely this isn't good enough? 86.136.250.66 (talk) 18:15, 10 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Misleading[edit]

The statement "the complete abolishment of non-white political representation, " is misleading and then even contradicted by what it links to. --41.150.234.176 (talk) 11:01, 9 September 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Dutch vs. Afrikaans[edit]

I'm surprised to see the pronunciation of Vorster's name described as 'Dutch', since the Dutch language is no longer used in South Africa. The indicated pronunciation - especially of the 'o' in 'Johannes' and the 'v' in 'Vorster' - is quite clearly Afrikaans (Vorster's mother tongue) and not Dutch - the two languages have been quite distinct since the nineteenth century. Worse, I believe Afrikaans-speakers consider the use of 'Dutch' to describe their language as a demeaning hangover from British colonial rule, especially the days when children 'caught' speaking it at school were forced to wear a sign reading (in English) 'I'm a donkey, I spoke Dutch'. Since there's no reason to call the language 'Dutch' in modern contexts, I suspect this is a common error throughout Wikipedia. Perhaps some general Wikipedia editor could use an internal search function to track down instances of it - as well as ones of Belgian Dutch being referred to as 'Flemish', as though that were a different language. To be quite clear: the same Dutch language is used in Holland and Belgium, with minor regional variations, but not in South Africa, where it evolved long ago into Afrikaans.92.111.250.34 (talk) 13:23, 9 April 2015 (UTC)[reply]

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Place of birth[edit]

The section Early life states that "Vorster was born in 1915 Jamestown, Western Cape, Union of South Africa, the fifteenth child of a successful sheep farmer." but the sidebar differs in stating "Born: Balthazar Johannes Vorster, 13 December 1915, Uitenhage, Cape Province"

Further, the citation to the Early life reference quoted above does not agree with the text. The citation states: "Born in Uitenhage on 13 December 1915, the thirteenth of 14 children, Vorster was the son of Willem Carel and Elizabeth Vorster, nee Wagenaar." SA History - Citation 1

This will need original research or further citation for accuracy.

Annesville (talk) 20:42, 7 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Article title B .J. Vorster or John Vorster?[edit]

In terms of WP:COMMONNAME should the article title be John Vorster (as it is now), or B.J. Vorster? I get the impression that B.J. Vorster was used in South Africa, and John Vorster overseas, but I could be wrong, and it was before my time. Park3r (talk) 08:01, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

He was prime minister during my childhood, and I always remember him being referred to as B.J. Vorster, not John Vorster. Wayne Jayes (talk) 16:26, 13 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
The Johannesburg police station was called John Vorster Square, and there are roads call(ed) John Vorster Drive. I would tend to lean towards your position though.Park3r (talk) 20:38, 14 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
According to this source [1] he deliberately chose to be known as "John" some time in the late 70sPark3r (talk) 10:04, 18 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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