Talk:Guy Standing (economist)

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Guy Standing (economist) article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1: 1 month

This article has been mentioned by multiple media organizations:

"#188 Into the Depths". Reply All. 9 June 2022.
Postma, Jan (27 July 2022). "Shitposten" (in Dutch). De Groene Amsterdammer.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Economics Low‑importance

	Business and economics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Economics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Economics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.EconomicsWikipedia:WikiProject EconomicsTemplate:WikiProject EconomicsEconomics articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Organized Labour Low‑importance

	Organized Labour portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Organized Labour, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Organized Labour on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Organized LabourWikipedia:WikiProject Organized LabourTemplate:WikiProject Organized Labourorganized labour articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Politics Low‑importance

	Politics portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Sociology Low‑importance

	Society portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Sociology, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of sociology on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SociologyWikipedia:WikiProject SociologyTemplate:WikiProject Sociologysociology articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Philosophy Low‑importance

	Philosophy portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

International development Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject International development, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of international development, including such areas as appropriate technology, microfinance and social issues, on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.International developmentWikipedia:WikiProject International developmentTemplate:WikiProject International developmentInternational development articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

United Kingdom Low‑importance

	United Kingdom portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject United Kingdom, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the United Kingdom on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.United KingdomWikipedia:WikiProject United KingdomTemplate:WikiProject United KingdomUnited Kingdom articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Biography: Science and Academia

	Biography portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
	This article is supported by the science and academia work group (assessed as Low-importance).
	This article has been marked as needing immediate attention.

Universal Basic Income (inactive)

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Universal Basic Income, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Universal Basic IncomeWikipedia:WikiProject Universal Basic IncomeTemplate:WikiProject Basic IncomeUniversal Basic Income articles

Daily pageviews of this article

A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at pageviews.wmcloud.org

Picture[edit]

As a compromise why can't we have the old picture of Guy Standing sitting, but keep the existing caption? I don't see the harm in that? 92.26.50.0 (talk) 13:07, 25 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, or no caption. The "sitting" caption pushed the joke too hard but just the photo of him sitting is harmless. It's funnier to me without stressing "sitting" in the caption anyway, which I think is the pain point. --occono (talk) 20:25, 12 March 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah maybe just RV the crop to show him siting as well :P — Berrely • ^Talk∕_Contribs 15:45, 11 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed. The only crop I would be fine with would be cutting off part of the right side to center him. Wilh3lm^{Go here to trout me if I do a stupid} 15:24, 21 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Yes Leijurv (talk) 02:51, 2 July 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Concurred Greenbowser (talk) 22:59, 7 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support. --Sokuseno (talk) 17:25, 13 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Quadruple supported --Twozerooz (talk) 16:47, 30 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I like that Louponius (talk) 10:33, 29 September 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Support. It keeps the inherent funniness of the image without forcing any jokes in the article. - Adrmcr (talk) 06:20, 30 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

This is definitely the way to go!

Agreed, this is the best of all worlds. There is inherent humor in it, but the formal tone of the article is not breached Sgrandpre (talk) 22:39, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

i love unnessesaraly funny wikipedia pages (sorry if i misspelled anything) Somecoolguy12345 (talk) 00:26, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

i'm going to appreciate somebody Somecoolguy12345 (talk) 15:39, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Support. No need to do more work when irony can do the rest. I'll make a special crop for English Wikipedia, in case other language Wikipedias want to choose to use the current cropped version. aaronneallucas (talk) 03:35, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Augwik (talk) 14:11, 20 March 2022 (UTC) Maybe a compromise could be putting the picture further down the page, and using a normal "portrait" picture for the beginning? Could be a stupid idea, I'm new to Wikipedia. --2A02:A450:8159:1:3864:5280:C1BC:CBC4 (talk) 10:42, 12 August 2021 (UTC)[reply]

There is now media coverage about this very controversy on the Podcast Reply All, which is worthy if its own subsection in the article. Why not put the photo in question there? Listen here: https://gimletmedia.com/shows/reply-all/wbhx32g/188-into-the-depths Morganfitzp (talk) 15:07, 9 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, excellent piece by Reply All about the article, and a nice interview with Guy Standing himself! Unfortunately, I can't seem to track down any articles about this specific podcast episode. Can anyone find sources that make a mention of the show? Thanks! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 02:40, 12 June 2022 (UTC)[reply]

I found this source from the Dutch news magazine De Groene Amsterdammer about the Reply All interview with Standing. I might try drafting something up to add to the article. ––FormalDude talk 04:57, 24 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for sharing! The Google Translate of the article into English is good enough to understand most of it hehe. Yeah, would be cool to be able to make a mention in the Wikipedia article somehow. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 08:13, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Bump to prevent archival (given the edit warring over this in the history). * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 19:55, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Popping in to say I support aaroneallucas' proposal. Even ignoring the pun, it feels more natural than the tighter crop. Madeline (part of me) 19:57, 6 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In all other articles, we crop to the bust as being the most helpful image for identifying the subject. Including his lower torso and legs adds no value to the article except as a navel-gazing in-joke. czar 11:47, 17 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Here we go again, now that @Strugglehouse has removed it... It doesn't detract from the article, and it's just a subtle little piece of humor. I don't see the harm in including it. It's not like it's being specifically pointed out. ~~Also I seriously don't want to have to update the entry on WP:LEW again.~~ In addition, there is already strong support for the less cropped version, as discussed above. Wilh3lm^Talk 22:55, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Wilhelm von Hindenburger Don't want to start an edit war. All I did was change the image and reordered the caption. I've seen the consensus to remove "sitting" - we don't need to start that again. I think the cropped image looks better and images like that are used in many articles. Focuses more on the subject rather than stuff around him. Strugglehouse (talk) 23:03, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Missing how that entitles you to ignore the consensus on this very talk page. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 23:27, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Trainsandotherthings Can't see much consensus for it other than "Agreed" or "Support". Arguments with WP:NOREASON are not valid arguments. Strugglehouse (talk) 23:40, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And your only argument is "I like it". How does that entitle you to disregard an entire discussion, exactly? Considering the multiple warnings on your talk page about BLP editing, you really need to be more careful about respecting policy and consensus. You have zero right to overrule an entire discussion just because you disagree. If you think the discussion was mistaken, you can start an RfC. Also, nowhere in policy does it say that "arguments with noreason are not valid arguments". ATAIDD is an essay, and more importantly we are not at AfD. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 23:45, 16 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not trying to "overrule an entire discussion just because you disagree". I'm sharing my opinion, which is that Wikipedia can have mild humor Language Boi (talk) 18:14, 21 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Logged into the wrong account? Trainsandotherthings (talk) 01:50, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Trainsandotherthings Nope, I don't know who that is or why they replied. I'd completely forgotten about this discussion to be honest. Leaving the image as is is fine. Strugglehouse (talk) 06:40, 22 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

oh sorry

wrong page

lmfao Language Boi (talk) 22:57, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This request for help from administrators has been answered. If you need more help or have additional questions, please reapply the {{admin help}} template, or contact the responding user(s) directly on their own user talk page.

I'm Guy Standing's wife. Could we change the picture, please (always hated it and it would remove the Guy Standing sitting joke, which surely has run its course)? I've found a suitable free to use pic at https://www.publicspace.org/authors/-/author/guy-standi-1 User:Geneva2009.

This does not require admin help. You can upload a picture at the WP:file upload wizard, as long as you provide appropriate copyright information. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:35, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Geneva2009: Also, please sign your talk page comments with four tildes: ~~~~. I will provide you additional information on your own talk page. - UtherSRG (talk) 16:36, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

New book (2022)[edit]

can't integrate his new book into the bibliography, because of extended protection, therefore here: The Blue Commons: Rescuing the Economy of the Sea (Pelican Books, 7/2022) Ai24 (talk) 10:06, 26 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Added! VirreFriberg (talk) 20:56, 2 October 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 January 2023[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change the caption under the first image to "Guy Standing sitting". Thanks :) 37.162.22.244 (talk) 20:56, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: No thanks Cannolis (talk) 21:15, 21 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There has been a loooooooong edit war about this that even appeared on Wikipedia:Lamest Edit Wars. You can find earlier parts of it on this talk page's archive. It eventually came to the solution of an image where you can see that he's sitting, but the caption doesn't specifically point it out. Let's leave it like that and not restart this argument. Wilh3lm^Talk 19:08, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Indeed, it took extensive debate just to get a consensus to even have a caption and to revert the crop back to the original photo. Don't push it, lest you provoke the fun police again. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 19:11, 25 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not to open a can of worms, but the current caption could be confusing to non-native English speakers ... hmm. Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 21:01, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Perhaps include the first name so we know that Standing is a name and not a verb? (It would still be capitalized despite not being at the start, which implies that Standing is not being used as a verb.) Wilh3lm^Talk 14:38, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If you mean changing "Standing in 2012" to "Guy Standing in 2012", then I would support that. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 15:18, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I support that change as well. Seems like a non-controversial improvement to me. Trainsandotherthings (talk) 15:33, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that would fix the issue! Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 18:06, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 18:07, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 April 2023[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I request that the caption for the photograph be changed from "Standing in 2012" to "Guy Standing sitting at the Bien Congress in 2012". 2001:569:FC73:F500:5490:8024:AB7A:4716 (talk) 02:58, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{Edit extended-protected}} template. Specifically stating that he's sitting is a pushing it a bit too far. Tollens (talk) 03:30, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not this again... This has been the subject of considerable discussion and a very lame edit war. The inclusion of "sitting" is too much, but I'm okay with including "at the BIEN Congress". Wilh3lm^Talk 15:12, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That's fair - I've added it in since I doubt there's any objection. Tollens (talk) 19:32, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A bit late to this, but I'd argue that there's very little to be gained by mentioning the location – the context is invisible in the image (it's just a wood-panelled room), and the fact that he was at the congress is of no relevance to the article. — RAVENPVFF · talk · 23:22, 8 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's never too late! I'd tend to disagree that simply because the context cannot be inferred from the content of the photo, the context is not important, as well as with the suggestion that he being at the congress is irrelevant. MOS:CAPCONTEXT suggests that context in the caption is especially important when you cannot see the context within the image - the fact that he was at the congress, in my mind, does say at least something about him. For example, the article states in the lead: Guy Standing is ... a co-founder of the Basic Income Earth Network (BIEN). BIEN was founded in 1986, according to its article - his presence at the congress in 2012, 26 years after BIEN's founding, indicates that he continues to be an active member of the organization, which is never actually stated in the article's prose. I feel that almost any context that could be provided (within reason, obviously) that is not clear from the content of the image could be useful to a reader - so long as there's at least a marginal benefit and the addition doesn't harm the article, I don't see an issue. Tollens (talk) 00:47, 9 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 27 April 2023[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

<copy-paste of article removed> 24.116.55.29 (talk) 03:27, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 03:39, 27 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 September 2023[edit]

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Bring back guy standing sitting🙏🙏 71.16.56.202 (talk) 15:21, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 15:32, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This dispute over "Guy Standing sitting" is on Wikipedia's list of lamest edit wars. Let's not revive this dispute. Wilh3lm^Talk 23:49, 16 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Did you have to bluelock this article just because of Dr. Standing's name?[edit]

That's crazy ERBuermann (talk) 15:33, 17 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Missing book[edit]

Plunder of the Commons: A Manifesto for Sharing Public Wealth (Pelican Books, 2019).[1](Geneva2009 (talk) 15:53, 19 October 2023 (UTC))[reply]

New picture[edit]

Please can we change the picture of 'Guy Standing (sitting)' to this one, uploaded to Wiki Commons: {{subst:Please link images|File:Guy Standing at Occupy Washington DC 2011.jpg}} Geneva2009 (talk) 13:23, 20 October 2023 (UTC) And then can we end extended protection so the text can be edited directly (Geneva2009 (talk) 13:23, 20 October 2023 (UTC))[reply]

I support this, if only because it should (hopefully) get people to stop trying to revive the "sitting" thing. Wilh3lm^Talk 16:56, 20 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]

IMO that picture fails MOS:IMAGELEAD for having another person right behind him, and MOS:IMAGEQUALITY for being cluttered, especially by the sign he's holding. PhotogenicScientist (talk) 17:02, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]