Talk:God of War (franchise)

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Lead is overlong

Yes, I know this passed FA, but I've written and reviewed enough FAs to know better than anyone that FA doesn't mean perfect. A sampling of the problems:

• God of War is an action-adventure, hack and slash, mythology-based video game series, originally created by... information overload in the first sentence (and that isn't even the end of the sentence). A single genre is sufficient for the lead, and anyway the stuff about it being based on mythology is covered later. (It's also not grammatically correct: it should be action-adventure hack-and-slash mythology-based video game series originally created by..., with hyphens and no commas.

Hyphen issue aside, that sentence gives everything a reader needs to know without getting into the plot.

The purpose of the first sentence of the lead is not to "give everything a reader needs to know". It's to define in the most basic terms the subject of the article. The MoS for games (MOS:VG) says Avoid bloat in the first sentence. Restrict it to the most important aspects of the topic, and I think this is a pretty blatant case of bloat. Also, this isn't video games, but the MoS for film actually specifies only one genre in the lead sentence specifically to fight this kind of thing. Popcornduff (talk) 06:41, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

• The level of plot detail given in the first paragraph is crazy. It's almost 200 words, which is the word limit for entire TV episode plot summaries. Readers simply don't need this level of detail in the lead. A sentence or two would suffice, even in an article covering a franchise.

Sorry to say, but a sentence or two would not suffice. Regardless, some trimming has been done.

• There's too much attention given to minor instalments and spin-offs. We mention comics three times, for example: such as a comic book series—God of War (2010–11) .. a web-based graphic novel—Rise of the Warrior (2012–13)—and a digital comic—God of War #0 (2018). As these don't seem like major releases (and none have their own independent article) are these really worth mentioning? No. They can simply be covered as "comics". Likewise, is it really worth mentioning the titles of both God of War novelisations? No.

It's three different types of comics, and one (the first one) does have its own article. Regardless, have compromised.

On a lower level, there are lots of unnecessary words:

• originally created by David Jaffe... was it created twice?

Originally means first, and Jaffe is not there anymore.

But things are only created once, so saying "originally created" is tautological. Was it created a second time? Whether Jaffe is still there is immaterial and "first created" doesn't contain that information anyway. Popcornduff (talk) 06:41, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

• The series' story centers around its playable character, Kratos... You don't need to say "The series' story" - we know you don't mean something else's story. We also don't need to be told that the story "centers around" the player character - that's almost always the case. (And "centers around" is an oxymoron - you mean "centers on"). In fact, you don't need to say "the story" at all: "The player character, Kratos, is a Spartan warrior who swears..." does the job.

One of the comic series had nothing to do with Kratos, and the text-based game was about his son. That was the reason for "The series' story", referring to the main story of the series. This basically got covered in a trim.

• for being the best action games for the PlayStation brand, and some of the best action games of all time if they're praised as some of the best action games of all time, then that includes "the best action games for the PlayStation brand" as a subcategory. You don't need to say both.

Disagree, but will compromise.

• Merchandise promoting the series has also been produced, including artwork, clothing -> Merchandise includes artwork, clothing...

That's terrible flow coming off of the previous sentence.

Adding redundant words to a sentence never improves "flow" - it's indicative of larger problems. Merchandise is always partly promotional, so adding this information is redundant. Likewise, there is no need to state that merchandise "has been produced"; we wouldn't be writing about imaginary merchandise. Popcornduff (talk) 06:41, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

I could go on. It needs a major haircut. Sorry to say that if I had reviewed this for FA I would have opposed. Popcornduff (talk) 13:58, 20 May 2018 (UTC)

That's neither here nor there.

• In terms of what the lead is missing... the version I contest is simply a long plot summary and list of the various instalments and spin-offs, with little coverage of its essential gameplay elements, or critical reception. Popcornduff (talk) 04:29, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Please see other FA series articles. Also, a two-sentence paragraph in the lead? Really? That's what you had trimmed the last paragraph to. --JDC808 ♫ 06:18, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

I appreciate your compromises so far. I still think the first sentence is a major problem. Popcornduff (talk) 06:41, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

Took a stab at reworking the opening. I think "mythology-based" is important to keep in that opening sentence. --JDC808 ♫ 19:19, 23 May 2018 (UTC)

I still think "mythology-based" is a bad move. "Action-adventure game franchise" is sufficient for the first sentence, and moreover, "mythology-based" just isn't an elegant bit of writing. There's no adjective form so you're just having to shove "-based" on the end. Do we really need it? Popcornduff (talk) 16:54, 26 May 2018 (UTC)

I disagree. If it was still based on Greek mythology, then okay, but they've expanded beyond that and have plans for others. The mythologies are a key part of the franchise (even when it was just Greek mythology). Not mentioning that, in my opinion, makes it feel less important. --JDC808 ♫ 03:12, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

Do we really need to be so specific in the first sentence? Could we compromise with "fantasy"? Popcornduff (talk) 03:48, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

I say yes to being specific (although it's not that specific), and it's not really a "fantasy" series per se. --JDC808 ♫ 04:07, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

You think a story about a bunch of warring gods isn't fantasy? Popcornduff (talk) 04:57, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

I didn't say that. I meant that when you think of "fantasy games", this series isn't exactly what comes to mind. When you search fantasy game on Wikipedia, you get redirected to role-playing game. Although the newest game did introduce some RPG elements, it's not a full blown RPG. To say fantasy would basically be mislabeling it in that sense. --JDC808 ♫ 02:55, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

RfC: Plot spoilers in lede

Should the series' entire plot be revealed in the lede? 20:06, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

• Spoiling the series' entire plot in the lede is not necessary for an overview of the franchise, and specific plot details from each game are better suited to the Games section of the article or each game's own dedicated article. The spoilers also contribute to the length of a lede that is much too long; see for example the FA series articles Kingdom Hearts and Final Fantasy. Vrrajkum (talk) 20:06, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

• Removing what you want to remove would not adequately cover the article as a lead should do. Furthermore, this became a Featured Article after those had already been featured for quite some time (10 years in fact; times have changed since then). FAC reviewers took no issues in the summary, other than some copy-editing (and Final Fantasy isn't exactly a good example here when all but a couple are standalone games; God of War, on the other hand, is a continuous story about Kratos). --JDC808 ♫ 01:38, 15 December 2018 (UTC)
  • Tried to compromise. --JDC808 ♫ 02:40, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

God Of War Hydra Battle Demo [Not For Resale]

Where does the God Of War: The Hydra Battle [Not For Resale Demo Disc] fall into the production? Normally when you have a demo, it came with another game, or was part of a bonus with a system, though from what I can tell this was sold as a stand alone. It looks as though the Demo was January 2005, and then the actual game was released at the end of March 2005. 98.11.150.181 (talk) 02:53, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

@98.11.150.181 interesting question. I believe it was either sold as a standalone or just handed out by game stores. That's essentially how I acquired it. A classmate freshman year of high school had the demo disc and that's how I got it. JDC808 ♫ 00:11, 18 May 2023 (UTC)