Talk:Genocides in history (before World War I)

Removal of Hamidian massacres

Many scholars, such as the Mkrtich G. Nersisyan, Ruben Sahakyan, John Kirakosyan, Yehuda Bauer, Benny Morris and Dror Ze'evi in their book The Thirty-Year Genocide, subscribe to the view that the mass killings of 1894–1896 were the first phase of the Armenian Genocide. As such they should not be removed from the article. Khirurg (talk) 19:46, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Mid-importance or High-importance?

Several projects associated with this article (notably, WikiProject Human rights) so far tag this article as being of "Mid-importance". Should this article be rated as High importance, at least within the WikiProject Human rights? Thank you. Al83tito (talk) 20:41, 9 July 2021 (UTC)

Should the Albigensian Crusade section be moved?

The section on the Albigensian Crusade is listed under 1492 to 1914. Since it happened in the 13th century, shouldn't it be moved to before 1492? Maximajorian Viridio (talk) 05:47, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

@Maximajorian Viridio: Good catch! Yeah that should be moved to the correct section, I'm not sure how that was not noticed before. --LordPeterII (talk) 08:06, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

Corn in Gallia?

How can Caesar and his men destroy all the corn in Gallia centuries before corn was introduced to Europe? --2001:14BA:16E9:B600:0:0:0:1 (talk) 07:26, 31 August 2021 (UTC)

The article is in British English, so presumably uses corn in the sense of what Americans would call grain. --2001:8003:1D0D:301:BCB2:1CBB:4089:E9C2 (talk) 08:42, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Only Americans use the term "corn" to refer to maize. Dimadick (talk) 15:48, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

Neanderthals

This information was removed, with the following edit summary: "Removed more undue weight given to a fringe theory. These are not reliable authors." Your thoughts?

Hypotheses which suggest that genocidal violence may have caused the extinction of the Neanderthals have been offered by several authors, including Jared Diamond and Ronald Wright. However, several scholars have formed alternative theories as to why the Neanderthals died out, which means there is no clear consensus as to what caused their extinction within the scientific community.

References

Neolithic period

This information was removed, with the following edit summary: "Isolated mass graves of ~30 people are quite obviously not "proof of genocide" in prehistory." Your thoughts?

The mass grave near Schletz, part of Asparn an der Zaya, was located about 33 kilometres to the north of Vienna, Austria, and dates back about 7,500 years. Schletz, just like the Talheim Death Pit, is one of the earliest known sites in the archaeological record that shows proof of genocide in Early Neolithic Europe, among various LBK tribes.

References

Indo-European migrations

This information was removed, with the following edit summary: "Rm. synthesis of primary archaeogenetic studies. We only have one scholar (Kristiansen) mentioning the word genocide, and even that is only an interview, so highly undue to base an entire section on it." Your thoughts?

The Neolithic farmers, called the Early European Farmers (EEF), migrated from Anatolia to the Balkans in large numbers during the 7th millennium BC. Around 3,000 BC, people of the pastoralist Yamnaya culture from the Pontic–Caspian steppe, who had high levels of WSH ancestry, embarked on a massive expansion throughout Eurasia, which is considered to be associated with the dispersal of the Indo-European languages by most contemporary linguists, archaeologists, and geneticists. The expansion of WSHs resulted in the virtual disappearance of the Y-DNA of Early European Farmers (EEFs) from the European gene pool, significantly altering the cultural and genetic landscape of Europe. EEF mtDNA however remained frequent, suggesting admixture between WSH males and EEF females. More than 90% of Britain's Neolithic gene pool was replaced with the coming of the Beaker people, who were around 50% WSH ancestry. Danish archaeologist Kristian Kristiansen said he is "increasingly convinced there must have been a kind of genocide." According to geneticist David Reich, "The collision of these two populations was not a friendly one, not an equal one, but one where the males from outside were displacing local males and did so almost completely."

References

-- Tobby72 (talk) 09:45, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

I have been looking at your addition too as it looked unsound to me. Most of the info is about the tribe and not about the events. It seems to be based upon an opinion of one person: Kristian Kristiansen. David Reich does not back up the claim of genocide. The addition also lacks peer reviewed scientific sources.

Conclusion: the removal was correct. The Banner talk 10:23, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

I haven't much to say beyond what I put in the edit summary. Eminent as Professor Kristiansen is, a single offhand comment from him in a sensationalist pop science article doesn't constitute a significant viewpoint in reliable sources. And in general we need to bear in mind that Indo-European studies is a rapidly evolving field right now, with different primary sources coming to radically different conclusions; and that news media and pop science coverage of these topics tends to be extremely unreliable. Secondary, scholarly sources are always preferable and I don't think you'll find any significant support for the notion of an Indo-European 'genocide' in those. – Joe (talk) 10:42, 26 August 2022 (UTC)