Talk:Foreign trade of medieval Novgorod

Did you know nomination

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cielquiparle (talk) 12:01, 10 March 2023 (UTC)

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The marketplace in Novgorod, by Apollinary Vasnetsov

• ... that medieval Novgorod supplied western Europe with fashionable furs? Source: Lukin, Pavel V. (2017). Wubs-Mrozewicz, Justyna; Krom, Mikhail; Blockmans, Wim (eds.). The Routledge Handbook of Maritime Trade around Europe 1300-1600. Routledge. p. 299. ISBN 9781315278551. Novgorod supplied the West European market with such valuable goods as furs and beeswax. Fur was not only needed for making warm clothes, but was prized foremost as expensive and fashionable clothing for the higher strata of society..
  • ALT0a: ... that medieval western Europeans got most of their fashionable furs from traders from Novgorod?
  • ALT0b: ... that traders from Novgorod supplied medieval western Europe with fashionable furs?
  • ALT1: ... that one of the birch-bark documents found in Novgorod contains text in Latin, attesting to the trade with western Europe? Source: Lukin, Pavel V. (2017). Wubs-Mrozewicz, Justyna; Krom, Mikhail; Blockmans, Wim (eds.). The Routledge Handbook of Maritime Trade around Europe 1300-1600. Routledge. p. 299. ISBN 9781315278551. The findings were dated to the fourteenth–fifteenth centuries when the Gothic Yard belonged to German merchants. Worth particular mention among them is a birch-bark document from the late fourteenth or early fifteenth century, written in Latin and containing excerpts from liturgical texts.
  • Reviewed: Template:Did you know nominations/Alexandra Hunt

Created by Alaexis (talk). Self-nominated at 21:25, 19 February 2023 (UTC). Post-promotion hook changes for this nom will be logged at Template talk:Did you know nominations/Foreign trade of medieval Novgorod; consider watching this nomination, if it is successful, until the hook appears on the Main Page.

• Will review tonight, making copyedits first. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 03:16, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

• @Alaexis: Interesting subject. New enough, definitely long enough, well written (with a few suggestions below) and cited (largely in Russian):

• Define with dates what timespan the article covers, and explain where Novgorod is geographically
• Not necessary at all, but is it possible to describe the boundaries of how far Novgorod trade reached?
• The Rus' is mentioned in the lead but not the body
• "The similarity of hoards found in Novgorod and Southern Baltic attests" - what does this mean?
• "... and were present on Gotland, where the remains of an Orthodox church were excavated" - significance?
• "... involved Novgorodians of different social status" - would the source support "all social statuses"?
• "... particularly those with Vsevolod and Yaroslav" - are these the princes whose trade agreements were most important? if so, clarify
• I notice you seem averse to commas, so I tried to add in only the really necessary ones, but there are some other spots where they'd help a little with clarity
• Conversely, you seem to overuse the word "the" - I took out many of the unnecessary ones, hope I haven't created any wrong meanings
• Is this church the one pictured? if so, add link in body

• Overall very close () to approval. Much prefer ALT0, wondering if my ALT0a is accurate? "Most of" could be changed to "many of" or "some of" depending on what's reflected in sources. I like the picture but it's not very readable at small size. Oh, and a technical point, the source supporting the hook typically should appear in the article in the place where the claim appears; I'll let you add that when we've settled on a hook. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 04:05, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
• Adding ALT0b - which should not need additional sourcing. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 14:43, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

@Hameltion:, thanks for the feedback, I'll review it and amend the article where necessary. Alaexis_¿question? 19:34, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

I've made some changes, please take a look at them. Regarding the objects found in hoards in Novgorod and South Baltic, if it's still not clear it can be removed, it's not that important.

Regarding the Novgorodian trade post on Gotland and the remains of the church, I'm also fine with removing some details (but see the latest version).

I'm sure that ALT0a is true, but I can't find it stated explicitly, so probably ALT0b is the best option.

As for definite articles and commas, I'm not a native speaker and I guess I'm over-compensating :) Alaexis_¿question? 21:45, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Nice work, all looks good. I might still like to know a bit about modern Novgorod trade - how it evolved after the medieval period and whether it's still a "major trade hub". Up to you. Hameltion (talk | contribs) 22:07, 1 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the review! As to the post-medieval period, it's also an interesting topic, I'll add something about it later. Alaexis_¿question? 15:38, 2 March 2023 (UTC)