Talk:Eleventh Avenue (Manhattan)

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West End Avenue section[edit]

West End and Eleventh should be split, as the CPW and Eighth Ave pages are. The Sections are so vvery distinct in character.Elan26 (talk) 16:30, 7 July 2008 (UTC)Elan26[reply]

Other streets with different names for different segments had enough good material for each segment to make an article. For this one there isn't even enough text to make a reasonable sized West End Avenue section in this article, much less a whole separate article for that part. Jim.henderson (talk) 16:12, 13 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]
CPW and Eighth are no longer split because they are not different. The street name is the only thing separating them. Same thing with the Waverly Place/Washington Square North pair of articles; the 59th Street/CPS pair; the 5th Avenue/Museum Mile pair, the 8th Street/St. Mark's pair, and the 110th/CPN pair. Epicgenius (talk) 21:39, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

West End Avenue merger[edit]

West End should be merged into 11th Avenue. (Basically, the opposite of the above section.)

They have the same history and similar character. Besides, West End is just a stub that shows the architectural character of the upper part. Epicgenius (talk) 20:32, 26 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge with West End Avenue[edit]

They are just the same street with two different names. Also see Template talk:Streets of Manhattan. Epicgenius (talk) 03:32, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

If done, the resulting article should show both names, i.e. "Eleventh Avenue / West End Avenue". However, please don't merge with a consensus to do so. Beyond My Ken (talk) 06:36, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]
Okay, I won't move until there is consensus. Epicgenius (talk) 16:01, 8 November 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I too feel that the two entries should be merged. They are one road, called different things depending on the exact location. A well structured article could cover both and be linked to from either search term... just not sure which search term should be the actual page.BoingsterBoingster (talk) 16:40, 23 May 2014 (UTC)[reply]

References / Notes[edit]

Why? "Notes" removed by User:Bhny; User:Beyond My Ken re-adds it, then the game is repeated by Bhny and Beyond My Ken. While Beyond My Ken didn't give any edit summaries, Bhny once wrote: "Why?". As there are no other subheadings, I, too, don't see any need to introduce an unnecessary subdivision. WP:FNNR allows for various terms to be used for this section, but there's no need to use two terms for one homogeneous section. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 10:52, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Because "References" is a 'category of things, and "Notes" is a specific kind of reference. Note that MOS is a guideline, not a policy, and cannot "allow" or disallow anything, since it is not mandatory.BMK (talk) 15:05, 7 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
So why not simplify matters and replace "References" with "Notes"? -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 06:54, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Because "References" is a category of things, and acts as a catchall for any additional types of references that may be added to the article.

Believe me, I once felt exactly as you do, and I was undoing the edits of another editor, and making the same arguments that you're making, until I realized that he was right, and I was wrong. All articles should have a standard "References" -- just like the standard "See also"" and ""External links" sections -- and we should then inform our readers what kind of references are in this article. It's clean, it's logical, and -- to some people very important -- it's within policy and not disallowed by MOS. BMK (talk) 07:30, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]

And in what sense are the references in this article not just "references" but "notes"? In my understanding, a note explains something that would be distracting to include in the main narration, e.g. why a person's birthday is uncertain, or differences in the pronunciation of a foreign term. References provide citations for claims made in the article, and that's what we find in this article. ("Footnotes" is a term covering both.) So, back to square one: omit "Notes" because they aren't. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 09:48, 8 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Michael Bednarek: Just a few notes.
  1. Many articles that BMK significantly edited have this style of referencing.
  2. If BMK's "category" argument is good, then why don't we use ==Notes== instead?
  3. Does it really matter whether we use "References" or "Notes"? It's not important. The article needs more references and less of these stupid edit wars. Epicgenius (talk) 19:23, 9 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
ad 1.: So? BMK's house style?
ad 2.: That's what I suggested, too.
ad 3.: It doesn't, but there should only be one term if there's only one kind. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 03:22, 10 June 2014 (UTC)[reply]
May be a little late, but 1: Yes; 2: OK, but don't expect it anytime soon; 3: I agree. Epicgenius (talk) 02:28, 30 July 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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Death Avenue[edit]

The Death Avenue is not the 11th, but the 10th, cf. [1]. The redirection has to be changed. - Cymbella (talk) 20:06, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

 Done Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:38, 7 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I don't dispute that story at livinthehighline.com by Annik La Farge, but it is somewhat contradicted by the two articles involved. This article, Eleventh Avenue, discusses "Death Avenue" and gives a NYT citation from May 1911 (which I can't read). The article about Tenth Avenue mentions of course the West Side Line but doesn't mention "death", although the restaurant Death Ave is indeed located on Tenth. I think "Death Avenue" may have been used for both avenues in various sources, and the article on Tenth Ave needs to include a mention of "Death Avenue" to justify the redirect. -- Michael Bednarek (talk) 01:43, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Actually, doing some checking, the "Death Avenue" nickname was given to both 10th and 11th. I'll make the necessary adjustments.Beyond My Ken (talk) 01:47, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
OK, I've converted the Death Avenue redirect into a short article, using material from High Line (properly credited on the talk page, as required), and added much of the same material to the Tenth Avenue (Manhattan) article. Now, I think I just need to make it clear in this article that both avenues were referred to by that name, and I think we're done. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:10, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:32, 8 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
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