Talk:Deception

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Examples of Disguise appearence

User:Dissembly removed the example "Depict a war as a peace mission", arguing that "this is not a politics forum". Instead I think that this is a perfectly appropriate example, that it's not infering any political POV since it's not referring to any specific war, and that its useful to have some non trivial examples.--BMF81 00:15, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

I believed it to be biased because "disguise" refers to concealing the identity of a physical object, the example "depicting war as peace" is far more abstract than that, and i don't see how it'd help anyone seeking information on 'disguise' (The reason i argue that it's political bias is that wether or not something is a "peace mission" is subjective judgement, whereas the example given treated it as an objective entity. In the current political climate, this seems politically charged, at the least). If disguise does, in fact, have some more abstract technical definition that i'm ignorant of, a little extra information clarifying this might be appropriate.

After thinking about it, i do agree that it's a form of deception, and that non-trivial, politically charged examples can be appropriate in some contexts. I don't think it belongs under 'disguise' (once again, this judgement depends on wether there's some technical definition i'm missing, as i said above...), however a section on propaganda/media&political bias/misleading debating tactics is relevant to the subject of "Deception", and perhaps this is where the example belongs.

Edited to add: I have modified the article in line with this idea. Is this a fair compromise?

--User:Dissembly

Deception and intention

I propose deception is the very essence of evil. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.231.21.180 (talk) 12:28, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

I propose that deception occurs only if both of two conditions occur: (1) that there was an intention to deceive, and that (2) the target was successfully deceived. I mention this because if I accidentally tell a lie (for example, I might have misunderstood something and be sharing my incorrect opinion in good faith), I would not consider myself to be a deceiver. The second condition is required because I cannot be said to have deceived someone if they were not actually deceived - for them to be deceived takes place on their cognitive turf. Here are the combinations of intention and belief, only one is (I believe) deception...

- If I accidentally lie, and the target believes me, it is not deception. - If I tell a lie on purpose and the target believes me, it is deception. - If I accidentally lie and the target does not believe me, it is not deception. - If I tell a lie on purpose and the target does not believe me, it is not deception.

Opinions? Jas 01:32, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

What if there is no intention at all? What about signals sent my mimetic weeds that resemble crops? A definition should be based on a reliable source, not the reasoning of the article's contributors. Richard001 05:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that weeds send signals. If some of them happen to look more like crops (by some accident of genetic variation), then they might survive better, and this characteristic would help the genetic deviants to survive, but it's not deception any more than a poodle is deceptive by not being spotted in long grass. On your second point, what's unreliable about reason? :) Jas 00:14, 21 September 2007 (UTC)

False conclusion.

In hopes of exposing this type of deception (original research) hopefully someone can find a similar reference to it..

Cult-feminists, used flawed generalized logic to manipulate the models of abuse...

Most victims of violence are female,(in a family setting) (one form of abuse) (not all violence is abuse) therefor all victims are female, and we must develop programs to stop violence against women, by men.

There may be more than one type of manipulation here...

--Caesar J. B. Squitti  : Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 03:32, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

--Caesar J. B. Squitti  : Son of Maryann Rosso and Arthur Natale Squitti 17:03, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Should "Specious" redirect here?

A question about whether Specious should redirect to this page has been raised at Talk:Specious#Apr 2008. Comments there would be appreciated. Rossami (talk) 00:30, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

Dictdef

Obviously, there are things that can be said about "deception" which are beyond a simple dictionary definition (which would not merit an actual Wikipedia article.) However, a quick look at the article and the talk page suggests that a great deal of the article is devoted to dictionary definition, and that it has been abused by POV-pushers all adding "examples", in the text and (by implication) in the See Also section. Ideally this article should probably be little more than a disambiguation page, doing the minimum to distinguish between the different forms of deception and then linking to other articles which explain that form. For instance, the section "Deception in Psychological Experimentation" (if it is not a copyright violation) should probably be spun off into an article of its own.

The problem is that the entire subject of "deception" is so huge that focusing on anything besides the very largest divisions of it is showing inappropriate focus. -- 65.78.13.238 (talk) 15:10, 3 January 2009 (UTC)

Fair point: I have resubmitted my thoughts to WikInfo instead, as my contribution constitutes original research - I think. Jas (talk) 17:08, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

'five main types of deception'

the article states catagorically that the five main types of deception are (lying etc.), but incorrectly i think. for example, number 5, understatement, is self-evidently a less common and less egregious form of deceit than making statements which are deliberately misleading (without lying nor etc.). the fact that this practice seems to lack a handy nominal form (i.e. something terser than "making deliberately misleading statements"--what am i missing here?) doesn't mean it shouldn't take it's rightful place on a short list of main "types" of deceptive speech. (which leads to another even more important point, namely that most deception isn't of an overtly verbal nature, obviously: deception isn't just, nor even primarily, a linguistic phenomenon). ----(no tildes to be seen on this keyboard) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Rflacco (talk • contribs) 17:46, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Deception in sports

Deception is a very important part of sports strategy (e.g., football and baseball). Would that fit in here? There don't seem to be any other articles on this, at least none that I can find. Genesis 1:3 (talk) 22:28, 8 January 2011 (UTC)

Split

This article is serving two purposes: it is a general discussion of deception (camouflage, etc.) as well as an extended discussion of deception in human relationships. It should be split accordingly into two articles and cross-referenced. Jaywilson (talk) 14:16, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Investigative detection

Hello.

I'm surprised that this article does not cover matters such as investigative detection (e.g. surveillance), or technological methods of revealing evidence, such as wiretaps. I would propose the addition of this. Is there a reason that this is not included in the article? 70.248.180.39 (talk) 20:59, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

-- I would say that that is unnecessary because this article is based more on deception in relationships instead of deception between enemies. Thepoodlechef (talk) 17:12, 23 September 2012 (UTC)

• How are those forms of deception? Based on the title of this section, perhaps you're in the wrong place. This article isn't about detection. Incidentally, that redirected to sensor, which is strange. I've restored it, although it's a pretty rough article. Perhaps you could add some of that information yourself. --BDD (talk) 05:29, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

Aldert Vrij 1981?

Something by "Aldert Vrij" from 1981 is referred to twice in the text, but the footnote provides no significant bibliographic citation, and nothing is listed in References or See Also. Can this please be addressed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.233.172.101 (talk) 13:53, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Tactical deception

Tactical deception was my sole reason for coming here, due to its essential role in developing the Theory of Mind (ToM) in any mindful creature. Mind you, I think it deceptive that this article makes no reference to either concept, though I don't think the omission was intensional. --Pawyilee (talk) 17:18, 26 June 2014 (UTC)

'Spin'

I'm stunned that there seems to be no discussion or even mention of the term 'Spin' which by its effect is organized and intentional deception.65.49.186.5 (talk) 21:55, 2 June 2015 (UTC)

@David "Coke" KokI feel used! I feel betrayed! Me siento dolorosamente engañada! Too much HURT !Nobody to trust:(! 189.170.28.141 (talk) 13:31, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

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Deception within Romantic Relationships

The following entry's purpose it to be added as a new section to the Deception Wiki page, as well as revise the Motives section. It was believed that the use of deception within romantic relationships was lacking from the page, as there is a sufficient amount of empirical research on this topic. Suggestions and comments to the entry are welcome.

In Romantic Relationships

Deception is particularly common within romantic relationships, with more than 90% of individuals admitting to lying or not being completely honest with their partner at one time.

There are three primary motivations for deception in relationships.

• • Partner-focused motives: Using deception to avoid hurting the partner, to help the partner to enhance or maintain his/her self-esteem, to avoid worrying the partner, and to protect the partner's relationship with a third party. Partner-focused motivated deception can sometimes be viewed as socially polite and relationally beneficial, such as telling white lies to avoid hurting your partner. Although other, less common, partner-focused motives such as using to deception to evoke jealous reactions from their partner may have damaging effects on a relationship.
  • Self-focused motives: Using deception to enhance or protect one’s own self-image, maintain or establish their autonomy, avoid constrictions, unwanted activities, or impositions, shield themselves from anger, embarrassment, or criticism, or resolve an argument. Another common self-focused motive for deception, is a continuation of deception in order to avoid being caught in a previous deception. Self-focused deception is generally perceived as a more serious transgression than partner-focused deception, because the deceiver is acting for selfish reasons rather than for the good of the partner or relationship.
  • Relationship-focused motives: Using deception to limit relationship harm by avoiding conflict or relational trauma. Relationally motivated deception can be beneficial to a relationship, and other times it can be harmful by further complicating matters. Deception may also be used to facilitate the dissolution of an unwanted relationship.

Deception impacts the perception of a relationship in a variety of ways, for both the deceiver and the deceived. The deceiver typically perceives less understanding and intimacy from the relationship, in that they see their partner as  less empathetic and more distant. The act of deception can also result in feelings of distress for the deceiver, which become worse the longer the deceiver has known the deceived, as well as in longer-term relationships. Once discovered, deception creates feelings of detachment and uneasiness surrounding the relationship for both partners; this can eventually lead to both partners becoming more removed from the relationship and/or deterioration of the relationship. In general, discovery of deception can result in a decrease in relationship satisfaction and commitment level, however, in instances where a person is successfully deceived, relationship satisfaction can actually be positively impacted for the person deceived, since lies are typically used to make the other partner feel more positive about the relationship.

In general, deception tends to occur less often in relationships with higher satisfaction and commitment levels and in relationships where partners have known each other longer, such as long-term relationships and marriage. In comparison, deception is more likely to occur in casual relationships and in dating where commitment level and length of acquaintanceship is often much lower.

Infidelity

Unique to exclusive romantic relationships is the use of deception in the form of infidelity. When it comes to the occurrence of infidelity, there are many individual difference factors that can impact this behavior. Infidelity is impacted by attachment style, relationship satisfaction, executive function, sociosexual orientation, personality traits, and gender. Attachment style impacts the probability of infidelity and research indicates that people with an insecure attachment style (anxious or avoidant) are more likely to cheat compared to individuals with a secure attachment style, especially for avoidant men and anxious women. Insecure attachment styles are characterized by a lack of comfort within a romantic relationship resulting in a desire to be overly independent (avoidant attachment style) or a desire to be overly dependent on their partner in an unhealthy way (anxious attachment style). Those with an insecure attachment style are characterized by not believing that their romantic partner can/will support and comfort them in an effective way, either stemming from a negative belief regarding themselves (anxious attachment style) or a negative belief regarding romantic others (avoidant attachment style). Women are more likely to commit infidelity when they are emotionally unsatisfied with their relationship whereas men are more likely to commit infidelity if they are sexually unsatisfied with their current relationship. Women are more likely to commit emotional infidelity than men while men are more likely to commit sexual infidelity than women; however, these are not mutually exclusive categories as both men and women can and do engage in emotional and/or sexual infidelity.

Executive control is a part of executive functions that allows for individuals to monitor and control their behavior through thinking about and managing their actions. The level of executive control that an individual possesses is impacted by development and experience and can be improved through training and practice. Those individuals that show a higher level of executive control can more easily influence/control their thoughts and behaviors in relation to potential threats to an ongoing relationship which can result in paying less attention to threats to the current relationship (other potential romantic mates). Sociosexual orientation is concerned with how freely individuals partake in casual sex outside of a committed relationship and their beliefs regarding how necessary it is to be in love in order to engage in sex with someone. Individuals with a less restrictive sociosexual orientation (more likely to partake in casual sex) are more likely to engage in infidelity. Individuals that have personality traits including (high) neuroticism, (low) agreeableness, and (low) conscientiousness are more likely to commit infidelity. Men are generally speculated to cheat more than women, but it is unclear if this is a result of socialization processes where it is more acceptable for men to cheat compared to women or due to an actual increase in this behavior for men. Research conducted by Conley and colleagues (2011) suggests that the reasoning behind these gender differences stems from the negative stigma associated with women who engage in casual sex and inferences about the sexual capability of the potential sexual partner. In their study, men and women were equally likely to accept a sexual proposal from an individual who was speculated to have a high level of sexual prowess. Additionally, women were just as likely as men to accept a casual sexual proposal when they did not anticipate being subjected to the negative stigma of sexually permissible women as slutty.

Deception in Online Dating

(see also Catfishing)

Research on the use of deception in online dating has shown that people are generally truthful about themselves with the exception of physical attributes to appear more attractive.  According to the Scientific American, “nine out of ten online daters will fib about their height, weight, or age” such that men were more likely to lie about height while women were more likely to lie about weight. In a study conducted by Toma and Hancock, “less attractive people were found to be more likely to have chosen a profile picture in which they were significantly more attractive than they were in everyday life”. Both genders used this strategy in online dating profiles, but women more so than men. Additionally, less attractive people were more likely to have “lied about objective measures of physical attractiveness such as height and weight”. In general, men are more likely to lie on dating profiles the one exception being that women are more likely to lie about weight.

Jstoker849 (talk) 18:22, 13 October 2016 (UTC)jstoker849

References

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Presence and absence of guile

I searched for guile on Wikipedia, and the disambiguation page led me to the deception article. However, this article only describes deception itself, and from what I could skim, it does not seem to discuss the differences between people who have guile and people who don't have guile, and instead assumes people having guile as a given. As someone on the autism spectrum, this has been a relevant topic in my decades of treatment, since at least some people on the spectrum pathologically lack guile, and can struggle relating to the thought processes of people with guile, and vice versa. I've since been informed that, generally, if you try to tell most people with guile that you don't have guile, they will assume you are lying and think you actually have a lot of guile, yet this may not necessarily be immediately obvious to someone without guile. Just one of many guile-related issues.

Perhaps Wikipedia could still use its own article on guile, not as an article on deception itself, but maybe on guile as the presence or absence of the ability to deceive? - Gilgamesh (talk) 15:02, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

"if you try to tell most people with guile that you don't have guile" I shall try to explain this in as simple words as possible. People are not inclined to take self-descriptions at face value, because many of them have had some experience with the proverbial wolf in sheep's clothing. Outright telling people that you are incapable of "deceitful cunning" (guile) is not going to convince them to let their guard down. I am not certain Wikipedia needs an article on guile, but what you have encountered seems to be distrust. Dimadick (talk) 15:48, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

First of all, this is a real query, not a personal misunderstanding. This isn't me treating this talk page like a self-help forum, or me relating to a specific experience. We're not talking just about me, but I'm interested in the topic because it does include me. It is very common for people on the spectrum to lack guile. And maybe other kinds of people, too. So, the topic of there being people who lack guile is still an entirely real one, and worthy of reference, so I want to read more about it. I'm just not sure how to go about finding it, in terms of the references, appropriate articles to search for (or create), etc. - Gilgamesh (talk) 16:17, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Okay, perhaps the topic I'm looking for is guilelessness, and there's no article for that. Most people have guile. This would be about people who don't. - Gilgamesh (talk) 17:44, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

In Journalism

Could there be more information about deception in journalism such as the way the media portrays instances in certain ways depending on where they stand politically? Gbrister (talk) 22:09, 25 January 2022 (UTC).

Sure, if reliable, independent sources have examined the issue and published documentation of their research. Schazjmd (talk) 22:21, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Nonverbal

I noticed in the "Communications" section that it mentions how deception is basically managing verbal or nonverbal messages. Could a link be added to "nonverbal" about nonverbal communication to give more information? Or, maybe there could be a section in this article dedicated to nonverbal deception. Kteah (talk) 06:26, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Criticism as Praxis

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 6 February 2023 and 19 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): BKilkenny (article contribs).

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