Talk:Death of Ali Jawad al-Sheikh

Important notice: Prior discussion has determined that the photograph of corpse of Ali Jawad al-Sheikh is allowed and will not be removed from this article. Discussion of image should be posted to the subpage Talk:Death of Ali Jawad al-Sheikh/Photograph of corpse. Removal of picture without discussion will be reverted. If you find the photograph of corpse of Ali Jawad al-Sheikh offensive, it is possible to configure your browser or use your personal Wikipedia settings not to display them, see this.

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A fact from Death of Ali Jawad al-Sheikh appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know column on 22 September 2011 (check views). The text of the entry was as follows:

Did you know... that Ali Jawad al-Sheikh was allegedly killed when he was hit by a tear gas canister during protests after an initial government crackdown in Bahrain?

A record of the entry may be seen at Wikipedia:Recent additions/2011/September. The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Death of Ali Jawad al-Sheikh.

Wikipedia

DYK[edit]

The article has been nominated to be on the front page in the DYK section. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 14:03, 6 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Contested deletion[edit]

This article should not be speedily deleted for lack of asserted importance because the sources clearly show his importance, including additional sources such as this, this, and this. We should not be engaging in WP:BIAS just because this article is about an event in Bahrain. Furthermore, the images included in the article were specifically released by the subject's family into the public domain, so they are certainly not against the existence of this article as the Speedy Deletion nominator suggests. Silver seren^C 05:07, 11 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Disturbing image[edit]

Do we really have to show the disturbing photo of the corpse on this article? How does it specifically elevate the content of the article or help convey the information in it? This photo is not only disturbing but also inappropriate for underage people and others who may come and read this article. I think it should be removed. Mar4d (talk) 10:38, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Do we seriously have to go through another Death of Khaled Mohamed Saeed? Egyptian Liberal even took the time to get this image put into the public domain so that we wouldn't have the same issues as last time. The picture is important and descriptive. It is discussed directly in the sources and provides a focus for the arguments between the protesters and the government on how Ali died. Silver seren^C 15:37, 20 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

WP:CENSOR suggests "Discussion of potentially objectionable content should not focus on its offensiveness but on whether it is appropriate to include in a given article." This picture adds nothing to the knowledge of the reader: it illustrates without explaining. As such, it is not essential to the article. Once it is not essential, it is a judgement call. The judgement that it is poor taste is my one.

Good god, are gonna does this dance every freaking article? The goes back to Nada's article and picture of her corpse. It very tiring to be honest. I image where he got hit, him bleeding from where he got hit which supports the claim on why he died. Im sure to get a hold of the family to avoid the dance on more time. And PS: Ali's sister gave me permission to use it on this article to if the family is ok with it, I dont why we have a problem. -- The Egyptian Liberal (talk) 11:14, 21 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This material is clearly illustrating the subject in a encyclopedic manner; in no way I perceive it focusing on the offensiveness itself (it isn't intended to *just* shock, after all). I see it as a good illustration of the facts outlined in prose. And I might add that it helped me to understand the issue better. --187.40.241.221 (talk) 08:23, 22 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I came across this article by accident. I'd like to suggest the image be hidden, as has been done to other images not suitable for all Wikipedia users. I don't think it should be removed, but people should be able to choose whether or not they want to see it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Norbo5150 (talk • contribs) 16:10, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We don't hide images. I'm not sure what other images or articles that you think about, but this issue is the exact same as the one with Death of Khaled Mohamed Saeed and the overwhelming consensus was that we don't hide images just because they are graphic. Silver seren^C 16:48, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unless you think we should also hide photos like this or this. Silver seren^C 16:58, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Your argument is completely valid. The image of Emmett Till is another example of a graphic and confronting image that changed the world. I think the image of Ali Jawad al-Sheikh is a similar image of profound social importance. It should not be removed from the article under any circumstances. However, all of your examples are historical whereas this is a recent event. Displaying this image in an unrestricted form may suggest it is being used to promote a political or social agenda. Wikipedia needs to remain an objective resource when describing current events— Preceding unsigned comment added by Norbo5150 (talk • contribs) 09:36, 24 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Khaled Mohammed Saeed is an example from just a few months ago. Silver seren^C 17:37, 24 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Another image[edit]

This image shows his neck from behind with a clear tear gas canister mark on it. You need to take permission first though. Bahraini Activist (talk) 04:49, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Where is that image from? Can you give a link to the source? Silver seren^C 15:20, 30 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for late response This is the source (it's in Arabic). Bahraini Activist (talk) 17:57, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. In order to use images, we need to either have a Fair Use reasoning, which we don't really have for that one, since we already have an image of Ali's corpse in the article. The only other way to be able to use that image would be if it is released into the Public Domain, which means anyone would be able to use it however they want. In order to release it into the public domain, we need to contact the person who took that picture, since they own the copyright to it and organize a statement of release into the public domain from them, which will be sent to the WP:OTRS team for safekeeping, as an acknowledgement of the image being in the public domain.

Long story short, do you know who the person is that took that picture and do you know how to contact them? Without that information, we cannot use the image on Wikipedia. Silver seren^C 19:27, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I though this picture would show clearly that the injury which led to Ali's death was caused by a tear gas canister (I'm not saying it must be published here, it's just that this adds to the story). I know the person who published the photo and can contact him. What does he need to do in order for it to be released into the Public Domain? Bahraini Activist (talk) 19:47, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Well, the place that talks about it is Wikipedia:Granting work into the public domain, but in general, I would just need an email from him stating that he is the owner of said photo (include a internet link to the photo) and a statement that he releases the image into the public domain, understanding that this means that it can be used by other people for any purpose, including commercial purposes. Essentially, he would be giving up all rights to use of the photo, allowing other people to use it in whatever manner they want.

Alternatively, if he would like to keep some copyright to himself in terms of the photo, he can license it under the CC-BY-SA copyright format, which would mean that other people are allowed to use the image, as long as they give attribution back to him as being the creator of the photo.

It's his choice which version he would like to use. If he has any other questions, he can contact the OTRS team himself and also release the image specifically to them himself, emails for which can be found here: Wikipedia:Contact us/Permit. I hope that helps. Silver seren^C 20:42, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

It might also be best to upload the image onto Wikipedia directly beforehand, so that the link he gives to the photo can just be to the Wikipedia file page on the image. Much easier that way. Silver seren^C 20:44, 2 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

After long wait he says that he's not the owner of the picture. However, since you already managed to get the permission to publish this image, then you should be able to get permission for the other one (it's looks like they were taken in about the same time). Again, it's not a must to use the picture, I just though this would add to the story. Bahraini Activist (talk) 05:38, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

You'll have to go talk to The Egyptian Liberal about that then, since he's the one that got the copyright release for that image and was in contact with the family. And he is physically closer to them than my North American situated self as well. I'm not sure if that matters or not. Silver seren^C 06:05, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I have contacted him. Thanks for your help and sorry for bothering you. Bahraini Activist (talk) 06:50, 5 October 2011 (UTC)[reply]