Talk:Ali Abdullah Saleh

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Style[edit]

The tone and style of the second paragraph of the "Rise to Power" section does not come off as particularly neutral or professional (e.g. "he has been ruling with an iron hand, killing his opponents, and making sure that all tribes of Yemen are at war with each other, so they don't unite to overthrow him.") Amantgeorge (talk) 15:49, 31 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

This page has a lot of errors, is lacking in citations, and it possibly inaccurate in some of its claims and needs to be fixed. --Rashida25 (talk) 20:25, 23 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Birth year[edit]

Ok, that birth year has to be wrong. There's no way he was born in 1903. Worldbound 21:28, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Ah, found it. The correct year is 1942.--Worldbound 21:30, 23 June 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Most sources give his year of birth as 1942, including Yemeni government websites, so presumably that is the correct date. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brian Whitaker (talk • contribs) 07:08, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Mistakes[edit]

And he can't have been elected president in 1959 -- at the age of 17! Can someone fix that?Manormadman (talk) 02:23, 9 January 2008 (UTC)Manormadman[reply]

I'm currently writing my master's thesis and doing a lot of research on Salih. This page has TONS of errors and is haphazardly put together. I'm too busy to fix everything, but I suggest someone use Reich's book "Political Leaders of the contemporary middle east and north africa" or Long and Reich's Government and Politics of the middle east (Yemen section written by Gause). I'll fix as much as I can when I finish my thesis (april 21) -ilana —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.204.250.111 (talk) 14:20, 6 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Deleted a lot of unreferenced very not neutral statements regarding Saleh. Thirteensenses (talk) 00:35, 30 March 2010 (UTC)Thirteensenses[reply]

Spelling[edit]

The CIA spells his name Ali Abdallah Salih [1].Zigzig20s (talk) 23:49, 2 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

That spelling was created as a redirect back in 2006. Many of the CIA's spellings are different from what is commonly used in the local and international news media, and by other governments. Wikipedia tries to use the most common or official (in this case Yemen's government) spelling, and creates redirects for others. Flatterworld (talk) 17:50, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Unexplained deletions[edit]

There have been unexplained and mysterious deletions since December 14 (and probably many before then, but I don't have the time to go through those) of important content, some of which I have undone. For example: [2], [3], [4], [5]. I have attempted to restore most of this content, especially the large portion that was well-sourced. Wikiacc () 20:41, 2 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]

There also seems to be a strong determination to make this article an orphan by continually deleting any link to the Cabinet article, or by marking which Prime Minister was the last. Not everyone reading this article is aware of which order those names are listed in. We are supposed to be an encyclopedia, not a guessing game. Flatterworld (talk) 17:47, 23 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Pronounciation[edit]

What are the phonetics of Saleh? Tomeasy T C 12:20, 27 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Use of the word murderer[edit]

All Link that led to the President of Yemen article were showing the word Murderer. I have changed this, although I messed up the Wording a little, i.e. "He is the first President of Yemen serving as President of Yemen. I will make the corrections with my personal account within 6 hours if no one else has. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.222.37.57 (talk) 14:51, 29 March 2011 (UTC) I made my account, and corrected the confusing wording I introduced. TheBBlock (talk) 15:00, 29 March 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Ties with Iran[edit]

The whole page has quite a lot of inaccuracies. This section is misleading and I don't understand why Iran has been singled out. If Yemen's foreign policy needs to be included, its complex relations with Saudi Arabia, the US, EU and the GCC states are much more important. Yemen is not really an "ally" of Iran; the state of relations varies and at times has been quite strained, eg when Yemen hinted that Iran was supporting the Houthi rebels. Only two sources are cited in this section. One is a BBC report which doesn't actually mention Iran. The other source is a publication from Azerbaijan. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Brian Whitaker (talk • contribs) 07:03, 3 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Out of office?[edit]

I have seen nothing that suggests that Saleh is now the former President of Yemen other than speculation that he may not be allowed to return from Saudi Arabia. He is still in office, with al-Hadi merely "acting" for him. —Sesel (talk) 14:04, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Sounds like this is very possible, but still an unknown. Plus, his son and nephew are apparently still in Yemen. Either way, I added protection for three days by which time we should know more. Hiberniantears (talk) 21:02, 5 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

We should revisit this: Saleh's resignation will take effect on 23 December, 30 days after he signed the GCC deal today. But it's unclear whether he plans on returning to Yemen before then, and this 30-day period is likely to see Hadi assuming Saleh's responsibilities as president much as he did while Saleh was incapacitated in Riyadh earlier this year. -Kudzu1 (talk) 16:56, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Right. So the first sentence of the lede should still be in present tense since he's officially still the President until 23 December, barring further developments... --Roentgenium111 (talk) 17:02, 23 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Nope. He will be President until by February 21, not December 23. 60.49.63.145 (talk) 13:36, 22 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

POV tag[edit]

POV tag due to unverified comments and/or personal research; re: "Dictatorship". This appears to be a WMoS violation on living persons. Discuss here before redacting any changes or citation requests, per WMoS. In regards to the recent removal, the additional medical info/comment was redundant and already in article (see section below). GenQuest (talk) 13:22, July 30, 2011 (UTC)

Just be Bold and do it.
and sign the comments too.Lihaas (talk) 05:16, 23 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Saleh is President according to incumbant Yemeni authorities.[edit]

It is a bad thing that Wikipedia underrepresents the official view of incumbant Yemeni authorities that Saleh is still President. СЛУЖБА (talk) 23:25, 19 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Appreciations to Kudzu1 for speedily addressing this. СЛУЖБА (talk) 00:38, 23 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Assessment comment[edit]

The comment(s) below were originally left at Talk:Ali Abdullah Saleh/Comments, and are posted here for posterity. Following several discussions in past years, these subpages are now deprecated. The comments may be irrelevant or outdated; if so, please feel free to remove this section.

The article no longer has a stub tag.--Rmky87 22:29, 24 September 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Last edited at 22:29, 24 September 2006 (UTC). Substituted at 07:17, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Death[edit]

Yemen ex-President Saleh killed by Houthis.https://twitter.com/moh_Yfrosi/status/937659176310001671 https://www.facebook.com/100009106630187/videos/vb.100009106630187/1896643487315854/?type=2&video_source=user_video_tab — Preceding unsigned comment added by Qrmoo3 (talk • contribs) 12:35, 4 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Until one source declares "killed" without quotes, nothing is confirmed. --Edin Balgarin (talk) 13:39, 4 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Nope, he's dead. All over the news.50.111.62.5 (talk) 03:45, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

BLP dispute[edit]

@MonsterHunter32 and Emir of Wikipedia: What harm do you think that piece of POV would pose to the family of Saleh that his bloody fateful split with the Houthis hadn't already?! Your argument seems far-fetched! --Expectant of Light (talk) 19:41, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I have already restored the claim. I don't want any edit war, so I've added back a Houthi claim of Saleh's contacts with other countries that was originally added by you. I had removed it as it only one side's unconfirmed claim and may be potentially libelous. I considered BLP and its exception of recently deceased. I considered that nobody really had any problem. However, I didn't notice that Emir of Wikipedia had reverted your edit. I think it may be better, that a consensus is taken. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 19:47, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I say "libellous" because it's a charge of Saleh conspiring to betray for long and Houthis have called him a traitor. MonsterHunter32 (talk) 19:50, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Well, that Saleh had already coordinated with KSA and UAE is beyond debate. That POV only adds Russia into the mix! The recently deceased guideline is predicated on possible risk for next of kin which again I don't see how additional risk that POV would pose that could worsen their condition in a meaningful way, not to mention that many Saleh's fellow tribesmen were/are part of his own loyal armed forces so they are already posing risk to both themselves and others! The conflict with WP:NOTCENSORED and WP:NPOValso concern me! --Expectant of Light (talk) 20:07, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I don't think a Twitter from an unnamed spokes person is a reliable source for that claim. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 20:14, 5 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Birthdate[edit]

Hi, I'm from Arabic Wikipedia and i want to inform you about a correction that you have to make about his birth date. He was born in 1947 and not 1942. Please check arabic wikipedia for the sources علي عبد الله صالح. Thank you. --ANiMOP (talk) 11:18, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, that is correct, even by Ali Abdullah Saleh's own confession, he was married in 1964 at the age of seventeen, meaning, he was born in 1947. See: Yemen Today Post (Interview from 2004), posted May 18, 2017.Davidbena (talk) 19:16, 7 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Davidbena, أبو تائب, and Emir of Wikipedia: it means he joined army at 11 years old. So sources said that he was 16. And his opinion is a primary source.--Panam2014 (talk) 00:23, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I have actually lived in Yemen, and children indeed join the army there.Davidbena (talk) 06:22, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Davidbena, أبو تائب, and Emir of Wikipedia: He was born between 1942 and 1947 (1942/45/46/47). What is the proof that 1947 is the real birthdate ? --Panam2014 (talk) 14:04, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Davidbena: Easy, Media take the information that he was born 1942 from wikipedia and add 17 years to that date (Calculation). We have put the proof of his birthday on the arabic wikipedia and this is it and Here and Here (After he was killed the media found his National ID) --أبو تائب (talk) 15:18, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Davidbena, أبو تائب, and Emir of Wikipedia:But that the British and Monegasque authorities are not sure, do not we put 1947 and what are the possible dates are also possible? --Panam2014 (talk) 15:26, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Panam2014: I gave you the photo of his identity card. Who do you believe? Media or truth in the picture. --أبو تائب (talk) 15:31, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@أبو تائب:But we do not know if the Yemeni administration was mistaken, or did it want to be rejuvenated. --Panam2014 (talk) 15:33, 10 December 2017 (UTC).[reply]
But we do believe Saleh's own testimony about himself. He says about himself in the above video (and I can provide an English translation if anyone is interested in seeing it) that he was married in 1964, when he was aged seventeen. This means he was born in 1947.Davidbena (talk) 16:24, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Davidbena:Have you got the script ? Also, we do not necessary believe him. For example, Houari Boumediene was born officially in 1932 but some sources said 1925. Others sources said that Muammar Gaddafi, was born between 1940 and 1943, but was born officially in 1942. Also Habib Bourguiba was born in 1903 but some sources claims that he was born in 1901. We should keep 1947, the official date of birth but we should writing in the footnote that others sources said that he was born between 1942 and 1947. --Panam2014 (talk) 16:35, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I can provide you with the script, with its English translation, but I'll need to copy it from the Arabic video, with a link to the video and the time-setting on the video. That's not a problem. As for whether or not he is reliable, if you say that he is not to be believed, you would have to prove by some other verifiable Yemeni source that his words are misleading, otherwise it infringes on WP:OR.Davidbena (talk) 23:09, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Davidbena:I did not say that he lied, I say we are sure of nothing. Diplomatic sources themselves are not sure of anything. But where is the problem if we say that others sources give 1942, 1945, 1946?--Panam2014 (talk) 23:52, 10 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Yes, we can mention the other sources in a footnote, which I tried to do. Please feel free to expand. Still, we should give priority to the words of Ali Abdullah Saleh. A man, usually, knows the date of his marriage and his age.Davidbena (talk) 01:23, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Davidbena:Yes, the script interests me. What minutes does he talk about? --Panam2014 (talk) 15:41, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

@Panam2014:You can find where President Ali Abdullah Saleh speaks about his first marriage in Yemen Today Post, 7:00 - 7:45. By his own testimony, he married in 1964 at the age of seventeen. Enjoy!Davidbena (talk) 16:08, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Elbasyouny: please see here. @Davidbena: users continue to edit the page. Also, I have found an amended version of Security's council decision who said (in underlined) that he was born in 1947.--Panam2014 (talk) 21:44, 12 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Panam2014: i think 1942 is the right because there is a lot of international and local newspapers sources agree with that and I think we should do as they did. sorry for delay--Elbasyouny (talk) 08:55, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Elbasyouny: no, here. --Panam2014 (talk) 12:49, 13 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Afash[edit]

@Davidbena, أبو تائب, and Emir of Wikipedia: Afash is his mother's name or a nickname ? --Panam2014 (talk) 17:03, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I do not know much about the name Afash, but my understanding is that Ali Abdullah Saleh was also known by the name Ali Afash. Most-likely, it was used along with "Saleh - Afash," to distinguish the one Saleh family from another Saleh family, since there are many Saleh families in Yemen, and not all are directly related.Davidbena (talk) 18:28, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Davidbena: hi, Saleh and his family, and yemeni national use the Afash name to talk about Saleh and his family. I have added the full name in the "early life" section. --Panam2014 (talk) 20:12, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I'm sorry, but I lived in Yemen for more than one year, and in ALL the news media outlets, including newspapers, he is mentioned only as Ali Abdallah Saleh. The other clan-names are not important, especially not in this article, unless mentioned as a side-note in a sub-paragraph.Davidbena (talk) 21:01, 10 February 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Zaydi[edit]

@Davidbena, أبو تائب, and Emir of Wikipedia: Do we have any proof that Saleh was at the end of his life from zaydi faith, or is he just coming from a zaydi family and tribe ? --Panam2014 (talk) 17:05, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

I only know that President Ali Abdullah Saleh was from the largest clan in Yemen, the Hashid clan, from the family, Bayt al-Ahmar. The second largest clan in Yemen is the Bakil clan. I do not know Saleh's religious affiliation, but I would think that it is like the majority of his tribesmen.Davidbena (talk) 18:24, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Davidbena: On the infobox, he is described as Zaydi, but the link is dead because his site has been closed. Then I find the cached version of the page, which will soon disappear and based on these three videos. Does any of these videos describe him as zaydi? Could you check it ? [6], [7], [8] --Panam2014 (talk) 18:35, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
When I asked friends about this, they said that he belonged to the Zaidi (Zaydi), but he was tolerant about others and was not fanatically motivated one way or the other.Davidbena (talk) 19:30, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Davidbena:Okay thank you very much, interesting. If not, the interview says what?--Panam2014 (talk) 20:43, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The interview speaks on different topics.Davidbena (talk) 21:14, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Davidbena:He does not talk about his origins?--Panam2014 (talk) 21:42, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The narrator speaks about his upbringing in a certain village. He speaks a little about his Quranic education as a child.Davidbena (talk) 22:26, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Davidbena: so no mention to his faith if he is zaydi? --Panam2014 (talk) 22:46, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I recall no such thing. But when I asked friends about this, they said that he belonged to the Zaydi sect.Davidbena (talk) 22:53, 11 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Moderate president and dictator[edit]

it's not impossible for some people to say that he is a dictator and others to say he was a moderate. however, I feel it is jarring to see him atributed both in the intro. Perhaps it would be better to attribute who describes as which. Munci (talk) 19:03, 29 January 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It looks like "moderate" was removed because there was no source for it, although it shouldn't be too hard to find such a description in US media. However I agree that we should clearly attribute such subjective descriptions to sources. Augurar (talk) 16:40, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Terminology regarding War on Terror[edit]

Hi, it seems a minor edit conflict is brewing regarding the wording of a sentence in this article. The sentence in question currently reads:

Long considered a moderate president, he oversaw his country's development of deeper ties with Western powers, especially the United States, in its "War on Terror".

Another editor seems to be repeatedly trying to change the phrase "War on Terror" to: "fight against terrorism". It seems that using the official name is more neutral since it does not presume any particular motivations for these actions.

Please comment if you agree/disagree with this reasoning. Thanks! Augurar (talk) 06:56, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Augurar:, may I remind you that you're restoring an edit that you made with a blocked IP sock ([9][10][11]), and looking at the range's contributions it seems this is an edit pattern that includes other topics. I went ahead and removed the quotation marks for neutrality since I personally don't disagree with the term War on Terror, although as far as I know this is a term mostly used for the United States, while the article states "deeper ties with Western powers". I ignore the motivation to add the original "fight against terrorism", if there was any. I only ask you to be careful and more transparent with your edits, as this can be seen as block evasion and gaming the system. Cheers. --Jamez42 (talk) 15:59, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Jamez42, the quotes are necessary for neutrality since "War on Terror" is the US's official state terminology and not an objective description of the conflict. I went ahead and fixed your edit. Thanks for trying to help though! Augurar (talk) 16:29, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

North Yemen Presidency[edit]

Can someone add more informatiom we need to improve it Billythekidgun (talk) 13:47, 21 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

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