Talk:2023 Huwara shooting

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Is this about the shooting or the shooting and the riots?[edit]

@Selfstudier: The shooting and the riots are linked. So the article talks about both. So the title should include both. The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 08:58, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I am removing the material with a different scope. There is also no connection with the Nablus incursion. Selfstudier (talk) 09:01, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

To see what I mean, why don't you do an article on the settler rioting (not just in Huwara) and the Palestinian death, injuries and property damage. Selfstudier (talk) 09:05, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I mean, the CNN made a connection between the incursion, the shooting and the riots. The WSJ connects the shooting and the riots, although it admittedly doesn't talk about the incursion. The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 09:08, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The riots occurred the same day. It's in every source. Triggerhippie4 (talk) 09:08, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Temporal bias, also not only in Huwara. Selfstudier (talk) 09:11, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Mentioning different events does not a "connection" make. It needs to be shown that one led to another. Here we don't even know who the shooter was (but he is said to have worn a lions den t,??? Duh I could wear one.) Selfstudier (talk) 09:13, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If the riots were simply described as riots, then temporal bias might be a valid argument. But they're clearly being referred to as revenge attacks: [1] [2] [3] [4]. The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 09:17, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The riots and death of one Palestinian (plus wounded/ property damage etc are WP:OOS). I can say that the 1917 Balfour Declaration caused all this if I want to make "connections". Selfstudier (talk) 09:27, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"I can say" - You can, but RS did not make the connection, so we don't say that in the article. But when RS do make the connection, (don't say they have to say "because of A, B happened" - i've replied to that above) we have to mention it in the article. The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 09:31, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I can produce RS with all sorts of connections, until scholarly RS look back and say....it's just newsfiller. Selfstudier (talk) 09:34, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It seems like common sense to me - A shooting that kills two Israelis, so a bunch of Israeli settlers riot (yes it isn't only in Huwara, but that's where most of the drama happened, with 98 injuries: [5]. Therefore, they are connected. QED. The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 09:40, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Huuwara is frequently in the news because it's the main route (60) through for settlers and there is a checkpoint. I can provide you with a source saying that, does that make everything that happens there "connected"? Selfstudier (talk) 09:43, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

By the way this article is arguing that the Nablus incursion is "connected" as well. I took it out and it has been reverted back in. Selfstudier (talk) 09:45, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Attacks by settlers are frequently described as List of Israeli price tag attacks, we don't have to believe that, in the last weeks Israeli settlers have been carrying out attacks on a daily basis. Selfstudier (talk) 09:29, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Well that's a list doomed to forever incompletion if ever I saw one. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:31, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

From the level of coverage, surely both would likely be appropriate? A summary of the rioting here and a main link to a separate article on the rioting. Regardless of their interconnectedness, they are not one event that should be both hosted in full on the same page - that would simply be a dual subject and ultimately doomed to produce a confusing mess. Iskandar323 (talk) 09:28, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I actually don't think any of these deserve an article but I can't stop people creating them. If this one is to be created then we need the rioting article separately. Selfstudier (talk) 09:32, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

International media is weighing in now, so ... Iskandar323 (talk) 10:43, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

There is a lot of coverage for the rioting (and condemnations left and right). Selfstudier (talk) 10:50, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don't think the riots are notable enough for a stand-alone article. Nor the shooting really. Each of them is "notable because of the other" in my opinion. The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 09:33, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Both events seem notable, and are getting international coverage. Cheers. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 04:47, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Car ramming[edit]

Latest from CNN "Video from the scene showed that their car had crossed a median, and hit a vehicle going the other direction, suggesting they were shot while driving." ie no car ramming. Would someone please change this. Selfstudier (talk) 17:16, 27 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done. The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 04:57, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, car ramming is still there in a couple places, lead, info box? Selfstudier (talk) 09:52, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Oops, didn't notice these. I'm pretty sure it's

Done now. The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 09:59, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Great, last one, there is a cat for vehicular attacks. Selfstudier (talk) 10:04, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done. I've checked it thrice this time :) The ⬡ Bestagon ^T/_C 11:39, 28 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Relevance tag in Background section[edit]

The Nablus incursion is mentioned in the context of the shooting in multiple sources.

The Guardian: "Sunday’s shooting in Hawara came days after an Israeli military raid killed 12 Palestinians in the nearby city of Nablus, and in the midst of the bloodiest year on record since the last Palestinian intifada, or uprising, since the 2000s."

France24: "The violence came days after Israeli forces launched their deadliest West Bank raid in nearly 20 years, which claimed the lives of 11 Palestinians in the nearby city of Nablus."

CNN:"The shooting of the settlers took place in Huwara, south of Nablus in the Israeli-occupied West Bank, just days after a massive Israeli military raid into Nablus in search of wanted militants left at least 11 Palestinians dead."

PBS: "Sunday’s shooting in Hawara came days after an Israeli military raid killed 10 Palestinians in the nearby city of Nablus. The shooting occurred on a major highway that serves both Palestinians and Israeli settlers. The two men who were killed were identified as brothers, ages 21 and 19, from the Jewish settlement of Har Bracha."

Haaretz: "Following the attack, Gaza Strip-based Hamas said that the "Hawara operation is a natural response to the occupation's crimes, the latest of which was the Nablus massacre," referring to the Israeli raid last week which killed 12 Palestinians and injured over one hundred others. "The resistance in the West Bank will stay steady," he warned. The Palestinian Islamic Jihad, meanwhile, dubbed the shooting a "strong message to the summit in Aqaba." Mooonswimmer 00:36, 3 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Claimed perpetrator[edit]

An editor has added back claims about the shooter being Palestinian and naming a name... but is sourcing it to sources that only refer to him as suspected. This is both an accuracy and a WP:BDP concern. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 01:32, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, all of the sources, including those most recently added, still all seem to say suspect(ed). Iskandar323 (talk) 05:18, 21 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Biased statement[edit]

The article currently includes "No Palestinian faction claimed responsibility for the shooting", but the article cited only said that "no group" had claimed responsibility, and did not try to point fingers at some presumption of who could be responsible. I suggest that this statement be corrected to match the source. -- Nat Gertler (talk) 18:33, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree and have made the change. If that's what the source says, anything else is editorializing. Iskandar323 (talk) 19:08, 11 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]