Talk:2012 24 Hours of Le Mans

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B Class Assessment[edit]

In order to achieve B class the article, in my opinion, needs the following:

  • More details about the race itself. The parts about qualifying are excellent. Also the listings of who finished in what place during qualifying and the race are excellent. More summary is definitely needed about the race though.
  • More supporting material. Specifically pictures if possible.

--Sabre ball t c 15:54, 20 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Car #79[edit]

Why does the results list Darren Law as the driver in car #79 when official results state it was Patrick Pilet? --Falcadore (talk) 07:05, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It must have been a change that I forgot to make to my copy of the results before pasting it into the article. This source lists Law as a non-starter, so he must have been listed with the team at an earlier time and then Pilet substituted for him. The359 (Talk) 07:39, 29 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Corvette C6.R[edit]

Now, to further explain the errors in the FIA/ACO entry lists from 2012. The entry lists for LMGTE cars in the World Endurance Championship as published by the FIA/ACO have a knack for listing the homologated road car on which the racing car is based. As you note, the entry list has a "Chevrolet Corvette C6-ZR1" because the LMGTE Corvette C6.R is homologated on the ZR1 Corvette to differentiate it from the old GT1 class Corvette C6.R based on the Z06 Corvette. The race car is however a C6.R. Note the sidepods and rear of the car where it is labeled C6.R, and has no mention of ZR1.

Sounds a bit like Original Research. Images should not be used to guess what a car is called (also, even if they could, that image is from 2010). The ACO, who organise the race, publish the name of the car as supplied to them by the teams and/or manufacturers. These race cars are nothing to do with road cars, they are completely different, and don't need to follow the same naming conventions. We can only go by officially published sources, not racingsportscars.com or anywhere else.
Images can be used as sources. Please find me a policy that states otherwise.
You also confuse my explanation of road cars. All LMGTE race cars must be homologated on a road going model. The Corvette C6.R race car is homologated on the Corvette ZR1 road car. The FIA/ACO are listing the road car on which the race car is homologated, just the same as the Ferrari and Aston Martin. Here is a list of FIA homologations, including former GT1 and GT2 class cars, listed by the name of their production car, despite the racing cars having different names. The ACO are not publishing the names given to them, they are publishing the names of the homologation files they have on record.
Finally, Corvette Racing clearly states "Based on the Corvette ZR1 supercar, the Corvette C6.R has strong links to the production version of America's performance icon. The GT rules require the use of many production-based components, expanding the opportunities for the two-way transfer of technology between the race track and the showroom. The Corvette C6.R utilizes the ZR1's body design, aerodynamic package, aluminum frame and chassis structure, steering system, windshield, and other components. The race team has prepared the cars for the rigors of endurance racing with safety and performance modifications as permitted by the rulebook."

Also note that the FIA/ACO entry list has a "Ferrari 458 Italia". Per Ferrari, the racing model is called Ferrari 458 Italia GT2. Also note the "Aston Martin Vantage V8", which is the road car, while Aston Martin Racing refers to it as the Vantage GTE.

The point is, what the FIA/ACO is listing is not the name of the race car. We list the correct name of the race car. We have absolutely no requirement to copy the FIA/ACO's scheme for referencing a race car. The359 (Talk) 05:06, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

I sent the IP editor a picture of one of the cars, clear showing it's C6R badge. --Falcadore (talk) 06:20, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
He's changed IPs a few times, so I thought it best to post it here. The359 (Talk) 06:26, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]
As an addition, the IP's documentation says "Chevrolet Corvette C6-ZR1", but the editor keeps changing the article to say "Chevrolet Corvette C6.R ZR1." The C6-based ZR1 is a road car. The C6.R is a race car. You seem to be mixing the two names together incorrectly.
And finally, Corvette Racing's overview of the C6.R. The359 (Talk) 18:44, 24 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

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GA Review[edit]

GA toolbox
Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:2012 24 Hours of Le Mans/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Epicgenius (talk · contribs) 03:59, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]


Wow, this has been there for a while. Also looks like a pretty long article. I'll highlight major issues below. epicgenius (talk) 03:59, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

GA review
(see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose, spelling, and grammar):
    b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references):
    b (citations to reliable sources):
    c (OR):
    d (copyvio and plagiarism):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects):
    b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales):
    b (appropriate use with suitable captions):

Overall:
Pass/Fail:

· · ·


Prose and coverage[edit]

Will check this on Monday.

@MWright96: Here are my initial comments.

Lead

  • with 30 of the race's 56 entries contesting the championship - Does "contesting" in this case mean competing?
    • In this case, yes it does mean competing? MWright96 (talk) 17:52, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • OK, that makes sense because in America "contesting" something would mean to lodge an objection against it. epicgenius (talk) 18:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • Is there a wiki link to "test day"?
    • No. A wikilink for test day does not exist at present MWright96 (talk) 17:52, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • The car ran without trouble in the opening hours of the race until a Toyota TS030 Hybrid shared by Alexander Wurz, Kazuki Nakajima and Nicolas Lapierre overtook it for the lead that it relinquished during a safety car period for circuit personnel to tend to a major accident at the start of the sixth hour - this is a pretty long sentence. Any way to condense this?

Background

Regulation changes

  • With the introduction of hybrid electric vehicles for the first time at the 24 Hours of Le Mans, the ACO and the world governing body of motor racing - So hybrid electric vehicles were never used in previous 24 Hours of Le Mans races? Or was this the first time hybrid vehicles were allowed at any motor race, ever?
    • It means the 2012 24 Hours of Le Mans was the first time in the history of the race that hybrid electric cars drove in it MWright96 (talk) 17:52, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • Thanks for the explanation, that makes sense. epicgenius (talk) 18:19, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Automatic entries

  • in the both the American Le Mans Series and Le Mans Series. - typo
  • Peugeot Sport chose not to accept their automatic invitation as the manufacturer withdrew from sports car racing in January 2012 due to financial difficulties - Since this came after the announcement, I don't think "as the" (as in "as the manufacturer withdrew") is quite the right wording here.

Entry list

  • 56 car entry list and nine vehicle - Is it 56-car and nine-vehicle?

Garage 56

  • So this refers to the 56th car on the entry list, if I'm reading this right.
  • The extremely lightweight car features a unique layout that is far removed from the style of Le Mans Prototypes. - I don't doubt that it's unique, but "unique" is one of the MOS's words to watch, so I'd use it very carefully (or find another word).
  • Two other entries had been granted reserve status if the DeltaWing team withdrew; - the semicolon at the end should probably be a colon.

Reserves

  • accumulating the necessary budget - as an American, "budget" sounds weird to me. Would this be the maintenance/operations fund, the entry fee, or something else?
    • It was the money need to run the team (i.e. hire staff such as mechanics and drivers) MWright96 (talk) 20:32, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Testing and practice

  • Duval set the fastest time in the first session with a lap of 3 minutes and 27.738 seconds in the No. 3 Audi R18 Ultra,[20] but McNish improved to a lap of 3 minutes and 25.927 seconds in the No. 2 Audi R18 e-tron quattro though he crashed at Tertre Rouge corner with one hour remaining and was unable to continue.[21] - I get the feeling this is a run-on sentence.
  • with a 3 minutes and 39.669 seconds lap - is it "3-minute and 39.669-second"?

More later. epicgenius (talk) 18:08, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the prompt replies. I will leave more comments when I get home in several hours. epicgenius (talk) 20:58, 3 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
@MWright96: Have a little more time to look at it now, so here goes. epicgenius (talk) 16:47, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Qualifying

  • The first of three two hour qualifying sessions - this doesn't look right, did you mean "two-hour qualifying sessions"?
  • followed by Kristensen overtaking Jarvis - after the first few minutes?
  • Weather conditions continued to be clear for the second session on 14 June. - If I'm understanding this correctly, did this start in the early hours of 13 June and then continued for at least another day? Or did it start in the late hours of 13 June, and this was only several hours long? If it's the former, I'm not sure that the wording "continued to be clear" is right.
  • Lotterer in the No. 1 R18 e-tron quattro set a new fastest lap of 3 minutes and 23.787 seconds thirteen minutes in - also a little confusing, I think you meant that the record occurred 13 minutes after the start of the third session.

Qualifying results

  • Nothing wrong here. Actually, this makes the previous section a lot clearer.

Warm-up

  • Jarvis' No. 4 Audi was fourth, the quickest Toyota was fifth after a time from Wurz and his teammate Sarrazin was sixth. - I don't quite understand this either. It's probably missing a comma somewhere, unless this is supposed to be a serial list, in which case the wording needs to be improved.

More later. epicgenius (talk) 16:47, 5 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Start

  • The conditions on the grid were dry and sunny before the race with an air temperature between 10.5 to 21 °C (50.9 to 69.8 °F) and the track temperature ranged from 15.5 to 26 °C (59.9 to 78.8 °F) - the second half of the sentence doesn't sound right. I suggest you replace the track temperature ranged from with "a track temperature between", similar to the phrasing for air temperature.
  • Light rain fell on the north section of the track though it was not heavy enough to affect the race - I suggest replacing it was not heavy enough to affect the race with "it did not affect the race". I think readers can probably assume that light rain wasn't heavy, unless there is something I'm missing.
  • The hour had the first retirement with the No. 29 Gulf Racing Middle East Lola sustaining a broken front-left wheel alignment from an accident leaving the Porsche Curves by Rostan as the No. 79 Flying Lizard of Pilet and later Spencer Pumpelly took a clear lead in LMGTE Am after the No. 99 Aston Martin of Simonsen developed a misfire - I am slightly confused, since there are no commas to set off the sentence.
  • LMGTE Pro continued to be close battle - a close battle?
  • I just realized I never asked what lapping means. I might just be ignorant, or else this is a bit of jargon.
    • Added a wikilink to racing flags because that it is where it is mentioned MWright96 (talk) 18:51, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
  • 26 minutes and 34 seconds pit stop - should be singular, e.g. "26-minute and 34-second"; or else have "pit stop of 26 minutes and 34 seconds"

Evening to night

  • Davidson was found to have fractured the T11 and T12 vertebrae - This is in passive voice, but in my opinion, it may be better in active voice.
  • Toyota lost its one remaining entry when the No. 7 car retired after 10½ hours with an engine failure - I don't have any problem with this, just noting how Toyota sucked badly in this race. Overall this section is very engaging to read.


Morning to early afternoon

  • when Makowiecki's Luxury Racing Ferrari picked up a right-rear puncture and forcing the team's mechanics to replace it. - "Picked up" and "forcing" are different verb forms. It should be either "picked up a right-rear puncture and forced the team's mechanics" or "picked up a right-rear puncture, forcing the team's mechanics".
  • crashed heavily in the Porsche Curves and sending the car facing in the opposite direction - same issue as above, with "crashed" and "sending"
  • fifth class victory, first class win - just a question. Is it a fifth instance of a "class victory"/"class win", or a victory in the "fifth class"? Same question with third class victory, etc.

Finish

  • the first hybrid electric vehicle to win the 24 Hour race,[5] and the first for a four-wheel drivetrain - this does not sound right either, because if you eliminate the first phrase, you have the [first for a four-wheel drivetrain] to win the 24 Hour race. I suggest "the first four-wheel drivetrain to do so" or something similar.

Post-race

  • We were not looking for an aggressive start and leading for 10 minutes.I know - This needs a space after a period, even in direct (verbal) quotes.

Championship standings after the race

  • All good.

@MWright96: These are all my prose comments for now. epicgenius (talk) 17:52, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

POV[edit]

Seems neutral to me.

Sources[edit]

Haven't looked at these closely yet, but I see no blatantly disallowed sources or citation needed tags.

  • Most references seem OK, as they are either reputable newspapers/magazines or specialize in racing coverage.
  • My only issue is with HuffPost. What makes HuffPost a reliable source? epicgenius (talk) 17:54, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • Replaced it with a source from The Daily Telegraph MWright96 (talk) 18:51, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Images[edit]

  • No problems here. All images are either from Flickr with appropriate license, are self published with appropriate license, or are flag icons. epicgenius (talk) 03:59, 2 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Epicgenius: Been more than ten days since the last comments were posted? Anything else that will need to be addressed? MWright96 (talk) 14:15, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
      • @MWright96: Sorry about that, I totally forgot about this review. Will post more comments today. epicgenius (talk) 16:53, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
        • @Epicgenius: Have made further changes to the article. What else needs to be addressing? MWright96 (talk) 18:51, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
          • @MWright96: I will take a further look but it seems like this is ready for GA status. epicgenius (talk) 18:54, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
            • @MWright96: I didn't find any other problems. Congratulations, this is now a good article. I will be promoting this shortly. epicgenius (talk) 20:09, 16 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Cwmhiraeth (talk) 07:05, 29 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]

(
)

* ... that the 2012 24 Hours of Le Mans saw the first overall victory for a hybrid electric vehicle at the 24 hour race? Source: Audi is first manufacturer to take Le Mans 24 Hours race with hybrid - The Guardian & The 80th 24 hours of Le Mans in numbers - ACO

** ALT1:... that the 2012 24 Hours of Le Mans saw the first overall win for a non-permanent four-wheel drivetrain car at the 24 hour race? Source: The 80th 24 hours of Le Mans in numbers - ACO

Improved to Good Article status by MWright96 (talk). Self-nominated at 08:00, 17 February 2020 (UTC).[reply]


General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
QPQ: Done.
Overall: A splendid article with an interesting and topical hook. Gog the Mild (talk) 14:29, 17 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
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