Talk:New York City: Difference between revisions
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* Moved "New York City is the most expensive city in the world for [[expatriate]]s to live." from fourth to second paragraph. It makes sense as the fourth paragraph is about NYC's economy and the second paragraph is about NYC's population. |
* Moved "New York City is the most expensive city in the world for [[expatriate]]s to live." from fourth to second paragraph. It makes sense as the fourth paragraph is about NYC's economy and the second paragraph is about NYC's population. |
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- [[User:CactiStaccingCrane|CactiStaccingCrane]] ([[User talk:CactiStaccingCrane|talk]]) 04:41, 17 December 2023 (UTC) |
- [[User:CactiStaccingCrane|CactiStaccingCrane]] ([[User talk:CactiStaccingCrane|talk]]) 04:41, 17 December 2023 (UTC) |
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**The cutting is done. It's been cut even after Remsense had made their comments above. It's been cut several times, and now we're down to bone. You in particular don't have NYC topic experience and clearly have no idea what you're doing. I know you've tried this before, but unfortunately, despite your good faith efforts I'm sure, you do a very poor job every time, and this time is no different. This article is about the most complex city in the world, and so yes, all around it will be longer. Much simpler and much more homogeneous cities like Hanoi, for example, can have leads half this long. Not NYC. [[User:Castncoot|Castncoot]] ([[User talk:Castncoot|talk]]) 03:15, 18 December 2023 (UTC) |
Revision as of 03:15, 18 December 2023
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the New York City article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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1. Was Manhattan Island really bought for a very small amount of currency (be it $24, one string of wampum, etc.)?
No. Charles Gehring, Director of the New Netherland Project, explains this myth in a video (skip ahead to 3:03) by the New York State Museum. In it, he says, "This is one of the biggest myths...pure fabrication. It says in the records that it was 60 guilders worth of goods. 60 guilders worth of goods would have been a lot of hard goods that the Indians couldn't produce themselves. You couldn't place a price on the...things that they were unable to make, the things they didn't have the technology for. The $24 figure was attached to the document when it was translated in the 1880s. The translators looked up the rate of exchange at the time and 60 guilders was $24. Nobody has ever even adjusted that for inflation over the years, so you not only have an incorrect rate of exchange, but the whole idea of what 60 guilders would have been worth to the Indians at the time is totally wrong."
Keepin' it real: The greatest deal in history never actually was. 2. Why is New York City classified as having a humid subtropical climate?
According to NOAA's 1981–2010 normals, Central Park in Manhattan has a January daily average temperature of 32.6 °F (0.3 °C) and in July, this figure is 76.5 °F (24.7 °C). This, in combination with its generous annual precipitation of 49.9 inches (1,270 mm) means the city itself falls under the humid subtropical regime of the Köppen climate classification (see this map). Locations in this regime in general do not have winter snow cover that is reliable enough to augment cold air masses; the "subtropical" designator is only part of the climate type's name and does not mean that the city (or the surrounding region) is in the subtropics, nor that winters here are mild. |
This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
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Artificial intelligence
A claim has been added to the article a few times now that NYC has a "significant influence on ... artificial intelligence". The problem with this is that it's based only on the existence of a plan for AI - this plan may or may not eventually result in this claim coming to fruition, but for the moment the claim is lacking in evidence. Nikkimaria (talk) 22:40, 9 November 2023 (UTC)
Race and ethnicity
For those of us playing along at home, @Castncoot:, where was the "compromise to leave this section as is"? Of the −27,682 bytes removed on November 2, Chronus re-added only +2,596. You've now somehow reintroduced +23,303 bytes with your classic WP:OWNERSHIP-style "Kindly I beg you to let Chronus and me deal with this section" edit summary. Seasider53 (talk) 06:44, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
- Actually Seasider53, I can play along as well. First, please do look the paragraph by Chronus before your comment in the Talk:New York City#Images section above. Chronus and I agreed to compromise by maintaining the Race and Ethnicity status as is. Then, note that even I made many more comments than Chronus after Nikkimedia came in and recklessly gutted the section, and it even took me many days to recover from that shock to the system to reflect and finally decide the right thing to do. When an edit shocks the system, one is not always able to respond in kind immediately, nobody wants to retaliate or start an edit war. You just sort of accept it glumly for the time being until you have your moment of realization. And finally, I don't want ownership; just competence with the very narrow and specific matter at hand, which in this case is this extremely critical section, which is not a broad statement about any editor whatsoever. Castncoot (talk) 20:00, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
- Okay, auditioning for a thriller novel aside, are you willing to discuss the merits of your inclusion when other editors seem to have an issue with it? These harsh removals cut me deep, man won’t really cut it as reasoning. Seasider53 (talk) 22:52, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Seasider53: These harsh, INCOMPETENT removals cut me deep, man. There, fixed it for you. Castncoot (talk) 01:18, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Castncoot@Seasider53@Nikkimaria Can we work together on a shorter version of the current text? Chronus (talk) 02:10, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Okay, auditioning for a thriller novel aside, are you willing to discuss the merits of your inclusion when other editors seem to have an issue with it? These harsh removals cut me deep, man won’t really cut it as reasoning. Seasider53 (talk) 22:52, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
- Sure. Here's a proposal. Nikkimaria (talk) 02:23, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
Proposal A
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The city's population in 2020 was 30.9% White (non-Hispanic), 28.7% Hispanic or Latino, 20.2% Black or African American (non-Hispanic), 15.6% Asian, and 0.2% Native American (non-Hispanic). A total of 3.4% of the non-Hispanic population identified with more than one race.[3] In 2013, approximately 36% of the city's population is foreign born,[4] and more than half of all children are born to mothers who are immigrants. Throughout its history, New York has been a major port of entry for immigrants into the United States.[5][6] In New York, no single country or region of origin dominates.[5] The ten largest sources of foreign-born individuals in the city as of 2011[update] were the Dominican Republic, China, Mexico, Guyana, Jamaica, Ecuador, Haiti, India, Russia, and Trinidad and Tobago,[7] Queens has the largest Asian American and Andean populations in the United States, and is also the most ethnically and linguistically diverse urban area in the world.[8][9] New York City has the largest European and non-Hispanic white population of any American city, with 2.7 million in 2012.[10] The European diaspora residing in the city is very diverse and many European ethnic groups have formed enclaves in New York.[11][12][13] More than 12 million European immigrants were received at Ellis Island between 1892 and 1954.[14] Asian Americans in New York City, according to the 2010 census, number more than one million, greater than the combined totals of San Francisco and Los Angeles.[15] New York contains the highest total Asian population of any U.S. city proper.[16] The Manhattan's Chinatown is the highest concentration of Chinese people in the Western Hemisphere,[1] while Queens is home to the largest Tibetan population outside Asia.[17] Arab Americans number over 160,000 in New York City,[18] with the highest concentration in Brooklyn. Central Asians, primarily Uzbek Americans, are a rapidly growing segment of the city's non-Hispanic White population.[19] New York is also home to the highest Jewish population of any city in the world, numbering 1.6 million in 2022, more than Tel Aviv and Jerusalem combined.[20] In the borough of Brooklyn, an estimated 1 in 4 residents is Jewish.[21] References
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- Seems fine to me, with a couple of minor tweaks (I don't know if 1 in 4 is better expressed as a quarter, for example). Seasider53 (talk) 11:46, 13 November 2023 (UTC)
- Seasider53: These harsh, INCOMPETENT removals cut me deep, man. You're just as incompetent as Nikkimaria with regards to this section if you didn't even recognize that they just fundamentally COPY-PASTED their previous version here and tried to pass it off as something new! Without even fixing any aforementioned flaws! It's terrible and totally unprofessional, and looks like a kid in primary school could have done this. Misses the point and demonstrates a complete lack of topic experience. And perhaps most glaringly of all, just fundamentally wiped out the presence of approaching 3 MILLION Latin Americans in the city. And you didn't even notice this, Seasider53?? And this is supposed to instill trust and confidence in you, Seasider53? Is it really too much to ask for competence at the slight expense of perhaps a slight amount of inclusivity? At what point does quality actually matter over simply checking some boxes in terms of article length when the result is just plain HORRIBLE??? Why even bother having an article then? Castncoot (talk) 01:18, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- Now on to a more serious and more trustworthy editor with regards to this section, namely Chronus, (who lives in Brazil btw and has impressively gained more topic experience about New York simply by taking the initiative to do so!): How about we take each paragraph Chronus as is currently and truncate each paragraph to preserve most of the important points that each paragraph is trying to convey? This way we preserve most of the most salient points and address each major ethic group with the appropriate weight it deserves. Would you like to give it a try first Chronus, then maybe I can modify it and we can go through a couple of iterations here on this page before we post the final version on the main page? If other editors could respect this, we can actually accomplish this without disruption, since too many cooks adding salt at roughly the same time spoil the broth, as they say. And then once it's posted on the main page, it's obviously a free-for-all in abidance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. Castncoot (talk) 01:18, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
- It sounds like, through consensus, we can put the new text into the article. If anyone does happen to take issue with it, we can always discuss. Seasider53 (talk) 11:05, 14 November 2023 (UTC)
@Castncoot, Seasider53, and Nikkimaria: Hey guys. What do you think of the proposal below:
Proposal B
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Race and ethnicityThe city's population in 2020 was 30.9% White (non-Hispanic), 28.7% Hispanic or Latino, 20.2% Black or African American (non-Hispanic), 15.6% Asian, and 0.2% Native American (non-Hispanic). A total of 3.4% of the non-Hispanic population identified with more than one race.[3] In 2013, approximately 36% of the city's population is foreign born,[4] and more than half of all children are born to mothers who are immigrants. Throughout its history, New York has been a major port of entry for immigrants into the United States.[5][6] In New York, no single country or region of origin dominates.[5] The ten largest sources of foreign-born individuals in the city as of 2011[update] were the Dominican Republic, China, Mexico, Guyana, Jamaica, Ecuador, Haiti, India, Russia, and Trinidad and Tobago,[7] Queens has the largest Asian American and Andean populations in the United States, and is also the most ethnically and linguistically diverse urban area in the world.[8][9] The metropolitan area is home to 20% of the nation's Indian Americans and at least 20 Little India enclaves, and 15% of all Korean Americans and four Koreatowns;[10] the largest Asian Indian population in the Western Hemisphere; the largest Russian American,[11] Italian American, and African American populations; the largest Dominican American, Puerto Rican American, and South American[11] and second-largest overall Hispanic population in the United States, numbering 4.8 million;[12] and includes multiple established Chinatowns within New York City alone.[13] New York City has the largest European and non-Hispanic white population of any American city, with 2.7 million in 2012.[14] The European diaspora residing in the city is very diverse and many European ethnic groups have formed enclaves in New York.[15][16][17] More than 12 million European immigrants were received at Ellis Island between 1892 and 1954.[18] Asian Americans in New York City, according to the 2010 census, number more than one million, greater than the combined totals of San Francisco and Los Angeles.[19] New York contains the highest total Asian population of any U.S. city proper.[20] The Manhattan's Chinatown is the highest concentration of Chinese people in the Western Hemisphere,[1] while Queens is home to the largest Tibetan population outside Asia.[21] Arab Americans number over 160,000 in New York City,[22] with the highest concentration in Brooklyn. Central Asians, primarily Uzbek Americans, are a rapidly growing segment of the city's non-Hispanic White population.[23] New York is also home to the highest Jewish population of any city in the world, numbering 1.6 million in 2022, more than Tel Aviv and Jerusalem combined.[24] In the borough of Brooklyn, an estimated 1 in 4 residents is Jewish.[25] Venezuela, Ecuador, Colombia, Guyana, Peru, and Brazil, are the top source countries from South America for immigrants to the New York City region; the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Haiti, and Trinidad and Tobago in the Caribbean; Nigeria, Egypt, Ghana, Tanzania, Kenya, and South Africa from Africa; and El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala in Central America.[26] Amidst a resurgence of Puerto Rican migration to New York City, this population had increased to approximately 1.5 million in the metropolitan area as of 2016[update].[27] Since 2010, Little Australia has emerged and is growing rapidly, representing the Australasian presence in Nolita, Manhattan.[28][29][30][31] In 2011, there were an estimated 20,000 Australian residents of New York City, nearly quadruple the 5,537 in 2005.[32][33] Qantas Airways of Australia and Air New Zealand have been planning for long-haul flights from New York to Sydney and Auckland, which would both rank among the longest non-stop flights in the world.[34] References
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Chronus (talk) 22:25, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
- There's quite a bit of repetition in it - between the second and second-last paragraph, and again between the third and fifth. How about this version? Nikkimaria (talk) 22:49, 16 November 2023 (UTC)
Proposal C
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Race and ethnicityThe city's population in 2020 was 30.9% White (non-Hispanic), 28.7% Hispanic or Latino, 20.2% Black or African American (non-Hispanic), 15.6% Asian, and 0.2% Native American (non-Hispanic). A total of 3.4% of the non-Hispanic population identified with more than one race.[3] As of 2013[update], approximately 36% of the city's population is foreign born,[4] and more than half of all children are born to mothers who are immigrants. Throughout its history, New York has been a major port of entry for immigrants into the United States.[5][6] No single country or region of origin dominates.[5] The ten largest sources of foreign-born individuals in the city as of 2011[update] were the Dominican Republic, China, Mexico, Guyana, Jamaica, Ecuador, Haiti, India, Russia, and Trinidad and Tobago,[7] The metropolitan area has the largest Asian Indian population in the Western Hemisphere; the largest Russian American,[8] Italian American, and African American populations; the largest Dominican American, Puerto Rican American, and South American[8] and second-largest overall Hispanic population in the United States, numbering 4.8 million.[9] Amidst a resurgence of Puerto Rican migration to New York City, this population had increased to approximately 1.5 million as of 2016[update].[10] Queens has the largest Asian American and Andean populations in the United States, and is also the most ethnically and linguistically diverse urban area in the world.[11][12] New York contains the highest total Asian population of any U.S. city proper.[13] Asian Americans in New York City, according to the 2010 census, number more than one million, greater than the combined totals of San Francisco and Los Angeles.[14] Manhattan's Chinatown is the highest concentration of Chinese people in the Western Hemisphere,[1] while Queens is home to the largest Tibetan population outside Asia.[15] Arab Americans number over 160,000 in New York City,[16] with the highest concentration in Brooklyn. Central Asians, primarily Uzbek Americans, are a rapidly growing segment of the city's non-Hispanic White population.[17] The metropolitan area is home to 20% of the nation's Indian Americans and at least 20 Little India enclaves, and 15% of all Korean Americans and four Koreatowns.[18] New York City has the largest European and non-Hispanic white population of any American city, with 2.7 million in 2012.[19] The European diaspora residing in the city is very diverse and many European ethnic groups have formed enclaves.[20][21][22] New York is also home to the highest Jewish population of any city in the world, numbering 1.6 million in 2022, more than Tel Aviv and Jerusalem combined.[23] In the borough of Brooklyn, an estimated one in four residents is Jewish.[24] References
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- @Nikkimaria There is no repetition. The second paragraph talks about the biggest countries of origin of immigrants, while the penultimate paragraph talks about the biggest emitters of emigrants by continent. The third paragraph addresses the metropolitan region. Chronus (talk) 00:04, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Castncoot, Seasider53, Nikkimaria, and Moxy: What do you think this proposal: Chronus (talk) 00:12, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
Proposal D
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Race and ethnicityThe city's population in 2020 was 30.9% White (non-Hispanic), 28.7% Hispanic or Latino, 20.2% Black or African American (non-Hispanic), 15.6% Asian, and 0.2% Native American (non-Hispanic). A total of 3.4% of the non-Hispanic population identified with more than one race.[3] In 2013, approximately 36% of the city's population is foreign born,[4] and more than half of all children are born to mothers who are immigrants. Throughout its history, New York has been a major port of entry for immigrants into the United States.[5][6] In New York, no single country or region of origin dominates.[5] The ten largest sources of foreign-born individuals in the city as of 2011[update] were the Dominican Republic, China, Mexico, Guyana, Jamaica, Ecuador, Haiti, India, Russia, and Trinidad and Tobago,[7] Queens has the largest Asian American and Andean populations in the United States, and is also the most ethnically and linguistically diverse urban area in the world.[8][9] The metropolitan area is home to 20% of the nation's Indian Americans and at least 20 Little India enclaves, and 15% of all Korean Americans and four Koreatowns;[10] the largest Asian Indian population in the Western Hemisphere; the largest Russian American,[11] Italian American, and African American populations; the largest Dominican American, Puerto Rican American, and South American[11] and second-largest overall Hispanic population in the United States, numbering 4.8 million;[12] and includes multiple established Chinatowns within New York City alone.[13] Venezuela, Ecuador, Colombia, Guyana, Peru, and Brazil, are the top source countries from South America for immigrants to the New York City region; the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Haiti, and Trinidad and Tobago in the Caribbean; Nigeria, Egypt, Ghana, Tanzania, Kenya, and South Africa from Africa; and El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala in Central America.[14] Amidst a resurgence of Puerto Rican migration to New York City, this population had increased to approximately 1.5 million in the metropolitan area as of 2016[update].[15] New York City has the largest European and non-Hispanic white population of any American city, with 2.7 million in 2012.[16] The European diaspora residing in the city is very diverse and many European ethnic groups have formed enclaves in New York.[17][18][19] More than 12 million European immigrants were received at Ellis Island between 1892 and 1954.[20] By 1900, Germans were the largest immigrant group, followed by the Irish, Jews, and Italians.[21] In 1940, Whites represented 92% of the city's population at 6.6 million.[22][23] Asian Americans in New York City, according to the 2010 census, number more than one million, greater than the combined totals of San Francisco and Los Angeles.[24] New York contains the highest total Asian population of any U.S. city proper.[25] The Manhattan's Chinatown is the highest concentration of Chinese people in the Western Hemisphere,[1] while Queens is home to the largest Tibetan population outside Asia.[26] Arab Americans number over 160,000 in New York City,[27] with the highest concentration in Brooklyn. Central Asians, primarily Uzbek Americans, are a rapidly growing segment of the city's non-Hispanic White population.[28] New York is also home to the highest Jewish population of any city in the world, numbering 1.6 million in 2022, more than Tel Aviv and Jerusalem combined.[29] In the borough of Brooklyn, an estimated 1 in 4 residents is Jewish.[30] Since 2010, Little Australia has emerged and is growing rapidly, representing the Australasian presence in Nolita, Manhattan.[31][32][33][34] In 2011, there were an estimated 20,000 Australian residents of New York City, nearly quadruple the 5,537 in 2005.[35][36] Qantas Airways of Australia and Air New Zealand have been planning for long-haul flights from New York to Sydney and Auckland, which would both rank among the longest non-stop flights in the world.[37] References
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- Not seeing any particular benefit in expanding the historical information in this section - that should be covered in the subarticle. Much prefer Proposal
BC. Alternatively, the metropolitan area data could be left to New York metropolitan area and hatnoted here. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:19, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Not seeing any particular benefit in expanding the historical information in this section - that should be covered in the subarticle. Much prefer Proposal
- @Castncoot, Seasider53, Nikkimaria, and Moxy: We are trying to reach a consensus here. For me, we would stick with proposal A, but we have to give up on some things. What do you think of this proposal:
Proposal E
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Race and ethnicityThe city's population in 2020 was 30.9% White (non-Hispanic), 28.7% Hispanic or Latino, 20.2% Black or African American (non-Hispanic), 15.6% Asian, and 0.2% Native American (non-Hispanic). A total of 3.4% of the non-Hispanic population identified with more than one race.[3] As of 2013[update], approximately 36% of the city's population is foreign born,[4] and more than half of all children are born to mothers who are immigrants. Throughout its history, New York has been a major port of entry for immigrants into the United States.[5][6] No single country or region of origin dominates.[5] The ten largest sources of foreign-born individuals in the city as of 2011[update] were the Dominican Republic, China, Mexico, Guyana, Jamaica, Ecuador, Haiti, India, Russia, and Trinidad and Tobago,[7] Queens has the largest Asian American and Andean populations in the United States, and is also the most ethnically and linguistically diverse urban area in the world.[8][9] The metropolitan area has the largest Asian Indian population in the Western Hemisphere; the largest Russian American,[10] Italian American, and African American populations; the largest Dominican American, Puerto Rican American, and South American[10] and second-largest overall Hispanic population in the United States, numbering 4.8 million.[11] Venezuela, Ecuador, Colombia, Guyana, Peru, and Brazil, are the top source countries from South America for immigrants to the New York City region; the Dominican Republic, Jamaica, Haiti, and Trinidad and Tobago in the Caribbean; Nigeria, Egypt, Ghana, Tanzania, Kenya, and South Africa from Africa; and El Salvador, Honduras, and Guatemala in Central America.[12] New York contains the highest total Asian population of any U.S. city proper.[13] Asian Americans in New York City, according to the 2010 census, number more than one million, greater than the combined totals of San Francisco and Los Angeles.[14] Manhattan's Chinatown is the highest concentration of Chinese people in the Western Hemisphere,[1] while Queens is home to the largest Tibetan population outside Asia.[15] Arab Americans number over 160,000 in New York City,[16] with the highest concentration in Brooklyn. Central Asians, primarily Uzbek Americans, are a rapidly growing segment of the city's non-Hispanic White population.[17] The metropolitan area is home to 20% of the nation's Indian Americans and at least 20 Little India enclaves, and 15% of all Korean Americans and four Koreatowns.[18] New York City has the largest European and non-Hispanic white population of any American city, with 2.7 million in 2012.[19] The European diaspora residing in the city is very diverse and many European ethnic groups have formed enclaves.[20][21][22] New York is also home to the highest Jewish population of any city in the world, numbering 1.6 million in 2022, more than Tel Aviv and Jerusalem combined.[23] In the borough of Brooklyn, an estimated one in four residents is Jewish.[24] References
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Chronus (talk) 00:27, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- That version repeats the same sentence about Puerto Rico twice, which presumably you didn't intend? If that's fixed this could be workable, although A or C would also be fine. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:35, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Nikkimaria I had already corrected this before you posted this comment. Read again. Chronus (talk) 00:37, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- That version repeats the same sentence about Puerto Rico twice, which presumably you didn't intend? If that's fixed this could be workable, although A or C would also be fine. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:35, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Must've been an edit conflict. So, as above: A/C/E. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:40, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Nikkimaria Okay, can we stick with proposal E? I think that in this version as many ethnic groups and nationalities as possible are mentioned, which makes the text more comprehensive. What do you think? Chronus (talk) 00:42, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Must've been an edit conflict. So, as above: A/C/E. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:40, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, without that added graph - it isn't legible. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:47, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Nikkimaria Done Chronus (talk) 00:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- I can live with this. Great job, Chronus and all. Castncoot (talk) 02:39, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Castncoot Thank you! Chronus (talk) 02:45, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Reads well....just need to fix the minnie images. Moxy- 14:16, 19 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Castncoot Thank you! Chronus (talk) 02:45, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- I can live with this. Great job, Chronus and all. Castncoot (talk) 02:39, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Nikkimaria Done Chronus (talk) 00:58, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
- Yes, without that added graph - it isn't legible. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:47, 17 November 2023 (UTC)
No sports section
I noticed there was no sports section, unlike most other major cities. Is there a reason for this? Sumdood2798 (talk) 16:45, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- There is a sports section; it is a subsection of Culture. Nikkimaria (talk) 16:54, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you! Sumdood2798 (talk) 17:20, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
PATH
Just so that we're on the same page, this is not a "critical part of New York City's history":
The World Trade Center PATH station, which had opened on July 19, 1909, as the Hudson Terminal, was destroyed in the attacks. A temporary station was built and opened in 2003 and a 800,000-square-foot (74,000 m2) permanent rail station designed by Santiago Calatrava, the World Trade Center Transportation Hub, the city's third-largest hub, was completed in 2016.
Also, I'm visiting the city in a couple of weeks, so I can expect to be treated as a savant upon my return. That is how it works, right? Seasider53 (talk) 12:02, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- @Seasider53 Do you mean to say this paragraph should be deleted? Chronus (talk) 15:08, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- Correct. Seasider53 (talk) 16:41, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- I see that NYC has only been a featured article, not a good article, despite it being nominated a couple of times in the last 20 years. It's obvious why, given its poor state until recently, but maybe it's time to try again with the changes made. Seasider53 (talk) 16:45, 29 November 2023 (UTC)
- It has previously been both an FA and a GA. It was demoted from FA status in 2010 and delisted as a GA in 2013. Nikkimaria (talk) 00:03, 30 November 2023 (UTC)
Lead too long
A discussion was happening here regarding article ledes, and this article was specifically mentioned as a case where through accretion, the lead went from being near-ideal to too long. I agree, so I figured I'd drop a topic here about it. Remsense留 02:33, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
- For reference, here is the state of the article when it was demoted from featured status. I think it is four full paragraphs mostly touching on the correct things, but I will gladly concede that maybe they can be two full and two stuffed paragraphs. Remsense留 06:09, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
- Let me shorten it. CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 04:22, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
I made my edit at Special:Diff/1190307831. Here's the edit summary as promised:
- Removed "one of the world's largest natural harbors". Not true, as Hamburg's harbor is much bigger and has a much more extensive port. As this is not the objectively defining feature of NYC, it is not due to put that in the first sentence of the lead. I'm open to mention that somewhere else in the lead though, but for now, it has to go.
- Listed the district names.
- Added [by whom], because extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
- Removed "NYC has more than double the population of Los Angeles, the nation's second-most populous city. New York is the geographical and demographic center of both the Northeast megalopolis and the New York metropolitan area, the largest metropolitan area in the U.S. by both population and urban area." I removed this because we have already established that NYC is a populous city in the first sentence. Keep that in the article body though.
- Removed "making it the most linguistically diverse city in the world", can be inferred from the >800 languages stats
- Removed "If the New York metropolitan area were its own country, it would have the tenth-largest economy in the world." I do understand the need to communicate scale to the reader, but this sentence feels trivia-y and also comparing GDP of a city against GDP of a country is somewhat misleading. I'm open to adding this sentence back however.
- Removed "New York City is an established safe haven for global investors.", cited to an unreliable source. Also this can be inferred from the paragraph
- Moved "New York City is the most expensive city in the world for expatriates to live." from fourth to second paragraph. It makes sense as the fourth paragraph is about NYC's economy and the second paragraph is about NYC's population.
- CactiStaccingCrane (talk) 04:41, 17 December 2023 (UTC)
- The cutting is done. It's been cut even after Remsense had made their comments above. It's been cut several times, and now we're down to bone. You in particular don't have NYC topic experience and clearly have no idea what you're doing. I know you've tried this before, but unfortunately, despite your good faith efforts I'm sure, you do a very poor job every time, and this time is no different. This article is about the most complex city in the world, and so yes, all around it will be longer. Much simpler and much more homogeneous cities like Hanoi, for example, can have leads half this long. Not NYC. Castncoot (talk) 03:15, 18 December 2023 (UTC)
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