Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Water sports/RNLI task force

Substitution templates

As I'm rapidly wearing out my keyboard, I've created three templates to help when writing articles. Two are for linking to lifeboat class articles and one for linking to lifeboat station articles. You just need to add a short parameter to avoid three-quarters of your typing.

• {{Lbb}} – Lifeboat, for example {{Lbb|Severn}} will be read as [[Severn class lifeboat|Severn]] and so display as Severn.
• {{Lbc}} – Lifeboat Class, for example {{Lbb|E}} will be read as [[E class lifeboat|E Class]] and so display as E-class.
• {{Lbs}} – Lifeboat Station, for example {{Lbs|Fowey}} will be read as [[Fowey Lifeboat Station|Fowey]] and so display as Fowey.

Enjoy! Geof Sheppard (talk) 14:47, 12 November 2010 (UTC)

Huh?

Why is this part of WPWATERSPORTS? Lifeboat service is not a watersport, and rescuing fishermen is not concerned with watersports. Wouldn't it be better to be part of WP:TRANSPORT or a new WPEMERGENCY project; or WP:UK? (or WP:MED/EMS) -- 65.92.180.137 (talk) 01:01, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

Former RNLI stations

There are quite a few former RNLI lifeboat stations that were closed. Some reopened as independents but some did not and may not be mentioned at all on WP. If interested editors think there many be a significant number of these, is it worth starting an article on this topic, do you think? If so, I would be happy to take it on if I was notified of any applicable stations. Tony Holkham (talk) 12:47, 9 November 2014 (UTC)

Help with RNLI information

Hi, I'm Luke from the social media team at the RNLI - if there is any information you'd like from our archives, please do get in touch and I'll do my best to source it from our heritage team - [email protected], here or on my talk page.

Where I've spotted amends to our pages (ie incorrect boat names) I've worked with HappySailor to get these updated, inline with wikipedia principles - I'm also working to get a webpage added to our site to act as a verifiable source for such information.

Alukeonlife (talk) 10:45, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

To editor Alukeonlife: Hi Luke, good to know you're keen on RNLI input, as am I. There's still a lot to be done, and some lifeboat stations, each with their own fascinating history, still don't have pages on their own. I've been working on some Welsh ones, as well as the main RNLI article. There's a rich vein of information about former RNLI stations (see above), too, which should be tapped sometime. Best wishes, Tony Holkham (Talk) 11:04, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Should WikiProject Water Sports/RNLI Task Force become it's own WikiProject?

I was reading some articles under the scope of the RNLI Task Force, and noticed that they are not really related to WikiProject Water Sports. As there is a growing community of people who are supporting RNLI and creating and maintaining RNLI pages, we should create our own WikiProject.

Please comment with suggestions to make this possible.

Member of the RNLI task force

Porthysek (talk) 08:15, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

Agreed. Linking it with watersports isn't intuitive. The RNLI was set up to help commercial shipping, it is only in recent years that leisure users have come to the fore. Geof Sheppard (talk) 13:45, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

I agree, too. Agreeing is easy, though; someone would have to establish and run it - no mean task. This is not something I would currently be able to commit to, though I would be happy to help as much as I can when I get back to editing more. Tony Holkham (Talk) 15:33, 3 December 2019 (UTC)

Agree to move to it's own WP as not specifically linked to Water Sports. Franko2nd (talk) 15:12, 24 January 2020 (UTC)

• Someone tagged the task force as inactive recently but I have changed that back to semi-active as there's still activity and a need for coordination and consensus. Andrew🐉(talk) 08:28, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Boats with no name

@Geof Sheppard, Ojsyork, and Tony Holkham: Martin (Ojsyork) has been doing some good work recently, creating more articles, but is making heavy weather of their reception by other editors. I'm pinging other veterans of this task force to see if some discussion might help clear the air and help get us all pulling together.

One specific issue seems to be the treatment of boats with no name. This task force already has some guidance about article titles for these and there's a huge page, WP:SHIPNAME, which has a similar section.

Andrew🐉(talk) 08:28, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

Thanks for the heads up, but I'm not editing very much at the moment, and not willing to partake in these discussions, having read Martin's user page. Tony Holkham (Talk) 09:46, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

The Ships project seems to be concerned with article titles. I think what we need to consider for RNLI lifeboats is how they appear in all the tables that we use on lifeboat and station articles.

I'm leaning towards (no name) as when it is read in conjunction with the column header it can be taken as 'Name - (no name)'. This feels slightly less clunky than 'Name - unnamed'.

Leaving a blank cell could be ambiguous (did we miss the name?)

What is definitely incorrect is unnamed or no name as the italics would suggest it is a name.

Geof Sheppard (talk) 13:28, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

When I started out updating Lifeboat pages, I did so very carefully, trying to match what had gone before. In some cases, things I'd changed were jumped on, that lifeboat pages were very precise, and I immediately reverted what I had done. For example, I didn't understand the need to leave Silloth for example, which would appear in Red as the link didn't go anywhere.

I'm now doing my best to create these station pages, have done 12 so far.

There are hundreds of pages where the boat is referred to as Unnamed, capitalized, or italicised, and sometimes Unnamed, but all with this exact text, as it is what has gone before.

I'm sure I may be guilty of some of the variations, but if it is agreed that some form of Unnamed, or Unnamed (or without capitals) be the convention, I'm happy to make the amendments.

I see no value at this time changing EVERY entry to (No Name). Ojsyork (talk) 09:02, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

Dear All

I have tried a few different styles for the Unnamed entries, and started by revising all the D-class tables.

IMHO, I think that Unnamed (Small, & Unnamed with a capital U) presents well.

Its not italicised, and being smaller sets it apart from normal names.

I don't suppose Geof will alter his view, but maybe some of the rest of you will agree.

MartinOjsyork (talk) 21:05, 12 March 2024 (UTC)

I have no particular preference as all of the options work well enough for me. What does the Lifeboat Enthusiasts Handbook do? Andrew🐉(talk) 10:41, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Unnamed Ojsyork (talk) 11:43, 17 March 2024 (UTC)

Table format in station articles

Dates in service	Class	ON	Op. No.	Name	Comments
2007−present	Watson-class	ON 1286	16-06	Frank and Anne Wilkinson

I see absolutely no reason for this format of table. Surely the Name of the boat should come first, but in the RNLI world, this is prefixed by an Official Number, and/or an Operational number. MartinOjsyork (talk) 14:40, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

A well-designed table uses the first column to show the way that the rows are ordered. Every station article that I have looked at has the table ordered by date. Geof Sheppard (talk) 16:57, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Geof

"Every station article that I have looked at has the table ordered by date."

You are fully aware that is Not Correct.

All Station fleet tables were amended earlier this year to be of the same format as Lifeboat Fleet, with the ON and Op numbers first, followed by the name, service dates and class, in order to make some order of the mish-mash that existed previously.

The only tables that are different are the ones you have amended since my updates. Exmouth, Looe, Fowey, Teignmouth, Dart, Torbay, Plymouth, Salcombe.

MartinOjsyork (talk) 18:24, 14 March 2024 (UTC)

Sorry Martin, I think you misunderstood what I meant by the way the rows are ordered. The tables have each row in successive date order. For example:

At Exmouth	ON	Op. No.	Name	Class
1933–1953	767		Catherine Harriet Eaton	Self-righting
1953–1960	916		Maria Noble	Liverpool
1960–1963	749		George and Sarah Strachan	Watson
1963–1968	838		Michael Stephens	Watson
1968–1970	847		Gertrude	Watson
1970–1983	1012	48-009	City of Birmingham	Solent
1983–1994	1088	33-06	Caroline Finch	Brede
1994–1996	1045	44-019	Louis Marchesi of the Round Table	Waveney
1996–2008	1210	14-12	Forward Birmingham	Trent
2008–2014	1178	12-21	Margaret Jean	Mersey
2014–	1310	13-03	R. and J. Welburn	Shannon

Putting the rows into order for ON, Op No, name or class would put the rows in a different order. Geof Sheppard (talk) 13:33, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

In that case, yes, you are correct, all the station fleet tables are ordered in Service Date order, and have always been arranged in Service date order, even those showing ON and OP numbers first. Ojsyork (talk) 16:11, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

When I started updates, I primarily worked on Fleet tables, which have ON numbers first. Moving onto Station pages, I found a complete mish-mash of styles, and unaware of any directive on WikiProject Water sports/RNLI task force, if they needed work, they were all made the same.

I do not really have a problem with the style of table you have produced above, and if that is what the majority prefer, then we make them all the same.
In Service, ON, Op, Name, Class, Comments

(I still think In Service, as it is consistent, and works better than At XXXX. At XXXX works fine for Bude, but not for Porthdinllaen, which creates a very wide column with no data. However, We discussed On Station as an alternative?) Martin Ojsyork (talk) 16:12, 15 March 2024 (UTC)

List of former RNLI stations

In a moment of madness, I decided I would create a List of former RNLI stations. Primarily because I know some pages already exist, Teesmouth, Robin Hood's Bay etc, which maybe aren't being seen enough. And I have some information to create more pages.

However, it needs more work, the list is incomplete, all collaboration welcomed.

MartinOjsyork (talk) 07:25, 19 March 2024 (UTC)

Nominated for Deletion

Bamburgh Castle Lifeboat Station page has been nominated for deletion. If you wish to comment, ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Bamburgh_Castle_Lifeboat_Station

MartinOjsyork (talk) 09:51, 2 May 2024 (UTC)