Wikipedia talk:Edit requests/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Altering the "Planning a request" section

The steps in the "Planning a request" section does not seem to reflect how edit requests, at least from the COI side, seem to work. Very few edit requests seem to have started as non-templated discussions on the talk page; people go straight for the template. That is probably because the likelihood of someone seeing a non-templated request is low. Should this page reflect that reality, and if so, in what way? WhinyTheYounger (WtY)(talk, contribs) 21:21, 7 January 2023 (UTC)

Most people who are restricted from editing (mostly due to low editcount, non-autoconfirmed) don't know what templates are, how they work. However, when someone clicks the "view source" option at the same location as "edit" option, they are taken to a page with a banner giving them instructions to hit the blue button, which creates pre-filled templated section at the bottom. Hence, the straight to template thing. In fact, the template wasn't even visible on mobile devices at all until very recently. —CX Zoom[he/him] ^{(let's talk • {C•X})} 18:45, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

If edit requests don't have consensus they can be declined and there is even a templated answer declining and directing the requester to get consensus. Thinker78 (talk) 00:41, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Ending the idea of establishing consensus for edit requests

As brought up in the previous discussion, no one gets consensus for edit requests. Very few edit requests attempt to establish consensus, and that is also rarely a reason they are denied. This is because it is an unnecessary step. When editors want to add content to an article, they just do it. They don’t have to propose changes on the talk page first. Why do editors suddenly have to get their changes confirmed just because the page is protected? For fully-protected pages, sure, it makes sense to require consensus. But anything else is both not how it actually works right now and unnecessary slowness added to the (already incredibly slow!) process. Snowmanonahoe (talk) 02:26, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

I seem no need to do anything here - edit requests are handled by humans, who should have good enough judgement to know whether a request requires a formal consensus or not. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 02:55, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

I suppose that’s true, but by that logic, why do we have policies and guidelines? We shouldn’t give what few requesters whom read this page the impression it’s necessary. Snowmanonahoe (talk) 11:28, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Recommend using the textdiff template

Given the number of requests that don't fully implement WP:EDITXY it seems like suggesting the use of {{TextDiff}} or a similar template might be worthwhile. This might be a useful "stencil" for editors unfamiliar with ERs to use. Thoughts? --N8_wilson 🔔 00:20, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

The huge majority of edit requests don't seem read any of the instructions, so I think asking them to use a template is probably too much. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:23, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

@ScottishFinnishRadish: Rejuvenating the discussion here after the other one got archived after I replied. There are still people who follow these instructions. This argument sounds a bit like the Nirvana fallacy. This proposal also does have benefits lots of times, as it makes the changes clearer, especially when people follow the x to y format and decide to include the entire paragraph just to add a single sentence. Aaron Liu (talk) 13:48, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

I think the responses on the archived thread cover more than enough reasons not to do this. Added complexity with very few situations where it will be more clear than it is without using the template isn't worth it. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:13, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

I can't think of any situations where using the template makes it less clear, could you give me some pointers? Aaron Liu (talk) 00:24, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

When the use is inevitably botched by the majority of the vanishingly small minority who will use it, it will make things less clear. You'll notice, however, that I said that there would be very few situations where it would be more clear, not that it would be less clear. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 00:43, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

I don't really get how someone who understands the instructions here can botch understanding the very easy docs of textdiff. There is only one added step(going to and understanding the docs), which amounts to little complexity. Aaron Liu (talk) 00:53, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Going from reading no documentation other than what pops up when you try to edit a page you don't have permissions for to having to read up on a template, and figure out what a template is, is a massive increase in complexity which will only dissuade the sliver of those requesting edits that follow the existing instructions. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:02, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

You don't have to figure out what a template is, you only have to realize that you can magically generate a diff with {{ | . I also didn't understand what your first half sentence(up to the comma) meant. Aaron Liu (talk) 02:31, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

The first sentence describes the standard work flow now, which is trying to edit a page you can't and being funneled into an edit request, versus what you suggest which involves reading documentation on a template. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:34, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

I wasn't trying to make reading the docs mandatory. I just wanted to make this a recommendation on at least this page. It could be extended to the ERW and submit an edit request preloads. So, this recommendation has multiple levels:

1. Recommended on this policy page 2. Recommend in ERW preloads 3. Recommend in {{Submit an edit request}} preloads None of these levels include requiring it. I advocate for all three. Aaron Liu (talk) 22:09, 4 November 2022 (UTC)

Oppose 3; I've seen too many instances of the literal {{TextDiff|ORIGINAL_TEXT|CHANGED_TEXT]} from {{request edit button}} for me to be convinced that adding it to further preloads is a good idea. Don't really care about 1 and 2. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:12, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Declining Third Opinion request

I note the good faith request for a 3O, however there are three editors involved here, and others in the earlier and archived discussion on the topic. Perhaps you could try WP:Requests for Comment, the dispute resolution noticeboard, the talk page of a Wikiproject or one of the other WP:Dispute resolution options. With best wishes to all; Springnuts (talk) 15:02, 20 November 2022 (UTC)

@Springnuts Sorry for the late response, but the 3O page says 3O is usually flexible by allowing a few exceptions, like those involving mainly two editors with an extra editor having minimal participation. N8wilson only made one comment. Aaron Liu (talk) 15:45, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Apologies if you feel I was unduly harsh. I hope you managed to solve the dispute. Springnuts (talk) 19:26, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Nope, I forgot about it for 7 months... Aaron Liu (talk) 00:41, 19 July 2023 (UTC)

Appealing a rejection

The page lacks advice on what to do if a request - especially a CoI request - is declined, and the reason the declining editor gives seems to be wrong, unfair, or based on a misreading of ether the request or Wikipedia policy. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:45, 11 July 2023 (UTC)

I think the procedure is to reopen the request, and post a note under the first rejection that you are asking for other editors to give their opinion. Z1720 (talk) 02:48, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

I've tried exactly that, and been reverted and told "Please establish a consensus with editors engaged in the subject area before using the {{Edit COI}} template for this proposed change." Greater clarity about this point would be beneficial. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 09:50, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

If an edit request was declined, unless you make a different one or change that one very much, probably you are going to be reverted if you just copy paste the declined request. You can check the WP:CONSENSUS policy. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 19:06, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

I didn't copy'n'paste the original request. I did exactly as advised above: "reopen the request, and post a note under the first rejection that you are asking for other editors to give their opinion" Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 14:28, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

@Pigsonthewing Can you link said situation? Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 21:31, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

Good question. I think the answer is to follow the dispute resolution process. Regards, Thinker78 (talk) 04:49, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Is Category:Wikipedia semi-protected edit requests still self-updating?

I do not know if this is the place to raise this issue, or if it should be checked on somewhere else (if I should ask elsewhere, I would greatly appreciate being pointed in the right direction). But I think the tool that automatically updates Category:Wikipedia semi-protected edit requests might not be functioning currently. Even after purging its cache, it still displays edit requests that I have already responded to and the last entry listed has the date and time of 2023-10-11 10:45. I have looked in on the list briefly several times over the last several hours and haven't noticed any new entries added. --Pinchme123 (talk) 00:58, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

The table at the top is updated by a bot, which is currently down. I've reported it to the bot operator, and he should fix it soon. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 01:08, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for the detail! --Pinchme123 (talk) 03:58, 12 October 2023 (UTC)