Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Assessment/Gottlob Berger

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The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Article promoted by Sturmvogel 66 (talk) via MilHistBot (talk) 19:06, 17 September 2015 (UTC) « Return to A-Class review list[reply]

Gottlob Berger[edit]

Nominator(s): Peacemaker67 (crack... thump)

Gottlob Berger (edit | talk | history | links | watch | logs)

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Berger was the head of Waffen-SS recruiting for almost all of WWII, and is considered by some scholars to be the "Father of the Waffen-SS". A WWI veteran and early member of the Nazi Party, he became one of Himmler's most trusted operators, and was responsible for the huge number of "Germanic", ethnic German and "foreign" soldiers recruited into the Waffen-SS from 1940 on. Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 14:25, 29 July 2015 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support: to be honest I find it sometimes a little depressing to read about these characters, but there is no denying IMO the quality of the work that has gone into the article: AustralianRupert (talk) 07:41, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
    • there are no dabs, ext links all work, and there are no duplicate links
    • the article appears to be well researched and referenced using reliable sources, employing a consistent referencing style
    • overall, the article is well written, but I have a couple of suggestions:
      • "rounding up of "political undesirables" and Jews" --> "rounding up of Jews and "political undesirables"..." (it is probably smoother if you put the shorter element of the list first)
      • "Between 1933–35" --> "Between 1933 and 1935" or "During the period 1933–35..."
      • "they began to be combined in new formations..." --> "they were combined in new formations"
    • the article is well structured, but I have one suggestion:
      • there are perhaps too many headings. It might be possible to merge a couple of sections (e.g. "Sentence" and "Review of sentence" could be merged and I wonder if the year range headers are truly necessary)
    • the article appears to be comprehensive in its coverage, however I have a couple of suggestions/questions:
      • do we know if he fought in any notable battles during World War I, or what regiment he served (or if there is limited information, which front he fought on)?
      • do we know what he died of?
    • "15th Waffen-Grenadierdivision der SS (lettische Nr. 1), the 19th Waffen-Grenadierdivision der SS (lettische Nr. 2), and the 20th Waffen-Grenadierdivision der SS (estnische Nr. 1). " --> should these names be presented in italics as they are foreign words?
    • "File:Bundesarchiv Bild 183-J27050, Panzergrenadiere der SS-Panzer-Division "Hitlerjugend".jpg": it would be more MOS compliant if this file could face into the article
    • same as above potentially for "File:Bundesarchiv Bild 183-J16133, Lettland, Appell der SS-Legion.jpg"
      • Thanks for the review, Rupert. I know what you mean, generally I prefer straight soldiers than these machine people, and the sentence reductions after the war really stick in my craw. Berger's role in the recruiting of Waffen-SS in the Balkans put him squarely in my sights as I started to look at completing my work on the Balkan Waffen-SS divisions. I'll get right onto these comments. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 07:52, 15 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support
    • I reviewed this article for GA and have read over it again following its continued development and couldn't see any issues with the additions and other changes since my last review. I believe this meets the A class criteria now. Anotherclown (talk) 00:50, 30 August 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Comment. Just want to be clear that I'm not avoiding this because I didn't like it ... Every time I run through the A-class articles, I'm only tackling one per customer, and I just finished your August Meyszner. I'm slammed for time right now. - Dank (push to talk) 16:15, 10 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Dan, I know you have been concentrating elsewhere. This one is also longer than Meyszner, so don't sweat it. Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 22:15, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Images review[edit]

Checks out - no issues

  • Bundesarchiv Bild 183-S73321, Gottlob Berger.jpg - Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Germany, source German Federal Archives 1944, photographer unknown; alt=Gottlob Berger wearing Waffen-SS dress uniform

Alt caption non specific:

  • Bundesarchiv Bild 146-1974-160-13A, Theodor Eicke.jpg - Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Germany, source German Federal Archives 1942, photographer unknown; alt=a black and white photograph of a male in dress uniform
  • Uw plaats is nog vrij in de Waffen ss.png - Public domain tag; source Webposters; alt=a colour poster depicting soldiers
  • Bundesarchiv Bild 146-1971-033-01, Alfred Jodl.jpg - Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Germany, source German Federal Archives 1940, photographer unknown; alt=a black and white portrait of a male in dress uniform
  • Bundesarchiv Bild 101III-Bueschel-069-31, Russland, Kradfahrer der Waffen-SS.jpg - Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Germany, source German Federal Archives 1942, photographer Büschel; alt=a black and white photograph of a military motorcycle crew with several horses in the background
  • Bundesarchiv Bild 183-J27050, Panzergrenadiere der SS-Panzer-Division "Hitlerjugend".jpg - Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Germany, source German Federal Archives 1944, photographer unknown; alt=a black and white photograph of a line of soldiers on parade
  • Bundesarchiv Bild 183-J16133, Lettland, Appell der SS-Legion.jpg - Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Germany, source German Federal Archives 1943, photographer unknown; alt=a black and white photograph of soldiers in greatcoats marching in a column
  • Bundesarchiv Bild 146-1973-116-11, Waffen-SS, 13. Gebirgs-Div. "Handschar".jpg - Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Germany, source German Federal Archives 1943, photographer unknown; alt=a black and white photograph of men wearing camouflage jackets and a fez
  • Wilhelmstr Prozess Nürnberg WEB.JPG - Public domain tag, 1947, source courtesy of Robert Kempner United States Holocaust Museum; alt=a black and white photograph of a court room with several rows of men sitting on a tiered stand
  • Bundesarchiv Bild 183-S73495, Oskar Dirlewanger.jpg - Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Germany, source German Federal Archives 1944, photographer Ahrens, Anton; alt=a black and white photograph of a male in uniform
Have improved the alt text for these images. Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 23:06, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Caption and alt caption non specific, does not mention this is Heinrich Himmler - image says 1942, caption says 1940

  • Bundesarchiv Bild 101III-Moebius-146-06, Russland, Heinrich Himmler bei Frontbesuch.jpg - Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Germany, source German Federal Archives 1942, photographer Möbius; alt=a black and white photograph of a bespectacled man in uniform walking along a line of combat soldiers
Now mentions this is Himmler. Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 23:06, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Does caption match image summary? Alt caption too generic and could be any country or any military

  • Bundesarchiv Bild 101I-169-0915-24, Jugoslawien, Rastplatz deutscher LKW und Panzer H39.jpg - Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Germany, source German Federal Archives 1941, photographer Heber; alt=a black and white photograph of armoured vehicles and tents in a square formation in open country
Yes, the caption does match. A Rastplatz is a laager or defensive formation of armoured vehicles, I have just described it in the context of the image. Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 23:06, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Alt caption is too generic; this is dated 1944, but the summary under Depicted people says this is 1946

  • Bundesarchiv Bild 183-N0301-503, General Wlassow mit Soldaten der ROA.jpg - Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 Germany, source German Federal Archives 1944, photographer unknown; alt=a black and white photograph of a bespectacled man in uniform addressing some soldiers
Alt caption fixed, 1946 in the description refers to the date of Vlasov's execution in Moscow after the war. Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 23:06, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Alt caption too non specific; image on Commons need Summary information

  • Colditz Castle1.jpg - Attribution-Share Alike 2.5 Generic, Metadata and source are 2006 uploader; no Summary information; alt=a whitewashed building with a red tiled roof
Fixed.

Details above. WP:ALT on most of them, plus other issues. — Maile (talk) 14:38, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks very much for the comprehensive review. Alt text isn't actually required at ACR, so I'm going to concentrate on the image description issues and captions. Will ping you when I'm done. Cheers, Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 22:15, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
All the above fixed. Thanks again. Peacemaker67 (crack... thump) 23:06, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on images - I re-checked each image alt caption. Thank you for taking care of the Alt text, anyway, even though it's technically not required at ACR. Always nice to go the extra step for the visually impaired. — Maile (talk) 23:23, 12 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support on prose etc.
  • I agree with Rupert that these are depressing characters, but there is no doubt about the quality of the articles, nor about the need for articles about these men in general. This is another fine example of good writing, research, and all-around thorough work. I'd like to see some of the sections condensed, but this would be an objection I might bring up at the next level of review, if it comes to that. auntieruth (talk) 16:21, 15 September 2015 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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