Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2021 February 1

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February 1[edit]

Template:Template shortcut[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was Convert. {{Template shortcut}} is to be turned into a wrapper template for module:shortcut. (non-admin closure) –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 17:19, 16 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Template:Template shortcut with Template:Shortcut.
Why have two similar templates when we could just have one template that changes depending on the namespace? JsfasdF252 (talk) 21:19, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Why even have what template shortcut does? That seems pretty useless to me. --Izno (talk) 04:11, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • I do find it more intuitive and helpful. Also "Template:..." could be jarring when the shortcut is an abbreviation but lowercase (e.g. "Template:tl"). Nardog (talk) 05:14, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      • The point I'm trying to make is that we shouldn't be encouraging people to use shortcuts. If they find a convenient one for themselves, fine, that's great, but most have no business being advertised. --Izno (talk) 06:00, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • @Izno: Really? You would discourage people using {{tlx}} over {{Template link expanded}}, or {{nbsp}} over {{Spaces}}? Nardog (talk) 06:25, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • Not encourage != discourage. :) --Izno (talk) 07:46, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
            • Why not advertise them then. Nardog (talk) 10:54, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
        • By now, shortcuts are an integral part of many argument wikilinks, and shortcut templates are an essential method of signposting those unfamiliar with them. Removing shortcut templates would cause significant confusion from new editors who wouldn't know what WP:BOOMERANG or WP:DNFTT actually stood for, since both shortcuts lead to titles significantly different from the shortcut name. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). 11:22, 2 February 2021 (UTC) Managed to misread it as if Izno is advocating the removal of any and all shortcut templates. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). 11:36, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • @TheDragonFire300: It seems you haven't understood what's being proposed here. Nobody is arguing for deletion of any shortcut template. Also, why insert your comment here? How is it a reply to mine at 05:14? Nardog (talk) 11:26, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
            • @Nardog: I apologise, I used the wrong indent level. I meant to reply to Izno, who suggests that we should not be using shortcut templates. I have fixed the indent levels to reflect this. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). 11:28, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
              • He said template shortcut, not "shortcut templates". He's only talking about {{Template shortcut}}, not {{Shortcut}}. Nardog (talk) 11:31, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
                • Apologies again for misreading. In any case, however, the spirit of my wording still stands, just in a different context. We use shorthand for templates so much, and it would remain beneficial to signpost the shorthand that editors can use and will see in our wiki markup. Whether this is implemented in {{Template shortcut}} or emulated in {{shortcut}} will be good enough in either case. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). 11:36, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
                  • Cool. I share that spirit, as my comments above hopefully indicate. Nardog (talk) 11:39, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
          • Template shortcuts are a bit problematic as the shortcuts are unlikely to have the same protection level as the template they redirect to. Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 15:45, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • If it's possible to do (I don't understand the mechanics of templates), then I agree that it would be better to simplify. The huge number of slightly overlapping templates makes all of them so much harder to use. Having just one template to fulfill both functions means shortcuts will be a lot easier to implement. --Xurizuri (talk) 04:58, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • We can also have a parameter that uses Template shortcut behaviour, instead of namespace detection which might cause unwanted shortcut presentation. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). 05:11, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • In that case I would oppose merging. The whole point of a template is that it's a shorthand for something. If the brackets were an opt-out option in the Template namespace, however, so that if {{shortcut}} was used in the namespace and you wanted it to have "Template:" instead of brackets you'd have to enter e.g. |template=no, I'd be down for that. Nardog (talk) 05:24, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support merging shortcut templates in general. {{Policy shortcut}} is another one I would suggest merging into {{Shortcut}}, and no need to display the extra word "policy". –Novem Linguae (talk) 05:47, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Honestly, I would nominate that one for delete-and-redirect if they're parameter-compatible. We certainly don't need the extra word "policy", and the templates don't seem to differ in any other way.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  09:11, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • There are also {{Shortcut-l}} and {{Ombox/shortcut}} that could be merged into this template as well. – Ase1estet@lkc0ntribs 10:44, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
      {{Ombox/shortcut}} is rather specialized, and trying to merge it in as some kind of |ombox=y parameter is probably not a good use of editorial time; we don't really gain anything, but it wouldn't be complicated to do. {{Shortcut-l}} looks like an outright deletion candidate to me. I can't think of a good use for this (not on en.WP; maybe on a R-to-L language's Wikipedia).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  09:11, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support. I (or at least I) don't see the problem with merging. It's a pretty similar template; some features in the Template Shortcut can be incorporated to the Shortcut. GeraldWL 06:17, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge with Template:Shortcut: the templates seem to serve the exact same purpose. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 18:57, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support merging, as they are very similar. But per Nardog, any parameter override should be opt-out rather than opt-in. - Evad37 [talk] 01:13, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Conditional support provided the behavior of {{Template shortcut}} is to be made the default in the Template namespace. See the bottom of Template:Shortcut/testcases for examples. Nardog (talk) 09:22, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    • I take Uanfala and Senator2029's points below. Given the 300+ transclusions of {{Shortcut}} in the Template namespace, a drastic change in the behavior of a template depending on namespace could lead to considerable confusion. We should just make {{Template shortcut}} a wrapper for Module:Shortcut with |template=yes. In another word, oppose. Nardog (talk) 00:52, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Meh. Looking at the source code for these, they don't appear to be similar at all. One uses a Lua module, while the other has a bunch of hardcoded "Template:"s in the source. Merging them doesn't appear to be a trivial task; why waste time fixing something that isn't broken when we have so many backlogs of things that are broken? wbm1058 (talk) 17:46, 4 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    Moot objection, since the merge has already been performed in sandbox and has been testcased. And this "this one is Lua based and that is not" isn't a rationale, and never has been. We care about the resulting performance/features, not what code produces them.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:57, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge Nardog's way, if I understand all the testcases I'm looking at.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  08:57, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't see the need for a merge either. The curly-bracket display may be used most of the time on templates, but it's not universal: there are shortcuts, like T:CENT or T:DYK/Q, that are primarily intended to be used like WP: shortcuts: for linking and not in transclusions, so presenting them in curly brackets will not be appropriate. – Uanfala (talk) 18:51, 7 February 2021 (UTC) {{Shortcut}} appears to be used on about 200 unique template pages. On some of these, a change to a curly-bracket display will be an improvement, but there any many cases where the use of {{shortcut}} is deliberate. These will need to be examined and changed as appropriate before any mergers. – Uanfala (talk) 19:08, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. If you are going to merge, please do so with extra care. These two templates seem to have as many differences as similarities. Cordially, History DMZ (HQ) † (wire) 04:51, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support Basically a waste of space, this is achievable with a single template. ThatIPEditor (talk) 12:55, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support, preference for preserving {{Template shortcut}} behaviour based on namespace or parameter: These two templates should not be rendered using drastically different methods, and a Lua approach would be more flexible for both. {{Template shortcut}}'s behaviour is valuable for its namespace, and should be reflected in its replacement. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). 23:24, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    In light of namespace breaking changes brought to my attention, I would like to clarify that I would want {{Template shortcut}}'s behaviour to be preserved be based on either namespace or a parameter, with a slight preference towards the latter. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). 17:02, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - So what you are proposing is merge these two (or more) templates is needed becuse the overlap is too confusing or difficult to remember. But the combined template would require the use of various parameters. 🤔 What evidence is there to show this is more simple or better? None. Therefore, leave the two templates unchanged. Senator2029 ❮talk❯ 00:21, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Senator2029: The resulting codebase will be simpler. Currently, we are depending on two entirely different approaches to render both templates: {{Shortcut}} uses Lua modules, {{Template shortcut}} uses regular template code with hardcoded output and limited quantity. A merge will move both to a unified Lua module, making changes to both simpler, given that both templates accomplish similar goals. Your point regarding parameters is also moot; the vast majority of {{Shortcut}} and {{Template shortcut}} uses are already used in the namespace that would use the best output option for them; only a few will need to have new additional |template = no added. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). 00:35, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge with Template:Shortcut Aasim (talk) 04:50, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • @Evad37 and SMcCandlish (since you've mentioned me): I've changed my mind. Making the same wikicode render different outputs depending on namespace could lead to confusion and redundant wikitext at best, and to breaking errors at worst. There are 300+ transclusions of {{Shortcut}} in the Template namespace, many of which are presumably part of the templates meant to be transcluded in other namespaces, which, if we proceeded with the merge, would display differently on the template pages themselves and in documentation and testcases, than in the intended namespaces, which would most likely mislead editors. Consolidating the internal working of {{Template shortcut}} into Module:Shortcut is of course advisable (and doesn't even require TfD), but merging the template altogether isn't. (We could still merge it and make the for-template behavior an opt-in option, i.e. turning {{template shortcut|...}} into {{shortcut|template=yes|...}}, but that defeats the whole point of a template, which is to provide a shorthand). Nardog (talk) 12:38, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: I wonder whether we should be encouraging the use of "shortcut" boxes for templates at all. Unlike with policy and guideline shortcuts, these template "shortcuts" are just redirects to a template, for which the usual practice is to list in a section at the bottom of the template documentation. Their use does not need to be encouraged, and I don't think they should be highlighted as such. --Paul_012 (talk) 12:06, 10 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    I think they're generally useful to have, especially for templates like say, {{cn}} or {{t}}. Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 02:04, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. They are useful as they are, and no harm is done by keeping these two shortcut templates apart from each other. Most editors are actually used to there being two separate templates. It would be a huge waste of time for them to have to revisit the documentation and relearn parameters. No merge please! P.I. Ellsworth  ed. put'r there 12:52, 12 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. as per Wikipedia:Solutions looking for a problem.--Moxy 🍁 10:59, 13 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Infobox ununennium isotopes[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 15:44, 11 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

WP:UNDUE and WP:CRYSTAL. After I saw this edit, it turns out that these rarely-viewed isobox templates include only single sets of predictions for arguably arbitrary isotopes. Neither element 119 nor element 121 have been discovered, so all isotopes remain hypothetical, and there is a wide range of predictions for a wide range of possible isotopes. Until these elements are observed, there is no way to keep an isobox that is not blank but does not give undue weight to one prediction over any others, so I propose deletion until they are discovered. (I am not including the isobox for element 120 in this nomination because it has an unconfirmed report of discovery, so for that, there is usable content not in violation of these policies.) ComplexRational (talk) 20:37, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Delete per nom. -DePiep (talk) 21:32, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete Half-life predictions in this region are highly uncertain, since the proton shell closure in the range of Z = 114—126 is not well-established. Singling out these predictions as representative also violates WP:OR. –LaundryPizza03 (dc̄) 12:52, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete per nom. Of course, recreate when the elements are discovered. ;) Double sharp (talk) 15:46, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Rewrite section[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was merge to Template:Cleanup rewrite. Primefac (talk) 00:54, 12 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Propose merging Template:Rewrite section with Template:Cleanup rewrite.

The standard template, Template:Cleanup rewrite, has the ability to tag the rewrite as for a section only, so this template is unnecessary. Oiyarbepsy (talk) 07:26, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

👍 -- Beland (talk) 08:31, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per nom, and to avoid redundancy. Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 13:23, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Agree. Better to keep things streamlined, otherwise it gets confusing. Also, clean up rewrite at least has some documentation. --Xurizuri (talk) 05:09, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per nom. Redundant. Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 15:28, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge per nom - maintainence tags for sections only are inconsistent as some are apart of the respective template and others are separate. Total support from myself. P,TO 19104 (talk) (contribs) 21:59, 7 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Merge, per nom, I get confused sometimes between the two and I think that merging is necessary to remove the confusion and to unify the templates. PyroFloe (talk) 17:43, 8 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    he wanted ot tall her a lot a lot 98.245.91.139 (talk) 16:01, 29 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Uw-ewpovblock[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted by Fastily (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 04:06, 9 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I think for something like this it would be better to just use the general block template or have a block-multiple template for this. Having a more specific block template is a bit unnecessary. Aasim (talk) 02:08, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To add on, I think this template was created without consensus. Aasim (talk) 02:09, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete - it's {{uw-ewblock}} but slightly more specific, I don't see a particular need for it, if an admin feels the need to block specifically for POV-pushing and edit warring together they can use a custom block rationale on uw-ewblock. GeneralNotability (talk) 02:58, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Uw-ttraidblock[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted as G7 by Fastily (talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT⚡ 08:06, 3 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I don't see a point for this template, way too specific. The block reason is even very vague and confusing. I think just citing the appropriate policies without mentioning "TikTok" would be better, so this template should be deleted. Aasim (talk) 02:05, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

To add on, I think this template was created without consensus. Aasim (talk) 02:09, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as excessively specific and unnecessary. If I'm blocking someone for this infernal TikTok meme, WP:NOTHERE works just fine. While the creation of block templates is not something restricted to administrators, I would expect the creation of block templates to at least be in response to administrative need - that is, an administrator saying "I keep handing out blocks for (reason) but there isn't really a template for that, could someone whip one up?" rather than a user creating block templates on their own initiative and hoping an administrator will decide to use it. GeneralNotability (talk) 03:01, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete per WP:DENY. We shouldn't recognize that they came from TikTok, as that would just encourage them to vandalize even more. Just treat them as another regular vandal. --pandakekok9 (talk) 07:56, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Delete as only serving to give a strangely specific and time-limited block rationale that would be better served by {{uw-nothereblock}}. See also Template:Uw-ttnonnotable1, a corresponding user warning series; it might also need similar scrutiny to this template. Regards, User:TheDragonFire300. (Contact me | Contributions). 11:48, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

And now I'm afraid I'll get blocked. Shinyeditbonjour. 15:54, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

I do not think you will be blocked unless if your alternate account is actively being used to violate policy. I generally see alt accounts as good for testing or good for editing different topic areas or for better security, but I think it is important that they are disclosed and that it is best to stick with one account.
And about templates, I think they should be created with consensus. For example, consider discussing your block template at Wikipedia talk:Template index/User talk namespace. Something to consider for the future. Aasim (talk) 17:20, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Free Scotland Party/meta/color[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was delete. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 17:57, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Originally nominated for speedy deletion by @Angryskies with the reason "Article no longer exists" FASTILY 22:54, 24 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

  • Speedy Delete It was making a mess of the election result tables on the two articles that used it, I have now changed both so that the tables don't break if the party has a colour template but doesn't have a corresponding article. It's a nice shade of turquoise though! PinkPanda272 (talk/contribs) 22:30, 25 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Article may not exist, but template appears to still be in use. More discussion then?
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 01:48, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep these templates exist for structural reasons and an article for them existing is not required. This should probably be documented better. Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 01:34, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    @Elliot321: Can you explain in more detail? PinkPanda272 seems to indicate this is malfunctional anyway. Is there a problem to patch? And regardless, is there an actual rationale for this particular template fragment? We have no reason to create color-related subtemplates for every political party on earth, only in cases where we have an article that could use them, and there is some actual will to use them.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼  09:02, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
    The article Free Scotland Party no longer exists - but as they have run in some elections, the relevant election box transcludes this template. Honestly, the current system is a mess, and these should probably be subpages of some standard template, but that's not what this discussion is about (I am tempted to try to figure out what would be necessary to make that change and propose it, because ugh, orphaned templates are not fun). Elliot321 (talk | contribs) 12:26, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • delete, Template:Scottish election candidates results will automatically stop transcluding it once it is deleted. Frietjes (talk) 18:47, 5 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • The singular use of this seems to be on Mid Scotland and Fife (Scottish Parliament electoral region)#Additional member results 3. As far as I can tell, the choice of turquoise is arbitrary and not reflective of the party's actual identity. FSP had a flag that is the standard Scottish blue-and-white, and a defunct website with some heavy blue themes. So should we change the color to blue? Or white? Well... maybe, but in absence of a reliable source identifying that as the party's identity, I would rather the election results article I linked, with barely a passing mention of an extremely minor party, not use a color at all. So, delete. — The Earwig ⟨talk⟩ 06:22, 14 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

Template:Inoi-Chalkis Line[edit]

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template(s) or module(s) below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).

The result of the discussion was move. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 16:53, 12 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Unused and not sure where it would be used Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 14:37, 7 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Keep. The line is part of the Proastiakos network, where the template is now used. AlgaeGraphix (talk) 16:13, 7 January 2021 (UTC) Delete {{Oinoi–Chalcis railway diagram}} (created August 2019 vs. April 2009) instead. Photo and diagram are now in the Oinoi–Chalcis railway article. AlgaeGraphix (talk) 17:26, 17 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Since {{Inoi-Chalkis Line}} is indeed older, I think it's best to delete {{Oinoi–Chalcis railway diagram}} and move {{Inoi-Chalkis Line}} to that title, which is in line with the article titles Oinoi–Chalcis railway, Oinoi railway station and Chalcis railway station. Markussep Talk 08:06, 18 January 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting this mainly because the other template was deleted, so there's nothing to merge.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac (talk) 01:37, 1 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
  • Rename to Oinoi–Chalcis railway diagram, per article title. Techie3 (talk) 10:32, 2 February 2021 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
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