Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 January 26

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January 26[edit]

This is a list of redirects that have been proposed for deletion or other action on January 26, 2017.

Battle of Syracuse (387 BC)[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was Speedy keep. Uncontroversial and effective withdrawal by nominator. (non-admin closure) –  Paine Ellsworth  u/c

Delete. The military action described in the article was neither a battle nor did it take place in 387 BC. See also Talk:Siege of Syracuse (397 BC)#Title Proofreader (talk) 23:57, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep and tag with {{R from incorrect name}} and {{R from move}} as this was the title of the article for the first 5 years of its existence. – Uanfala (talk) 10:32, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep and tag per Uanfala. Thryduulf (talk) 13:46, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Definitely. This is not really an incorrect name/title, since that just applies to the part of the title that's not in parentheses, and there were most assuredly battles. I'll admit, this is not made crystal clear in the article; however, what leads us to think there was fighting is the sentence in the lead, "The Carthaginians followed a strategy which the Athenians had used in 415 BC, and were successful in isolating Syracuse." When one goes to Peloponnesian War and reads about the Sicilian Expedition, it becomes obvious that there was some blood shed on both sides, hence a battle(s) – probably not much of one. Anyway, the incorrectness is found in the qualifier, so the tags should be {{R from move}}, {{R from alternative name}}, {{R from incorrect disambiguation}} and, of course, {{R unprintworthy}}. I've tagged it as such. Good search phrase.  Paine Ellsworth  u/c 18:33, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Alright, tag it then as per Uanfala. Didn't know that redirects with incorrect names are accepted as long as they are tagged accordingly (and personally I still think this misnomed redirect is useless as no-one will ever type in such a name searching for the siege in 397 BC), so as this seems to be standard policy you may just as well keep it. For the sake of correctness I fixed all the links though that led to this redirect. --Proofreader (talk) 18:07, 28 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Baunnee Martinez[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was Speedy delete per WP:CSD#R3 (recently created implausible redirect). I don't think G10 (attack pages) applies here given the target article. A7 does not apply to redirects, and while G3 (vandalism) might be relevant I'm not certain. Thryduulf (talk) 13:49, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

What? Delete this. It's gotta be a WP:G10. Steel1943 (talk) 23:09, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Speedy delete G3, A7 as with Samuel Waldow. Editor had created these redirects of some random alumni from Troy High School. [1] They are not notable and are not connected to the subject manner. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 02:24, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Kastrítsi, Greece[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete the reidrects ending in "-io", keep the others. Thryduulf (talk) 13:20, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete the lot. Same rationale as for Kato Kastritsi and Ano Kastritsi, below. The only one I have a doubt over is the last, which uses the Greek diacritic and is in the nominative case. Narky Blert (talk) 00:27, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete all of them so many redirects for use of diacritics is unnecessary and confusing. DrStrauss talk 15:03, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix (talk) 18:21, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep the -i and the -ion versions as I'm getting lots of search results for -ion, including ", Greece" as location but only in travel sites and earthquake maps. Delete the -io versions. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 23:39, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment by nom. Kastritsi is a DAB page, so per WP:INTDAB should not be a target page. Any redirects into it should only be there to help navigation. Narky Blert (talk) 00:00, 28 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Idea. I've been pondering this for a few days, originally with an intention to close this, but eventually dug into the issue with this place name. (I'm a recreational linguistician who has been learning both Koine Greek and Modern Greek in recent months, but I'm not proficient in either yet.)
    • According to el:Άνω Καστρίτσι Αχαΐας, there used to be only one Kastritsion. It was founded in the 14-15th centuries. Then around 1940, settlers from Kastritsi went to build another village nearby. They called the new village "New Kastritsi" or "Lower Kastritsi" (Kato Kastritsi), so the original village became "Upper Kastritsi" (Ano Kastritsi).
    • (Greek language history) Modern Greek displaced Katharevousa (based on Koine Greek grammar) as the primary written form of the Greek language in the mid-20th century, around the time when Lower Kastritsi was planted.
    • (Greek grammar) Καστρίτσιον is the attested Katharevousa spelling of Καστρίτσι. The archaic spelling is used to refer to both villages in some official records - and some Wikipedia articles. See el:Δήμος Ρίου. A web search for "Καστρίτσιο" (with or without accent) returns only mojibake errors and one website of questionable quality so I'm quite confident it's not an attested alternative spelling.
    • BUT because of the Greek language question's timing, a web search for "Καστρίτσιον" shows mainly results referring to what is now Upper Kastritsi (by a ratio of about 5:1). All uses of "Kastritsion" unqualified by "Ano" or "Kato" refer to the original village before it divided into two, i.e. today's Upper village. On the other hand, a web search for "Καστρίτσι" reveals roughly equal measure of both villages.
    • All the accents in the "Kastritsi" and "Kastritsion" redirect forms are in the correct places - same as where they should be in Greek-alphabet text.
    • Combining all these findings, my recommendations are:
      • Delete everything "Kastritsio" as wrong.
      • Keep everything "Kastritsi" pointing to the disambiguation page.
      • Keep everything "Ano Kastritsi" and "Ano Kastritsion" pointing to Ano Kastritsi.
      • Keep everything "Kato Kastritsi" and "Kato Kastritsion" pointing to Kato Kastritsi.
      • But retarget everything "Kastritsion" without Ano or Kato to Ano Kastritsi because a reader who comes across "Kastritsion" unqualified, whether in Greek or English, is likely reading a story about the original Kastritsion village, now called Ano Kastritsi. Deryck C. 22:46, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment by nom. I'll buy User:Deryck Chan's proposal. "-i" is demotic (OK), "-ion" is katharevousa (OK), "-io" is what the locals informally call the place (so, no).
(When I found this lot, all 30+ redirects, including the "Ano" and "Kato" ones, were pointing to the same DAB page. I screamed.) Narky Blert (talk) 03:26, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I know the feeling – reminds me of the vague despair I have about the 130 or so redirects to Baloch people. – Uanfala (talk) 04:01, 12 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
@Narky Blert: Interesting... I haven't come across "-io" as a colloquial name in my searches. Deryck C. 10:18, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Kato Kastritsi, Greece[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete the "-io" forms, keep' the others. Note I've taken into account the discussion of these redirects in the section above as well as in this section. Thryduulf (talk) 13:24, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete the lot. See also Áno Kastrítsion, Greece, below. The only redirect which makes even the slightest sense to me is the last one, which preserves the diacritics in el:Κάτω Καστρίτσι Αχαΐας. 2011 population = 758. Narky Blert (talk) 23:59, 12 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Delete all of them so many redirects for use of diacritics is unnecessary and confusing. DrStrauss talk 15:02, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix (talk) 18:21, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all the "Kastritsio" forms as wrong; keep all the "Kato Kastritsi" and "Kato Kastritsion" forms as correct romanizations of correct Greek names. See my comment in the section above for further explanation. Deryck C. 22:48, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Áno Kastrítsion, Greece[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was delete the -io forms, keep the rest. The comments at #Kastrítsi, Greece above and in this section have both been taken into account when making this decision. Thryduulf (talk) 13:30, 13 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Delete the lot. #1-6 should be uncontroversial: the qualifier "Greece" is unnecessary. IMO the only one which might deserve keeping is the last one, which is a transliteration with diacritics of the Greek name: el:Άνω Καστρίτσι Αχαΐας. However, Ano Kastritsi is a village with 832 inhabitants as of 2011, and (a) IMHO redirects like this just clutter up Wiki and (b) how many English-speakers add diacritical marks to transliterations of current Greek names? Narky Blert (talk) 23:23, 12 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep Ano Kastritsi, Greece, and probably keep the other four with no diacritics, depending on whether those forms are actually used — e.g. would a Hellene refer to the place as "Ano Kastritsio" in certain grammatical contexts? Having the ", Greece" is helpful for Americans who typically put the country name after the placename as if it were a US state; see Paris, France or Athens, Greece for two examples, or the annoying "City State" (for US locations) versus "City Country" (for other countries) chosen by LDS Church leaders for the places listed at List of LDS temples. Putting ", Greece" after the placename, if the placename is a good redirect, is almost always a good idea for any place in Greece. I have no idea whether the diacriticised versions are a good idea or not. Nyttend (talk) 23:36, 12 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Comment. Point taken on the ", Greece" qualifier, however unnecessary it might be. Input from a native Greek-speaker would be useful here; as far as my shaky Greek goes, I understand that "-o" or "-ou" usually represents the genitive, and "-on" the accusative, case (at least in the singular, "-όν" and "-ών" are not the same). Narky Blert (talk) 01:01, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Narky Blert, I've left a message at the Greek Wikipedia's Village Pump asking people to come here and participate in this discussion (and the two above it) if they understand English. Nyttend (talk) 01:38, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Bilingual Greek-English editor here, after seeing Nyttend's note in the Greek village pump:) First of all, all these redirects for Καστρίτσι, Άνω Καστρίτσι and Κάτω Καστρίτσι (this is the way a typical modern Greek would say the names of the villages in the 21st century) are impressive to say the least. Without going into intricate grammar details and terminology (I'm an engineer), what I can say with certainty here is that such "-on" types are remnants of Katharevousa and are not commonly used in Greece nowadays (Demotic Greek is the official language of the Greek state for several decades now). On the other hand, there are some old road signs still around in the Greek countryside that use the Katharevousa names of places (it used to be the language for formal state purposes up until the late seventies if I am not mistaken: I lived in the US until 1980 so I can't be sure). So it would be useful to keep these redirects if it so happens that these villages in the prefecture of Achaia still have old signs, or in any case they may be mentioned in Katharevousa form in old writings so they may prove useful. Please note that the form is το (Άνω = Upper, Κάτω = Lower) Καστρίτσιον, which is nominative and neutral gender (i.e. not related to the point Narky Blert has made above: true about -ou and -on, and -όν/ών are indeed not the same, but this is irrelevant here). Hope this was helpful, feel free to ping me if you need more input, cheers from Greece:)--Saintfevrier (talk) 07:13, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all of them so many redirects for use of diacritics is unnecessary and confusing. DrStrauss talk 15:02, 13 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix (talk) 18:21, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete all the "Kastritsio" forms as wrong; keep all the "Ano Kastritsi" and "Ano Kastritsion" forms as correct romanizations of correct Greek names. See my comment two sections above for further explanation. Deryck C. 22:48, 9 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Günther Nowak[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was retarget to List of Knight's Cross of the Iron Cross recipients#Non-existent recipients. (non-admin closure) – Uanfala (talk) 17:58, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The subject is mentioned in List_of_Knight's_Cross_of_the_Iron_Cross_recipients#Non-existent_recipients but it's unclear why a "non-existent" recipient should have a redirect. K.e.coffman (talk) 20:29, 12 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Tavix (talk) 18:21, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Handbagging[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 February 11#Handbagging

Template:Fuck off[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was procedural close. Target deleted. (non-admin closure)  Paine Ellsworth  u/c 01:49, 30 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:CIVIL. ~ Rob13Talk 08:06, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • delete. This is unused - just two mentions (not uses, fortunately) (one of which is the link to this discussion) and one link from an archive of Jimbo's talk page but I can't easily find the link to see if it is a use or a mention. There is no way that it can be used in a way that is both civil and understood to be civil by an outside observer. Thryduulf (talk) 11:30, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • We can't know whether it has been used or not, because it's meant to be substituted (and hence the instances of proper use won't show up in "what links here"). I'm not really seeing the civility issues, as in the vast majority of cases the uncivil title isn't going to show up anywhere (if the template is substed, as it's supposed to be). On the contrary, it seems to me that this redirect contributes to more civility: a pissed off editor could vent their anger by typing {{subst:fuck off}}, which would then produce an innocuous message. If that editor didn't have access to this harmless, oblique way of telling someone to fuck off, they would be likely to do it in a more blunt and uncivil manner. – Uanfala (talk) 13:51, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep—I left this redirect behind when I moved the template originally created by Herostratus to the more-civil name {{Back away}}. Since the template is intended to always be substituted, and anyone searching for the templated text would find the title "Back away" instead of "Fuck off" after the move, I don't think this redirect is particularly harmful. There is at least one archived discussion that would break if this redirect were deleted. –Grondemar 14:13, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Weak keep. Yes, as Uanfala states, the purpose of this template is for it to be substituted, so its importance by transclusions cannot be ascertained since there should be no transclusions. That, and the redirect clearly targets the template it should. (With that being said, I would probably vote "weak delete" for its target template if it were nominated at WP:TFD as an unnecessary warning template, but that's a discussion for another day. I mean, delete the target template, delete this redirect per WP:CSD#G8...) Steel1943 (talk) 19:17, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep (only if target is kept per Herostratus below) – I read where after Abe Lincoln died, many unsent letters mostly to US Grant were found in his desk. Evidently he would write the letters just to get stuff off his chest and then sock them away unsent. That's what this subbed template does. It gets stuff off your chest without actually being "sent".  Paine Ellsworth  u/c 16:51, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well, I wrote the template as a humorous exposition on something Jimbo said on his talk page. It's probably best being treated as ephemara and both the template and redirect deleted. Moving the template kind of spoiled the joke anyway, and I don't think the template has much use, or is going to be popular or much used. IFF the recipient is "in" on the joke (unlikely), she well see "Look, I feel as if our current interaction isn't helping..." and realize the person actually wrote "back off" or even "fuck off" (I believe she can look in the page history to see which? not sure), and be either amused or insulted according to her predilection.
I will now nominate the template for deletion. If the template is deleted, this redirect will perforce be deleted also. If the template is not deleted... deleting this redirect will spoil the joke, but on the other hand I guess a person could use it to be actually insulting... assuming the recipient is aware of what was really written to produce "Look, I feel as if our current interaction isn't helping..."... I mean, I would be amused, but another person might be actually insulted I guess, and we don't need to host template that could (theoretically anyway) actually hurt a person's feelings. So delete.
Deletion discussion for the actual target template is here. Herostratus (talk) 16:25, 28 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Samuel Waldow[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was speedy delete per WP:CSD#R3 - a recently created implausible redirect. CSD criterion G3 (vandalism) may also apply, but A7 (and all other A criteria) do not apply to redirects. Thryduulf (talk) 13:51, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Newly created redirect, meaningless. - CHAMPION (talk) (contributions) (logs) 06:28, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • (speedy) Delete. There are several people called Samuel Waldow, none of whom are immediately obviously notable. The only page not related to this redirect Google finds for the search "Samuel Waldow" bourgeoisie is [2] which doesn't help as it doesn't immediately appear to include any of the three words searched for. Unless the creator can come up with a good explanation, I would not be unhappy with speedy deleting this under criterion R3. It is also not impossible that it intended to be descriptive of a person the creator knows personally, but whether that person would consider this description a compliment or an insult I obviously don't know and it's so ambiguous that I don't think I would support a G10 speedy as an attack page, particularly as an R3 would have the same end result. Thryduulf (talk) 11:38, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Speedy delete looking at the recent activity of Parablooper who created this and Baunnee Martinez both of whom were alumni from Troy High School, [3] [4] and neither of these have anything to do with the page where they were redirected to. CSD for G3 and A7. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 02:19, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Miami 2017 (Seen the Lights go out on Broadway)[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was no consensus (non-admin closure) – This is the kind of capitalisation variant that tends to split opinions here, so further discussion is unlikely to result in a different outcome. Noting that the target article has a host of redirects for capitalisation variants, some of which probably stand a slightly better chance of receiving consensus for deletion. – Uanfala (talk) 15:42, 7 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

An unlikely redirect that is now only a capitalization redirect, so old that it hasn't been touched except by bots since 2008 and nobody even noticed that its original target (Miami 2017 (Seen the Lights Go Out on Broadway)) was back on Wikipedia. Closeapple (talk) 05:30, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

  • Keep. Redirects from other capitalisations are generally kept as they are at worst harmless and at best very useful. You've fixed the target, so there is nothing more to do here as far as I'm concerned. Thryduulf (talk) 11:40, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete This is a mix of capital and lower-case that doesn't make sense to retain as news articles will use 1) the properly capped one, YouTube 2) sentence case "Seen the lights go out on Broadway" or 3) All caps on first letters of all words, which is also what the back of the album cover stylizes. Billy Joel website with lyrics supporting cases #2 and #3 Lights is not a proper noun to be capped separately from the others. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 00:54, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment please see Miami 2017 (Seen the Lights go Out on Broadway) as another one to consider removing. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 01:00, 27 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep. Harmless. -- Tavix (talk) 17:08, 6 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Capital of Washington[edit]

The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more redirects. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the redirect's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the discussion was keep (non-admin closure). @AngusWOOF: I'm leaving it to editor discretion whether a hatnote pointing to Washington Capitol should be added. Personally, I don't see it as necessary unless Washington capital too is redirected there. – Uanfala (talk) 17:46, 5 February 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ambiguous, could as well refer to Washington, D.C. for anyone not familiar with U.S. administrative divisions, especially the difference between Washington, D.C. and Washington State. - CHAMPION (talk) (contributions) (logs) 03:08, 26 January 2017 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page.

Template:R from title[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 February 5#Template:R from title

United States capital[edit]

Relisted, see Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2017 February 10#United States capital

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