Wikipedia:Peer review/Truce terms/archive1

Truce terms

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A script has been used to generate a semi-automated review of the article for issues relating to grammar and house style; it can be found on the automated peer review page for March 2009.

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because It is a relatively discreet and minor topic and I have utilised all the sources I can find. I would hope to pursue GA and possibly even FA later. If anybody is aware of any other sources, particularly relating to other countries I'd be deleriously happy. Thanks, Fainites ^barleyscribs 12:37, 9 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is an interesting topic!

Glad you like it.Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would imagine that there is a little bit more research on this area, but I am only familiar with the English language tradition. I did manage to find the following article on Google Scholar.

Herbert and Mary Knapp, Tradition and Change in American Playground Language, Journal of American Folklore 86.340 (Apr - June 1973): 131-141.

Thanks! I missed this one. What I would really like to find is a) more up-to-date research (the only really recent stuff I've found is antipodean) and b) anything from non-British derived cultures, Europe, the Middle East, Africa, Asia etc. I did contact an author of a recent book on Playground Lore but she hadn't included anything on truce terms. She was going to look back through her research material for me though.Fainites ^barleyscribs 17:33, 13 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I don't know the best way to find that material. If you know other languages, perhaps you could leave messages on other language wikis? Awadewit (talk) 20:44, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

In general, I think that the article could use some copyediting to clarify and condense. Here are some examples:

Examples of use are if a child has a stitch or wants to raise a point on the rules of the game. - I think this sentence is a bit unclear. The reader expects the second sentence of the article to have examples of the phrases, whereas this sentence gives examples of when such phrases are used. Rewording this sentence would make it clearer.

Done.Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Traditionally these terms are specific to certain geographical areas although some are group words. - I'm not sure the contrast "although some are group words" is meant to convey.

Done. It means social group - ie posh kids.Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The lead switches between referring to "truce terms" in the plural and singular - it is confusing to the reader. I would suggest sticking with either "truce terms" or "truce term".

Thanks.Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Recorded incidents of use of truce terms are - I think it could be made clearer to the reader that these are instances in which truce terms are used.

Done.Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Recorded incidents of use of truce terms are; being out of breath, a stitch, undone shoelace, fear of clothes being damaged, needing to go to the lavatory, checking the time, wanting to discuss or clarify rules during a fight or game, or when one combatant wants to remove their spectacles or jacket before continuing. - This list should be constructed as a parallelism (grammar).

I've tried this but grammar is not my strong point. Can you give me an example? Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This is a list and the grammar of each phrase needs to match all of the others. So, for example, "being out of breath" is not "parallel to" or the same as "a stitch". "Being" is verbal phrase (beginning with a verbal participle) while "a stitch" is a noun phrase. "Being out of breath", "needing to go to the lavatory", "checking the time", and "wanting to discuss or clarify the rules during a fight or game" all match (-ing verbs). The entire sentence needs to be rewritten so that all of the phrases have the same grammatical. Does that help? Awadewit (talk) 20:43, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Aah. Fainites ^barleyscribs 23:24, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The southern boundary of the Danelaw (to the north of London) is marked by the speech of young children of which vainites is a surviving example. - I found this sentence a bit confusing.

Done. Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Truce terms are described by Peter Trudgill in Dialects of England as being particularly rich in regional variation as they are not based on official or television culture - Are there any specific examples you could give the reader?

I've put it with the Opie bit where they explain about regional variations and give examples of the etymology. Is this OK? Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Moved again to 'post opie' bit.Fainites ^barleyscribs 23:35, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I would add a citation for each word's entry. Generally, at least each paragraph needs a citation.

Done.Fainites ^barleyscribs 23:57, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

It is recorded specifically as a term used to demand truce by children in Jamieson's 1808 Scottish Dictionary. - Do we have a first name for Jamieson? Check throughout the article that all people are mentioned by first and last name and given a brief descriptor in the text.

Done.Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've added two images to the article to brighten it up a bit. I tried to choose images that were appropriate. Feel free to remove or replace them if you think they don't work well.

Thanks very much. It would be difficult to find a picture specifically illustrating use of a truce term. What would be nice would be to be able to reproduce one of the Opies maps. They did several.Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ruhrfisch might be able to help you out with out - he makes maps. Awadewit (talk) 20:38, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The "Thoume" (thumb) that is "sklyss" (sliced) in the quote above may refer to the thumb having been raised by the man calling barlafummill - Some readers may not read all of the sections, so "the quote above" may not make sense to them.

Done.Fainites ^barleyscribs 19:21, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I hope these suggestions are helpful! Awadewit (talk) 20:37, 12 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'd always assumed barley came from Parley, especially as the Scots and French were always in cahoots. It seems a bit too much of a coincidence to have two almost identical words meaning "truce" but I can't find a source to this effect. Fainites ^barleyscribs 23:25, 15 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thinking about it though, it could have the same source as belay as in "stop" or "cease". Fainites ^barleyscribs 20:05, 20 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've read the expanded section on American terms. I copyedited it a bit - it looks good to me. Awadewit (talk) 02:20, 27 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks. I've contacted the National Australian Dictionary Center to see if they have anything. Fainites ^barleyscribs 22:31, 29 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]