Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2018 March 21

Help desk
< March 20	<< Feb | March | Apr >>	March 22 >

Welcome to the Wikipedia Help Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current Help Desk pages.

March 21

RIP Peter :(

Sadly, I have to report the demise of a Wikipedia editor, User:Peter Entwisle (for details, see the article on him, Peter Entwisle). Is there any message/template which can be added to his talk page to stop automated responses from being added to it? Also, are there any other task which need to be performed re his account? Grutness...wha? 00:51, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Hi Grutness, sorry to hear of Peter's passing. The guidelines for a deceased user are here and would maybe also suggest maybe putting this template on their page. NZFC^(talk) 01:55, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Thanks. Grutness...wha? 02:22, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Can you please accept my revised draft of Leisa Goddard?

Hi,

I've reviewed the article and made changes according to give more reliable sources. Can you please let me know if this can be approved asap? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lady250 (talk • contribs) 01:19, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Lady250, according to our BLP and Verfiability policies, you would need to provide a reliable source for each claim in the biography. You've worked on the article, yes, but there are still many statements that are not supported by reliable sources – that is, I don't see citations at the end of so many statements. Either delete all those statements that are not supported by reliable sources, or provide reliable sources. If you do that, the editors who have already commented similarly on your draft page, will themselves approve the article. Thanks, Lourdes 03:18, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

(edit conflict)Hello, Lady250. You haven't yet clicked the "Resubmit" button. That is how you ask reviewers to look at your revised draft. However, before you do, I would advise adding at least one source citation to the first and third paragraphs of the Journalism career section before you do. Note that there is a significant backlog for reviewing, and it may take some time for this draft to be reviewed. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 03:38, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

220.133.245.150 (talk) 02:51, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Can I create my own articles while using information provided by a copyright website, while these information are just common data as copyright protect the expression, but not include any information or concept itself (Iit is not possible to "use my own word" because I can't change these names, are just a "XXX is a restaurant with a 3 star of Miqilin" basis)? 220.133.245.150 (talk) 02:51, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

You may, and indeed should, copy facts from sources. Facts include the names of things, so "Joe's Deli is a restaurant in Exampletown." would not be a copyright violation. You must, however, be careful not to copy detailed phrasing beyond very obvious facts that cannot easily be expressed in other forms, and you should also avoid close paraphrasing, or retaining the sentence structure while changing the exact words. Be sure to cite the websites or other sources from which you derive the facts. In describing a person, place or concept, it can and should be described in your own words. DES ^(talk)_{DESiegel Contribs} 03:13, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

By the way, to create a new article you need to use a registered Wikipedia account. When you have registered, it is best to use your account name when posting to noticeboards like this one. That way we can notify you when there is any reply: Noyster (talk), 11:47, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

I am being targeted as anti-christian and pro-muslim

Where should I complain for this personal attack. I am not antichristian and not pro-muslim. I respect both religions equally even though I am neither Christian or Muslim. There is a hint that I use sock puppets, nothing further from truth. Τζερόνυμο (talk) 09:43, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Well Τζερόνυμο since you didn't wait for a reply but already took the matter to ANI, there's probably no more to be said here: Noyster (talk), 11:39, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Well, yes : Noyster...I did found my way by googling the Question. Maybe I 'll do that first next time. Τζερόνυμο (talk) 11:43, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Twinkle help/support/suggestions?

Is there a central location for suggestions or comments about Twinkle? I've looked through all the docs I can find, but none seem to list this - apart from Wikipedia:Twinkle#History which lists a few contributors to the gadget. Chaheel Riens (talk) 09:58, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Chaheel Riens Presume you've tried Wikipedia talk:Twinkle and its 39 archives?: Noyster (talk), 11:33, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

D'oh! Chaheel Riens (talk) 12:07, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Changing Articles

Hello,

I wanted to ask you, how I can change/update a page about a film which the Production Company, where I work, produced. I already changed it but the Admin Lugnuts changed everything back.

Thank you for your help.

LesFilmsFauves (talk) 13:02, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

@LesFilmsFauves: The changes seem to have been removed as they were a copy violation. Basically, you cannot use anything copied from elswhere on the web due to copyright issues. Please see WP:CV for more information. Also, as you seem to have a connection to the subject, you must read both WP:COI and WP:PAID and make the necessary disclosures. You should make edit requests on the article talk page. Thank you. Eagleash (talk) 13:54, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

(ec) LesFilmsFauves since you have a conflict of interest⋅, you should not edit the article directly at all, but instead make suggestions, with independent verifiable sources on the article talk page. The image you added was copyright without evidence that it had been released for anyone to use for any purpose as required here. I've blocked your user name because it appears to represent a company, which is not permitted Jimfbleak - talk to me? 13:58, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Help with categories

Hi I am not sure how to fix up the category errors. I keep on being passed to instruction pages https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Brandon_Merrill&editintro=Template%3ABLP_editintro d[@-@]b (talk) 13:28, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

@Wakelamp: The last category had curly, instead of square, brackets so displayed (part of) the cat page. Eagleash (talk) 13:46, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Enquiry

I wish to add the name Of Jayant Vishnu Narlikar to Emeritus Professor Category in India, but I am unable to edit that page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.16.223.2 (talk) 14:05, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

 Done Category has been added to the page... Please remember to sign your posts on talk pages by typing four tildes (~~~~). Eagleash (talk) 14:33, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

New article/category/stub page

Hi, I have created between 50 and 100 articles and categories on Wikipedia but not for over a year or so. There was a page where I could create articles live into Wikipedia for experienced users. That page/option no longer seems to exist. How do I create new articles live, request new categories, etc?Gomach (talk) 15:10, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

You can create an article directly in main space by simple typing its name into the search box, Gomach. I don't advise that (I'd always suggest using the AFC process) but you can. I'm not sure what page you are talking about. As for categories, you can create a new category simply by adding it to some pages. --ColinFine (talk) 15:51, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

You can use the boxes in Wikipedia:Your first article but it's just as easy to use the normal search box on any page. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:48, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Somewhat surreptitious changes

Can someone with access to academic sources please check this? An anon changed a number in Anglo-Indian, which links to an academic article I can't read. It may well be a change IGF - ie they might have access to the article, and wanted to correct an error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Carbon Caryatid (talk • contribs)

@Carbon Caryatid: The linked diff changed 4,00,000 to 400,000 so it didn't change the number 400000 with five zeros. It only changed the notation away from the Indian numbering system which places commas differently. But the previous edit [1] changed a large interval "Est. 300,000 – 1,000,000" to "Est. 4,00,000". It's inside the interval but I don't know whether the source supports it, and the edit also changed other numbers. PrimeHunter (talk) 16:43, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Sorry, I meant to include both changes in my diff. I am aware of Indian number notation; it was the actual change from the wide (and possibly higher) number to the more precise one that I am querying. Carbon Caryatid (talk) 17:43, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Strange behavior with nested collapsed tables

I'm trying to figure out what controls this behavior. If I nest multiple collapsed tables, then expand one level (so the button now shows "hide"), all of the inner collapsed levels change from "show" to "hide" as well, even though they are still collapsed.

You can see this behavior here:

Test 1

Test 2

Test 5 Test 5 random text. Lorem ipsum dolor blah blah blah blah.

Test 3

Test 6 Test 6 containing more random text. Lorem ipsum dolor blah blah blah blah.

Test 4 Random text

Any ideas why it's doing it that way? Any ideas how to fix it so the inner still-collapsed levels don't have the "show/hide" button change to match the outer level? Thanks for any help. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 20:37, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

See Phabricator:T168689. Ruslik_Zero 21:40, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

I see what you describe above. {{Navbox with collapsible groups}} doesn't have this behavior. I don't know what makes the difference. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:51, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter: Yeah, for my purposes I need collapsed tables, not a navbox. I suppose I could try to duplicate the formatting of the tables in the navbox to fix it, but it would be better if this bug was just fixed. It didn't used to happen. @Ruslik0: Thanks for pointing me to the phab ticket. ···日本穣 · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe · Join WP Japan! 23:04, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

New Page submitted with Page Name error

My first creating a new page and I made a major error. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Draft:Company_Page

Somehow I pasted "Draft: Company Page" over my title replacing the original title I started with "GEM Equipment of Oregon". Unfortunately, I didn't notice the change until after I hit "submit" so I can't edit it.

Will this be corrected during the new page review process OR do I have to make a special request to have it corrected so it is not rejected? — Preceding unsigned comment added by SARogersGEM (talk • contribs) 21:47, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

@SARogersGEM: It would be corrected if the page is accepted but it can create confusion so I moved it to Draft:GEM Equipment of Oregon. Your account is too new to move pages. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:56, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

By the way, see Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) for what the draft should satisfy. PrimeHunter (talk) 21:58, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter:Thank you for editing the page name. I also appreciate the link to the Wikipedia:Notability (organizations and companies) page. My company is actually the worldwide leader in our specialized segment of manufacturing; however, I haven't been able to locate sufficient references to cite so I didn't include the statement on the page. I assumed I could add that information later, but now I'm concerned it will be rejected because of the omission. --SARogersGEM (talk) 22:37, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

@SARogersGEM: Thanks for not including an unsourced claim. The mentioned claim would at least require an independent reliable source. The current content would probably be declined. You would get a chance to improve and resubmit it. You are also very welcome to make changes while it's awaiting review. When a reviewer gets to it they will review the version at the time. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:45, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

You say it's your company so see Wikipedia:Paid-contribution disclosure. PrimeHunter (talk) 22:48, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

@PrimeHunter:Thank you again for the assistance. I have created a user page and added the disclosure. Good to know I have some time to search for that independent source; hopefully I can update the page before then. --SARogersGEM (talk) 23:21, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Can I draw railway tracks layout of a railway station or yard?

but only available source is aerial imagery of Google Earth, is it able?125.230.18.101 (talk) 22:22, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Please clarify your question. Are you trying to add an image to a Wikipedia article? RudolfRed (talk) 22:47, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, but not put directly google earth imagery, I will draw self about these railway tracks layout myself and licensing as CC-by-sa while information itself are not covered by copyright125.230.18.101 (talk) 23:02, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

• Yes, are allowed to add your own work if it does not violate copyright, and your proposal does not violate copyright. Specifically: the Google Earth photos are copyrighted (under a truly tortured extension of copyright law) because the photographer is assumed to have contributed "creative elements" such as selecting the camera angle and lighting. However, the actual content that you are abstracting (i.e., the track layout) is not a copyrightable creative element, but is rather a collection of facts. Your drawing is your representation of these facts. If you intend to add your drawing to a Wikipedia article, you must provide a reference to a reliable source. In this case, simply state in the description of your drawing that the layout was in the photographic image you found at Google Earth. Give the (latitiude, longitude, atlitude, and angle info). This is equivalent to giving the page number in a book cite. Please put your drawing at wikicommons, since it has your CC-BY-SA license, and please use SVG if you can do so easily, since scalable graphics are in general the best choice for Wikipedia articles. Come back here if you have questions. And thanks for your work! -Arch dude (talk) 02:47, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Apparent system error causing mass deletions on talk page

Hi,

I made this edit

which, as you see, deleted 17,564 characters from a talk page, in non-contiguous sections. It was quickly reverted here

I am absolutely certain that I did not delete any of that material, intentionally or accidentally. I would never intentionally delete anyone's comments, and I would certainly be aware if I accidentally deleted 17,564 characters in non-contiguous sections, and I did not. My edit simply added this sentence and nothing else:

"I encourage anyone to make comparisons because: "Since Mr. Trump became a presidential candidate, PolitiFact has evaluated more than 500 assertions and found 69 percent of them mostly false, false or “pants on fire” false. By comparison, it judged 26 percent of the statements by Mr. Obama that it evaluated as false and the same percentage for those by Hillary Clinton"

I am now being accused of acting maliciously. Please research this issue to see if the WP database "burped" in some way. Has anyone else reported similar issues?

Thank you. soibangla (talk) 22:31, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

The most likely scenario is that you were viewing an earlier revision in the Talk page history and then chose to edit it. By saving your edits which were based on that older revision, you effectively deleted any comments added after that revision (regardless of the section in which they had been added). Always wise to make sure that when you choose to edit a page, you are editing the most recent revision of that page. A red band below the page title (and just below it links to navigate between previous and subsequent revisions) will generally appear when this is not the case (assuming you are not using a mobile Wikipedia client or browser). General Ization ^Talk 22:36, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Thank you, but how does that explain these peculiar and massive non-contiguous deletions? And if this sort of error is possible, then surely it would be commonly known by highly experienced editors, yet some such editors have accused me of malicious behavior. soibangla (talk) 22:49, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

If my theory is correct, the removed material would be contiguous temporally (in terms of when it was added), not positionally (in terms of its location on the page). General Ization ^Talk 22:51, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

And indeed they are, if you look carefully at the timestamps. As I said below, I don't see that anyone's accusing you of acting maliciously; they're simply disagreeing with your insistence that it's a system problem. General Ization ^Talk 22:53, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

The editor who restored the edits you deleted appears from their edit summary to have made the same assumption, and did not malign you. Who is doing so and where? General Ization ^Talk 22:40, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Ah, I see the comments on your Talk page. I don't see that anyone's accusing you of anything, but I see skepticism about your claim that this is a system error, and I am equally skeptical. Especially since you say it's the third time this has happened to you, I suspect this issue is procedural, not technical. General Ization ^Talk 22:46, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

"Hard to believe" is an accusation, IMO. I find it difficult to believe that such a "procedural" issue could be possible without a user being presented with a big, fat warning message upon a commit. Again, is this issue prevalent? soibangla (talk) 22:53, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

As I said above, I don't see that anyone's accusing you of acting maliciously; they're simply disagreeing with your insistence that it's a system problem. And no, there is no big fat warning message if you inadvertently do this, in part because in some cases that is precisely what you want to do (though generally not on a Talk page). General Ization ^Talk 22:55, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

"I don't see that anyone's accusing you" We disagree. "in some cases that is precisely what you want to do" — I submit that in the vast majority of cases a user would not want to do that, and catering to the tiny majority of users who would want to results in a potentially catastrophic error for the vast majority. Again, is this error prevalent, please? soibangla (talk) 23:05, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Yes, it has happened before, and it often happens with new editors who are unfamiliar with the fact that every revision of a page is retained in history and can be used (intentionally or otherwise) as the basis for a new revision (essentially a fork, for those of a programming mindset). I'm not saying that you're new, but apparently new to this circumstance, and perhaps new to editing a page that is so rapidly being edited as Talk:Donald Trump so as to magnify the issue.) General Ization ^Talk 23:09, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

I watch Talk:Donald Trump, it's not that active during, say, an hour. And it certainly wasn't that active this morning, when I prepared my edit elsewhere, logged in, loaded Talk:Donald Trump fresh and promptly posted my edit. I suggest that the TP back-end has a concurrency issue that is being "resolved" by a warning message that is not properly placed for a user to see. And, as we've seen, it can have catastrophic consequences that can cause users to suspect malicious activity (and some may have observed that but not this exculpatory discussion, so the suspicion "sticks.") soibangla (talk) 01:12, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

By the way, please click here. This is a link into the page history of your Talk page, to an old revision. You will see a warning message at the top of the editor (depending on what client you're using): "You are editing an old revision of this page. If you publish it, any changes made since then will be removed. You may wish to edit the current revision instead." (in which current revision is a link you can click to load that version). General Ization ^Talk 23:17, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

Please note that that message appears above the edit box and is thus not visible as a user moves below the edit box to complete the edit summary and preview/publish, rendering the message ineffective. Perhaps the message belongs below the edit box. soibangla (talk) 01:00, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

You could be right, though I will say that the placement of these key components of the editing interface is most likely based on usability studies that have revealed where most editors are likely to see the notice. In any case, it's unlikely that anyone who can consider your suggestion and possibly implement it is to be found here at the Help Desk, which doesn't typically handle questions about changes to the interface. The best place to bring up this issue and your observation will be the Wikipedia:Village pump (technical). General Ization ^Talk 01:11, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

You can test this functionality yourself, in your own sandbox. General Ization ^Talk 23:00, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

You edited an old version however it happened. This diff shows which version. Some things vary with user settings but when you edit an old version you should normally see the red box at MediaWiki:Editingold, and also another red box starting "This is an old revision of this page". You are taking "Hard to believe" out of context. It was a reply to your "I strongly suggest the WP database is repeatedly hiccuping", and it said: "Hiccuping, only for you? Deleting selected comments and leaving others? Hard to believe." It was not an accusation that you were lying but a statement that your hiccup theory was probably false. I agree with that. I guess you have a habit of sometimes starting an edit from an old revision without noticing it or without knowing that it removes all edits since then. Diffs have edit links at the time stamps going to those versions. Maybe that's how it happens but I'm just guessing. I suggest using section edit links when possible. It's easier, it automatically gives an edit summary showing others you edited the section, and it's impossible to edit an old version because only the current version has section edit links. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:15, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

I believe it also makes it less likely that you will encounter an edit conflict on a page that is being rapidly edited, since you are not loading the entire page, only the section you wish to edit. This could be a real plus on a page like Talk:Donald Trump. General Ization ^Talk 23:43, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

• The deleted sections are spread out over a 2-3 hour period. Is it possible that you had the editor or talk page open for that span of time without refreshing? I've had this happen when I leave my computer for a few hours, come back and continue editing what is now the "old" version. It's not a problem on quieter pages where nobody else is editing but it can cause an edit conflict if others have published changes in the meantime. –dlthewave ☎ 23:50, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

"Is it possible that you had the editor or talk page open for that span of time...?" No, it was my first edit of the day, after I logged out the previous night. I pulled up the fresh page immediately before my edit. soibangla (talk) 00:56, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

This merely means that the old revision the editor selected as the base for their edit was 2-3 hours old when they loaded it -- not that they had it loaded and unsaved for hours. General Ization ^Talk 00:10, 22 March 2018 (UTC)

Publishing

I have published an article about the author Maurice Ryan. Yet, if I'm not signed in it doesn't appear when I search for the topic. Have a forgotten a step whilst publishing? Or do you need more references?

Thanks for your assistance. Warm regards,

Nicky — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nispijk (talk • contribs) 23:30, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

@Nispijk: What you have created is a 'draft' in your userpage. This is not what your userpage is for... it is for you to provide a little detail about yourself and how you intend to contribute to Wikipedia. The content should probaly be move to draftspace so you can continue to develop it. I have left some useful links at your talk page which should help you with creating content. Eagleash (talk) 23:36, 21 March 2018 (UTC)

I have moved your page from User:Nispijk to Draft:Maurice Ryan and added a box with information and a submit link. See Wikipedia:User pages for what User:Nispijk is for. PrimeHunter (talk) 23:45, 21 March 2018 (UTC)