Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2014 February 19

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February 19

Referencing help

I am stuck at the following message- There are <ref> tags on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist}} template (see the help page).

My story was rejected for a lack of references becasue I did not format them correctly. I have tried multiple times to format it but I am not getting it. Thank you- Hhrfan

Does WP:Referencing for beginners help?--ukexpat (talk) 03:52, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

I think Hhrfan was a little confused by those instructions. I have made an edit to his work-in-progress to show how to do references. Hhrfan, does my edit make it a little clearer? Astronaut (talk) 16:41, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Please check an external link for me?

In the article for Carrie Stevens it says that she runs a fudge company with her family. There's an external link in the article text. Granted, this could be formatted better. I'm not asking about that. Before I did any formatting or adding the link as a potential reference, I wanted to check the link. That's where I run into problems. I'm at work and my employer's net nanny software won't allow me to visit the link. So, could someone else check it, please? Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 04:00, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Dismas, it redirects to here but looks legit. --NeilN ^{talk to me} 04:09, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

NeilN, thanks. That site is blocked for me as well. Dismas|^(talk) 04:54, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

I am trying to create a Wikipedia topic. It gets disallowed, every time. There isn't anything wrong with it legally, or redundancy wise, or ... So, what is wrong with it?

I want to put together a group of pottery (plates and saucers type of pottery) makers marks. These marks go back as far as 250 years or more, though many are in current use. Perhaps someone could tell me what I'm doing wrong. Do I need a 20 page written article right off the top? It's my understanding (wrong perhaps), that you can start out with a little bit of it, have it critiqued, and work it into a first rate subject.

If it is not legal to take a photo of a makers mark, I'm fairly certain that I can draw one on paper and take a photo of my own drawing, explain it's a drawing of a a So & So trademark, and post the digitized drawing. I don't want to do anything illegal or immoral, and collecting bone china cups and saucers is about as exciting a hobby as watching mud dry and crack to most people. What is wrong?

It would be real easy at this point to say to myself that creation of a Wikipedia article is sufficiently complicated and opaque that it's a waste of time to even attempt to try to learn how. If on a practical basis, new topics aren't allowed, that's ok, but I don't see that spelled out anywhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Real Cabdriver (talk • contribs) 04:17, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Real Cabdriver, you can start out with a little bit, but it won't accepted out of WP:AFC into the main article space if it is too little. There must be at least enough to indicate what the article is about, and enough sources to indicate that the subject is notable. I assume this is about Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Real Cabdriver/sandbox. The decline comment said "This submission is not adequately supported by reliable sources. Reliable sources are required so that information can be verified" and the related comment said "Potentially interesting, but article needs more detail and external sources." You don't need a 20-pafge article, but you do need more than 2-3 sentences for it to be accepted. You also need at least two or three independent reliable sources that discuss the subject in some detail, say at least a paragraph or two each. Note that you can leave it in the draft state while you expand it, and only click "submit" when it is in better shape. see Your first article and referencing for beginners for more detail. Please tell us if these comments are not clear or are not helpful to you. DES ^(talk) 04:27, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Oh, Real Cabdriver, as to legality of images of marks, if the object is older than 1923, and you take the picture, there will be no copyright issue, otherwise, things may get a bit complicated. DES ^(talk) 04:30, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

The requirements for an encyclopedia article are that the subject has been covered in a non trivial manner by independent third party reliably published sources. Without coverage from those sources, your article will never get off the ground no matter how long it is. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 12:49, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

F*ck on Main page

Just a heads up about the main page article coming up on March 1st... 15.203.169.106 (talk) 07:34, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Could you be a little more specific as to what you are warning us about? From what you have said, I don't know which article on the Main Page you are referring to, how you know what is coming up on March 1 (apart from On this day, I didn't think it was set yet), and I don't know if you are warning us of vandalism, of controversial content (Wikipedia is not censored, but I think the main page usually avoids material which some might find troubling) or of some snafu. Or are you a troll? --ColinFine (talk) 12:29, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

@ColinFine: Please don't accuse editors of being trolls. See Wikipedia:Today's featured article/March 1, 2014. I'm not sure what the point of this IP's post to the helpdesk is for however. Pedro :  Chat  12:35, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

I apologise for the troll remark. But I could not find a way to discover what on earth the OP was talking about (they had not even indicated what part of the main page it related to) or what they were saying about it. --ColinFine (talk) 13:28, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

See long discussions in the nomination. April 1st is a day for making jokes. The front page features articles about topics that sound made-up or weird. --Enric Naval (talk) 13:17, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

@Enric Naval: are you confusing March 1st and April 1st? @ColinFine: I think you'll find that components of the main page are generally scheduled further in advance that you might think - see User:Bencherlite/Future TFAs, TFLs and POTDs which shows that TFAs and POTDs are scheduled for more than a fortnight, TFLs for a month. Bencherlite^Talk 14:03, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Yep, I am totally confusing them. I stroke that. In Spain we make jokes in 28th December, Day of the Innocents. --Enric Naval (talk) 18:22, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

I think the IP here is just shooting out a message to any helpdesk people who might not realize that we may get an uptick in page complaints while that article is featured on the Main Page. - Purplewowies (talk) 20:32, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

• I concur with the assessment of wowies. It's a warning that when F*CK is featured on the Main page per the consensus achieved that there will likely be more requests for and complaints because Wikipedia is NOTCENSORED. Perhaps the TFA people could include a Disclaimer:

Before complaining about this, remember that Wikipedia is NOTCENSORED and there was an opportunity that too many people didn't take to keep this off the main page. You only have yourself to blame!

(okay, it probably shouldn't use that exact wording, but you get my point. :p) — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 00:19, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

I thought that March 1 was a (inter)national "anti-censorship" day? or maybe not. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 18:26, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Question

How do I create an a biographical article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Streetfacts2014 (talk • contribs) 07:44, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Advice at WP:Your first article and WP:Biography. --David Biddulph (talk) 08:26, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

File:Four white goose.JPG

File:Four white goose.JPG

PLURAL OF GOOSE IS GEESE !!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.255.207.151 (talk) 08:13, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

It's a filename, so any string of characters would do. It is however recommended that a filename gives some indication of what the file shows – which this one does. Maproom (talk) 08:30, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

And anyway, commons:File:Four white goose.JPG is at Wikimedia Commons and not used here at the English Wikipedia. English Wikipedia editors cannot rename files at Commons but see commons:Commons:File renaming if you want to request a renaming. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:54, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

# Signatures petition

We are not allowed to refer to petitioning sites. Media only refers to them shortly. In this case a reputable article says the petition has 98,000 signatures. But by now it has grown to 135,000+. Is it really impossible to state "over 135,000" when no reputable media is reporting on it anymore? I understand that petitioning sites are no good primary sources, but I don not think it this increases the quality of Wikipedia when it comes to the amount of signatures. Any ideas? Timelezz (talk) 10:44, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Two answers occur to me. First, it is in the interest of any petition to inflate the number of signatures it has, so prima facie I would not regard a petition site as reliable for that particular information. Secondly, the quality of Wikipedia is determined by the accuracy and reliability of its sources and its representing the information on these sources, not by the value somebody may put on the subject reported. If the "98,000" is reported in a reliable source and the "over 135,000" is not, then replacing "98,000" by "over 135,000" would lower the quality of Wikipedia. The worthiness of the cause doesn't enter into it. --ColinFine (talk) 12:37, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Don't see how that is a valid argument, as the 'reliable' source also just used the petition as its primary source and is also subject to the same risk of inflation. Also, the fear for 'inflation' can easily be circumvented by appropriate wording. Timelezz (talk) 14:58, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

"as of DATE it had X signatures (third party source)"

if no third parties deem future additional signatures relevant to the subject why would we?-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 12:43, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Because an encyclopedia should not be limited to the short span of attention of the media Timelezz (talk) 14:58, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Clearly not our job to "follow through" where neither media nor academia do not see worthwhile pursuit. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 16:11, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Timelezz, Wikipedia is driven by information obtained from Reliable sources, as per the verifibility policy. We do not go beyond what sources say. It is true that the media source may have obtained the count directly from the petition site, but they will at least have done a "gut-check" and considerd the newsworthyness of the figure, and may have done some cross-checking. If a particular petition site has a reputation for reporting its signature counts accurately and not inflating them, and the reliable source notice board confirms this, it might be possible to say "according to Petition site X, the petition had nnnn signatures as of (Date)" but I would want a clear consensus for any particualr siute that this was acceptable. In any case, unless the petition has itself drawn 3rd-party (which mostly means medai) attention, it is not highly significant, and continually updating the sig count lends it undue weight and violates WP:NOTNEWS. DES ^(talk) 15:21, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Thank you! That is spot on, and exactly what I'm hitting at. For sure we should not allow any petitioning sites, and for sure be careful with the wording. Though accuracy is also good virtue to pursue. I'll try to gather some support for the idea to allow individual petitioning sites that are deemed reliable (since reliable media quotes them or due to their strict regulations). Timelezz (talk) 16:49, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

my site Jim McArthur footballer Hibernian

Jim McArthur (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

My site is being vandalised can it be protected

jim mcarthur — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.129.0.184 (talk) 10:56, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

See WP:Vandalism. I'm worried about you saying "My site". Wikipedia is a collective process, the article is not yours. Timelezz (talk) 11:06, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Timelezz, though Wikipedia:Conflict of interest guidelines discourage editing of Wikipedia articles by the article subject, there are obvious exceptions for vandalism - and it isn't reasonable to expect every article subject to be familiar with Wikipedia policy. The important issue here is that some clearly offensive vandalism has occurred. I think that the best solution here is to request pending changes protection. AndyTheGrump (talk) 11:22, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Callanecc has locked it down for a week, which should solve the problem. Yunshui 雲‍水 14:10, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Copy and pasting into Wikipedia

Copy and pasting into Wikipedia

My late father left an extensive bibliography of his work. He was a research scientist for the government and has over 200 published papers and chapters in seven books. I want to create a page for him but there is no way that I can type in all of this information. He passed away several years ago and I have dyslexia real bad. This bibliography is written in his own hand and I consider myself to be the owner of it. It consists of a partial list of approximately 60 papers, his education and work background. Is there anyway that I can cut and paste this on his page?

Thank you

February .19 2014 Greenho (talk) 15:53, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

You have already asked this question, and had it answered. [1] Please do not ask the same question in multiple places. AndyTheGrump (talk) 15:58, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Strictly speaking, Greenho, a mere list of facts such a bibliography, in a natural order such as alphabetical or chronological, is not protected by copyright, so the most usual concerns over cut & paste do not apply. However, a comprehensive bibliography is not usually appropriate as part of a Wikipedia biography article. In this case a listing of his 3-5 most important papers, and any actual books he published, would probably do. Is this about Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Roy B Mefferd Jr? Do not forget that published independent (3rd-party) reliable sources that establish notability are needed, and his own publications will not contribute to that at all, only publications by others that discuss him or his work in some detail. These are not yet in the draft. DES ^(talk) 16:06, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Napoleon Bonaparte

Bitte um Hilfe - wo befindet sich dieses gelungene Napoleondenkmal? Wer hat es geschaffen? Danke.

Please help - where is this successful Napoleon monument? Who created it? Thank you.

--Frze ^{> talk} 17:14, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Maybe the folks at the WP:Reference desk can help?--ukexpat (talk) 18:02, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

See here Gdansk from de.wk de:Wikipedia:Auskunft#Napoleon Bonaparte.--Doalex (talk) 18:32, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Wikipedia Help

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

---

Editing If you need help editing, you can use the Sandbox topic that everyone uses to help you practice on editing a page. If your loged in, then you can also do it personaly by yourself.

Making your own Wiki story You can make your own Story on Wikipedia by login in or if you dont have a account, you can register. Be bold as you can to create a interesting story for other people to read!

Registering If you dont have a(n) account,you can register. In the right hand side, you will see create account,then click on it. Type in your username, password, and email to create an account. Also, at the buttom, you will see a word that will be blurry. Type in what you think it says, and then hit create an account. And there, you have your account! NOTE: The email is optional, so no email needed.

Thank you for reading this. hoped it help! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Twilight2468 (talk • contribs) 18:47, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Well intentioned, but Wikipedia does not have "stories", we have articles. I have left a welcome message on your user page.--ukexpat (talk) 18:54, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Table formatting help

HMS Ulster (R83) (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

Folks, would someone please take a look at the table formatting in the commanding officer section? A new editor has added the information but the table formatting has defeated him, and me. Thanks in advance.--ukexpat (talk) 18:51, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

There should be line separators: {{|-}} Ruslik_Zero 19:04, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

 Done See this edit]. Ruslik is correct that line separators were needed, but the previous editor also put three pipes (|||) instead of two before data for column three, and did not put in column separator pipes when a cell in column two was blank. DES ^(talk) 19:07, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

i dont understand the addiction / fetish for placing everything in tables. the best solution to bad table formatting is generally to follow the manual of style WP:MOSTABLE and nuke the table for a clean and easy to edit bulleted list format-- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 01:28, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

User email update

Can any one please let me know how I can update my email address

Thank you for your help

Moataz — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mwarshanna (talk • contribs) 19:26, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

@Mwarshanna: You can change your Email addresson the Special:Preferences page. Just scroll down a little bit to the "Email options". This should allow you to change or set your email address. Excirial ^{(Contact me,Contribs)} 19:28, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

phone

what kind of phone can I buy that I don't have to go under contract so I can use your square product Helen Hedmond — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.61.41.223 (talk) 21:08, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 6 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. DES ^(talk) 21:41, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Username change?

I have just created my account but my username is not spelt as it was intended to. I want to change it but don't know how to do that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zalatya Zorka (talk • contribs) 21:10, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

if you just created an account, Zalatya Zorka, or have no or few edits (and currently you have only 2) the easiest and simplest thing is to jsut abandon this account and start over with a new account that can be spelled however you wish (within the normal restrictions and subject to any existing accounts). That will be easy adn should require no further help. DES ^(talk) 21:44, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Preferences among choices for referencing

Wikisource contains the full standard reference work "The Catholic Encyclopedia" (of 1913) - since it is in the public domain. But the same work can be found online through the very stable Catholic website NewAdvent. In creating or updating article references, is there any preference on WP between using one or the other of these as the target of the reference? In particular, is there any trend away from an older way of doing things? Thanks. Evensteven (talk) 22:36, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Hello? Too soon to ask if someone is looking into this? Evensteven (talk) 18:24, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Just for documentation, answered here. It's not archived yet so I'll have to update.— Vchimpanzee · talk · contributions · 19:23, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

How do I change the graphics/pictures on our site?

How does one remove graphics that are no longer part of the branding from one's page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Buddyrice (talk • contribs) 22:43, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

since it appears that you have a connection to the subject you should go to the article's talk page and post a message there for someone else to act on. If you wish to donate your logo by releasing it under a free use license or if it is a simply geometric and text that is not covered by copyright, you can upload it at the Wikimedia commons [[2]].

If you wish to retain the copyright, you will need to make sure to follow the WP:FAIRuse policies. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 00:13, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

Hello, Buddyrice. Are you talking about a Wikipedia article about you(r company, organisation, club ...)? If so, the logo will probably be in an infobox at the start of the article, so you need to edit the whole article (using the Edit tab at the top of the page), and inside an 'infobox' template you will find a line something like

logo = X company logo.jpg

(I can't tell exactly how it will be, because you haven't told us which article, so I don't know which infobox it uses).

If you simply remove the filename

logo =

and save your work, then the logo will disappear from the page. Please make sure you give a meaningful edit summary, so anybody watching will know why you have done this.

When you say "one's page", that sounds as if you might be associated with the subject of the article: if so, please read conflict of interest before you edit the article.

If by "our site" you didn't mean a Wikipedia article, then this is not the right place to ask. You might get some help at the reference desk, but you will need to give a lot more information, specifically what system or technology your site uses. --ColinFine (talk) 00:11, 20 February 2014 (UTC)

DeLand, Florida

Children's House Montessori School should be listed under the headings preschool, elementary and middle school. It is a private school in existence for 45 years. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.89.0.152 (talk) 22:46, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Anyone can edit Wikipedia. You can add it yourself. --Thnidu (talk) 10:01, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Farmville

@Farmville hola soy un jugador de farmville,he tenido un problema con farmer's square, me ha desaparecido el (ingredient storage)y no puedo recuperarlo,ni siquiera esta para comparlo,a la espera de una solucion ,atentamente gracias — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.153.167.122 (talk) 23:07, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

Bienvenido/a a Wikipedia, la enciclopedia que todos pueden editar. No es afiliado con Farmville. Está en el proyecto de idioma inglés. Wikipedia tiene un proyecto de idioma español, y usted puede buscar ayuda en su página de consultos. Anon126 (talk - contribs) 23:21, 19 February 2014 (UTC)