Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 September 18

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September 18

remaining pages that link to NWA dab

hi. i redirected 13 links from articles that were pointing to NWA to where they were trying to go. could anybody take a look at the current "pages that link to NWA" (in the article namespace only) and verify if the 5 that remain should be left as they are such that the NWA entry in the list might be moved to the "done" section, and/or if any of the remaining 5 do need to be changed what the protocol is. thanks. Hobbit walking party (talk) 00:49, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I would say you've done a thorough job and can mark it done. -Karenjc 07:06, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, someone else moved it while I was waiting to see if it was ready or not. Thanks. Hobbit walking party (talk) 02:11, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

2012–13 Egyptian protests

The Egyptian army did not hurt morsi supporters. Most, not all, of morsi supporters are sick minded terrorists who attacked the army and the local residents as well as christians and everyone who supports the army with guns and knifes. I am an egyptian girl and i witnessed this scene LIVE. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 197.38.190.220 (talk) 06:34, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

The place to discuss this is on the article's talk page. Unpublished eyewitness accounts are defined as original research, which is unacceptable here - Wikipedia requires content to be supported by reliable sources. -Karenjc 06:55, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Al-ameen medical college

Al-Ameen Medical College (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

It is not a Tulu minority college instead it is Islamic minority college.

Thanks and Regards Dr Prabhu — Preceding unsigned comment added by 5.65.30.190 (talk) 08:24, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Post your comments to the article talk page, or edit the article and cite a reliable source. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:08, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Where is the best place to post proposals for changing the visual appearance of articles?

Dear editors: The following has been posted at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Stefan Rusconi (Artist). It is not an "article for creation", but instead a discussion about the visual style of articles. It doesn't belong in Afc, and I would like to suggest to the writer a better place to post it where he/she may get feedback. What's the best place? —Anne Delong (talk) 12:15, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

My guess is that it might be a topic for discussion at WT:MOS, but at present it isn't clear what the author is actually suggesting. Perhaps it might be clearer if the author were to show us (perhaps on a user subpage) what it is that they are proposing, maybe by showing a draft in accordance with the current MOS and a modified version in line with their prposals. - David Biddulph (talk) 12:31, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Yes, the draft is at Wikipedia:Articles for creation/Stefan Rusconi (Artist) —Anne Delong (talk) 12:38, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I've seen that draft, but I don't understand what the author means when he/she talks about "visualizing the Wiki acticles topically". - David Biddulph (talk) 13:31, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

He is bolding the key words in the text. I believe that this is an attempt to help a reader, whose eyes are drawn to the bold text, quickly get the gist of an article before deciding whether or which sections to read, or to visually re-find a concept after readng. —Anne Delong (talk) 15:54, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

WT:MOS is as good a place as any to discuss this. Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Text formatting#Boldface is the relevant MOS guidance, so an alternative would be Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Text formatting. I suppose a third alternative for discussing such a proposal would be at WP:VPPR. But really - the table of contents, plus avoiding long sections (and long subsections) seems quite enough, to me, to get the reader to the right place. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 20:48, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

My new page "Bodybuilders who have used Anabolic Steroids" got deleted, and I would like to know why

I recently created this page: Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Bodybuilders who have used Anabolic Steroids

It got deleted with the reason: (G10: Attack page or negative unsourced BLP), and I have a hard time understanding why.

The page features a list of people who have all admitted to using anabolic steroids, and this is all backed up by quotes by each individual.

It is not unsourced: Most references are in video segments, where you can hear and see the person willingly admitting to it. Other references are in magazine interviews, again where the athlete in their own words admits to it.

It is not a personal attack on someone: It is not any different from for example the article "Arnold Schwarzenegger" where the same information is provided in the section "Steroid use". None of the people mentioned seem to be ashamed of their use. In the bodybuilding community, using steroids is not something controversial or even shameful; it is common practice.

As a side note I find contributing content to Wikipedia confusing, slow, unnecessary complex and frustrating. I love using Wikipedia to look up information, and I have special knowledge in some areas, so I believe I could be a contributor, but the overall process is too frustrating for me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by UrsusMajor67 (talk • contribs) 12:27, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

A WP:Citation needs to be provided after the information for it to be verifiable. This is important, especially in a situation where real people are involved. See WP:BLP. It's not enough to say that the information is out there, it must be provided. Create an article in your userspace where you have more time to work on it, but keep in mind that unverified/uncited claims about living people is a BLP violation since Wikipedia becomes liable for those claims. If you need any more information then reply here or message me personally and i'll help where i can. Thanks ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 12:34, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Ok, thanks Jenova20. So for each of the persons included in the list I have to type a quote from them admitting to anabolic steroid use. Is this correct? This would be easy if my article is still in the system somewhere, but is seems permanently lost. I have no patience to re-learn all the obscure formatting rules that Wikipedia uses to recreate my article again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by UrsusMajor67 (talk • contribs) 19:30, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Request - Perhaps a friendly admin here can get a copy of the work back for your userspace so you can add in the citations? If you need ay help citing or learning then i can help with that. Thanks ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 20:47, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

@UrsusMajor67: No, you don't have to quote people admitting that they used anabolic steroids; you need to add a footnote that cites a reliable source for each person. It the New York Times reports that person X was found, by testing, to have used steroids, then that's sufficient.

Second, it sounds like you are writing a list-style article; if so, the title of such articles often starts "List of ...". See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Lists for more information.

And finally, see Wikipedia:Userfication#Userfication of deleted content regarding how to get a copy of what was deleted. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 18:28, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Is there a template for adding a city or town?

Is there a template for adding a city or town? If not, what is the easiest way to do this? Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ND Sonn (talk • contribs) 14:48, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

What do you mean by the term "state town"? --Orange Mike | Talk 18:35, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I changed it,I wanted to add a town in North Dakota. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ND Sonn (talk • contribs) 20:01, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Do you want to create a new article about a town, or add a town to an existing page? If the latter then which page? PrimeHunter (talk) 20:49, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

New article for a town in North Dakota. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ND Sonn (talk • contribs) 21:47, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

First, identify reliable sources about the town. Then go to WP:Your first article and use the Article Creation Wizard. Robert McClenon (talk) 00:07, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. In looking through the Article Creation Wizard, I see no template for adding a city or town so I assume the answer to my question is no. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ND Sonn (talk • contribs) 15:31, 20 September 2013 (UTC)

How to change an article url when it has been mispelt and submitted with the error

Hello

I am having a spot of trouble with my first article on wikipedia and I have misspelt the title when creating the article. As a result, the article Pagename is also misspelt.

Any help on this will be most appreciated.

Kind Regards

AY — Preceding unsigned comment added by Antonioyap (talk • contribs) 15:53, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I presume that you are talking about Frank masser, which has just been copied from Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Frank Massar. Please in the future use the "Move" function to move pages, rather than creating a new copy, which leaves a problem to be fixed up. The move function is to be found by clicking on the small black triangle at the top of the article, near the search box. However, it appears that sections of the article have been copied from the web site 'http://massartaekwondo.co.uk/12.html', and these will be quickly deleted unless rewritten to avoid copyright issues. The article also needs work on reference format and should have in-line citations (see WP:Referencing for beginners). Are you sure that you don't want to keep working on the old version at Wikipedia talk:Articles for creation/Frank Massar before adding it to the encyclopedia? —Anne Delong (talk) 16:26, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Resolved

Moved to Frank Massar. Nice article but please work on the issues Anne has brought up ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 16:28, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Nope, it was moved to Frank massar, I just moved that to Frank Massar.--ukexpat (talk) 17:01, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Facepalm...Well, i was close! Thanks for double checking Ukexpat ツ Jenova20 ^(email) 20:22, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

User names which are promotional

Dear editors: I would like some guidance as to when to place a user warning when a username is the name of a company or organization, and when instead to report it at Wikipedia:Usernames for administrator attention. For example, there is a user, "Merlinbikegear", making an article about the Merlin brand of motorcycle clothing in the Afc HERE. Is this what is meant by "obvious"? Which route should I use? —Anne Delong (talk) 16:05, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

@Anne Delong: First, I'd like to say it's always a pleasure to see you, you're an excellent editor who asks questions when need be :) To answer your question, names that are "group names", or could represent either more than one person, or an organization as a whole (for example, dell-pr, spiffydayspa, etc.) should be reported to WP:UAA or to an administrator directly for immediate blocking per {{Uw-softerblock}}. If they've already made edits that are promotional, it would be (likely) a {{Uw-spamblock}}. However, group names always get immediate block.

Now, individual names (not names with CEO, those would be group/non-individ names) that are promotional (as the name of the CEO for example) would be blocked per spam/promotion, but not for their username. So, what I think your answer is is company/org names always get blocked asap. ~Charmlet ^-talk- 16:22, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Thanks, Charmlet. I will report it. What is CEO? —Anne Delong (talk) 16:53, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

(Chief Exective Officer). I will, however, add that it depends on the admin who reviews the report at WP:UAA. I have reported several CORPNAMEs which have only edited AFCs (usually drafts about their companies), and they have not been instablocked on the basis that such edits were not edits in mainspace.--ukexpat (talk) 16:58, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

WP:GROUPNAMEs should be blocked instantly as they are non-individual. ~Charmlet ^-talk- 17:57, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

You say that, but it doesn't happen in practice.--ukexpat (talk) 18:47, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

@Ukexpat: In which case I refer the administrator to WP:GROUPNAME, which, in practice, is supposed to be "inappropriate username AND spam? block with option for unblock-usernamechange. inappropriate username? warn. if continues editing after warning and doesn't ask for help/change username, block until they change it." Most times, it's just better to block, as it avoids them being confused as to why they get the warning, imo the block message is much clearer and more urgent than the warnings. ~Charmlet ^-talk- 21:36, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

@Ukexpat: Just to reinforce a point made earlier: it's irrelevant to which namespaces a username that is a group name posts. Wikipedia absolutely has to insist that user accounts be individual accounts, for legal/liability purposes. -- John Broughton (♫♫) 18:19, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

I understand that, you are preaching to the converted. My only point was that in my experience, that is not the practice wrt CORPNAMES of some of the admins who patrol WP:UAA .--ukexpat (talk) 18:46, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

A little help please

MEL BIRNKRANT (talk · contribs) has been adding links to his own web site for quite some time. I'm on a tablet and it would take me forever to fix all the articles . Could some experienced editor please lend a hand? Thanks, Dismas|^(talk) 18:02, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I've started rollbacking them…  drewmunn  talk  18:09, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I've rollbacked the ones I could find that had not already been resolved, and have left a message on his talk page requesting he discusses such links on their respective talk pages before adding them to articles.  drewmunn  talk  18:16, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Mel Birnkrant is probably one of the top collectors in the world in his field. Some of the links may merit inclusion, subject to local consensus of course. For what its worth, I don't think adding these links violates the WP:SELFCITE part of the conflict of interest guideline or any other part of WP:COI. I don't think this really fits Wikipedia's notion of conflict of interest. He's using his real name, which helps, and COI is a guideline rather policy. The links are being added as external links and although their presence is subject to local consensus, as is everything else, it doesn't strike me as unreasonable for someone to argue that they could meet one of the following criteria.

• WP:ELYES #3. "Sites that contain neutral and accurate material that is relevant to an encyclopedic understanding of the subject and cannot be integrated into the Wikipedia article due to copyright issues, amount of detail (such as professional athlete statistics, movie or television credits, interview transcripts, or online textbooks), or other reasons."
• WP:ELMAYBE #4. "Sites that fail to meet criteria for reliable sources yet still contain information about the subject of the article from knowledgeable sources."

On the other hand, perhaps WP:ELNO #11 applies, "Blogs, personal web pages and most fansites, except those written by a recognized authority. (This exception for blogs, etc., controlled by recognized authorities is meant to be very limited; as a minimum standard, recognized authorities always meet Wikipedia's notability criteria for people.)" depending I suppose of whether he meets the notability criteria. I'm not sure of the extent of coverage in reliable sources.

Anyway, he seems to be getting plenty of advice on his talk page. Sean.hoyland - talk 18:44, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Notable enough for a Wikipedia page?

In addition to the Life Magazine article about him and his collection, I get 15 hits on the archive of Google News, including the New York Times and the Village Voice. I personally think he is considered to be a recognized authority, but having a Wikipedia page about him would probably support that.Naraht (talk) 20:35, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Dear Naraht,

I just posted this on the talk page but perhaps it best belongs here .

OH Wow , After Yesterday, which proved to be the worst days work I ever did, I never intended to return here. When the man who would pass final judgment on my Little Nemo Page tells me that even if my friend John Canemaker, who happens to be the person who wrote the book he states he derives all his information from to author his own Wikipedia articles, lists my site, personally, and I get my own page on Wikipedia as well, my site wouldn’t be ”in line with Wikipedia's goals” according to him, what’s the point? I can’t win! But That’s not what I am writing about!

Another matter has arisen that is much more important. It appears that my attempts to contribute to various comic character related site that my new website http://melbirnkrant.com/collection/index.html and collection deals with, yesterday, has resulted in the erasure of the Colorforms Aliens pages I contributed, 4 years ago,

My God! They are what the Colorforms Aliens are all about! I am the man who created them! Your page was written by an unknown fan. The Outer Space Men, as they are called, in 1968, and those pages that have been linked, here, for the past four years are literally the Bible of "The Outer Space Men" Collectors. There is a huge fan base for these figures which were historically, The First Action Figures.

They play an Important role in the history of toys and action figures , all of which has resulted in the enormous popularity of action figures and enormous events like the New York Comic Con, where, by the way, I will be signing autographs, on November 12

Someone, obviously, just blindly deleted these key pages, without looking at their content. What does one have to do to get them reinstated? There are certainly 100 people who would gladly reinstate them if the fact that I did it myself is the problem.

As for being an expert , I am the man who created the Colorforms Aliens in the first place. I was Colorforms Creative Director for 20 years, responsible for the creation of all their product, including the Outer Space Men and Maurice Sendak's Wild Things Dolls. I see that my comprehensive history of the Colorforms Company has been removed as well. http://melbirnkrant.com/colorforms/

My Outer Space Men site shows all the original art, and photos, and packaged product, that I created 45 yeras ago. It is considered one of the finest sites on the internet. If someone would just look at this wepsite you would see why it needs to be there.

http://melbirnkrant.com/outerspacemen/

Again if it is, solely, the fact I innocently posted them myself, 4 years ago, there are any number of people who would willingly resubmit them in their name . Whoever removed these obviously did not look at them before they did. Wikipedia is a poorer place without them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MEL BIRNKRANT (talk • contribs) 22:12, 19 September 2013 (UTC) --MEL BIRNKRANT (talk) 22:13, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

By the way, I have been, essentially, retired for the past 10 years. I have nothing financial to gain by creating Websites. Like you guys, I do it for the sake of History, and the gratification of sharing my insights, experience, rare photographs, and information about the history of the American Toy industry, where I toiled for 45 years

During that time I created hundreds of toys, beginning with the first Action Figures, “The Outer Space Men”, and 50 “Colorforms” toys a year, for 20 years, to numerous dolls from “Baby Face” to the “Play Along Club”

But my main interest was the World of Toy Collecting, where I amassed thousands of them. Many consider my Collection of rare Comic Character Memorabilia to be the foremost in America.

The websites I created were solely for the enjoyment of others, and were an attempt to leave a lasting record behind.

Until yesterday, I didn’t realize that to contribute to Wikipedia one cannot submit their own material. No one objected to my submissions in the past. Had I known that was the case, there were many friends and fans with prestigious credentials and reputations who would have gladly submitted these links for me --MEL BIRNKRANT (talk) 23:11, 19 September 2013 (UTC).

Brad Meltzer article vandalized

Not sure how to report this but I believe the Brad Meltzer article has been vandalized — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.176.56.120 (talk) 19:31, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

 Fixed in this edit.--ukexpat (talk) 19:55, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

remove personal info from profile

I was reading a friend's profile on Wikipedia. I was surprised to see the names of his children. The three children are under the age of 12. Is it possible to get this information removed? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.224.175.105 (talk) 20:53, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

We need to know who you're talking about first. ~Charmlet ^-talk- 21:32, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Alan Taylor, Film Director — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.224.175.105 (talk) 21:51, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

I've removed it. Thanks. ~Charmlet ^-talk- 21:59, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Note the post two sections below. The rule is not to list young children unless the children have themselves been notable in the press. A request to delete children was done quickly. A request for assistance in adding children (by their mother) was denied. The policy on biographies of living persons is intended to protect living persons, and especially people who are not notable in themselves, such as children of notable people. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:48, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Submission was declined How do we correct?

Below see link for page. We have been working to clear up grammatical errors but if I understand correctly we need to add sources? Just trying to get a clear idea of what needs to happen to get page cleared.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Cakeupboy1/Honorable_C_note

Thank you Erica — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.22.226.116 (talk) 21:44, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

The article needs sources and information as to notability, which is why its promotion into article space was declined. It would be helpful to clear up the grammatical errors before submitting, but it is more important to provide the sources and notability information. (An article with grammatical errors can always be copy-edited in article space, although it is better to copy-edit it before submitting. Some reviewers will decline a submission if the draft needs extensive copy-editing.) Robert McClenon (talk) 23:54, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Very New to Wiki and unable to make changes due to another user changing everything back

I've been trying to update my husband (Chris Difford's) page and appear to be annoying a fan/enemy of his who refuses to let me edit his marital status and enter his children's names. I have also been trying to remove a hugely unflattering photograph of him to the right of the page. Every time I make the changes - the user(Egghead06 - who is uncontacable) changes it back. Therefore I can't make contact with other than the polite notes I've made after each change telling them that I am his wife and all the changes can be verified by looking at Chris' website. Egghead06 just keeps saying that I'm not authorised to do so.

Please help me. This is the first port of call for any one searching Chris and this user is stopping me make the changes that Chris himself wants. I don't know how to go about proving the facts I'm changing or how to upload a photo that is preferable

Best

Louise — Preceding unsigned comment added by Loulou660 (talk • contribs) 21:45, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

@Loulou660: First of all, per WP:BLP we generally do not include the names of children unless they are public in some way (i.e. talked about themselves in the press). Also, removing photographs just because you don't like them is not acceptable. Until a better, free image is available, that one should likely stay, as it's the only image we have of his facial features and front side of his body in such detail. User talk:Egghead06 is where you can contact the user, for your information. Lastly, you should not be making changes per your conflict of interest, especially not without reliable, independent sources. ~Charmlet ^-talk- 22:03, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Louise, you could address the image problem by donating a better, clearer, more recent one of Mr. Difford. You need to be able and willing to license it to be freely reused by other people, so the easiest way is to upload one you took yourself and to which you own the copyright. Go to Commons:Upload and follow the instructions. Then insert the picture into the article (see Wikipedia:Image tutorial). If anyone challenges or reverts your change, or if you are concerned that your change might be controversial, discuss it at Talk:Chris Difford. That's also the place to propose the factual changes you wish to make to the text. If you can show that they are supported by your husband's official website, that should be sufficient to satisfy Wikipedia's policy on verifiability; however, if you can provide references to independent reliable published sources to confirm them then that would be even better. If you need any further help, you are welcome to contact me on my talk page. - Karenjc 19:15, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

i have some problems in using my wikimedia..please help

I want to briefly show you my problem

We as the Copts in Egypt do not have professional encyclopedia

And we are trying to document every large and small about the history of the Copts

Unfortunately, we do not know for how to use the wiki Professionally

we need you install and do some things:

A- I want Show Side sections and appear on the home page of the wiki.

B-Topics appear on the home page of the site Automaticly (Wikimedia special molds or something like that)

C-Protection against Spam

D-The list of languages for website translation into many languages

E- Registration page Like Wikipedia

F- template news for wikimedia

i sent you some example of things that we want

link 1

link 2

link 3

link 4

i wait your answer ,, accept my greetings — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samoel Nashat (talk • contribs) 22:40, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

@Samoel Nashat: Does this request for help pertain to the Egyptian Arabic Wikipedia, as discussed here: meta:Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Egyptian Arabic? -- John Broughton (♫♫) 04:20, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

No, I don't think this relates to a Wikipedia at all. I think Samoel wants to create a separate Wiki using the Wikimedia software. In which case mw:Sysadmin hub is probably the best place to ask. --ColinFine (talk) 17:07, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

Fuad 2 birth date

The birth date of king faud 1952 is wrong. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.222.91.81 (talk) 23:24, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

Do you mean King Fahd of Saudi Arabia? The article shows his date of birth as 1921. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:42, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

In general, if an article is wrong, you may edit the article and cite a reliable source, or may post to the article talk page. However, in this case, I am not sure what to advise. Robert McClenon (talk) 23:42, 18 September 2013 (UTC)

This would appear to be about Fuad II of Egypt. I have confirmed that 1952 is correct according to reliable sources. See Life Magazine article from August 1952, referring to him as the "7-month-old King Fuad II..." and continuing (under the next page's picture caption) "...born to him and Princes Narriman ... last January".--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 00:05, 19 September 2013 (UTC)