Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2013 May 9

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May 9

Counting items in numbered list

Is there any function or reference template for counting the number of items in an ordered list? (E.g., returning the number "13" from a numbered list of 13 items.) czar · · 00:30, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

1. one
2. two
3. three?--Canoe1967 (talk) 00:33, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Right, I'm looking for a way to return the value of the number of items (for use in a template), such as "3" for your list. czar · · 00:34, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Not to my knowledge. There is a way of making a separate column that uses pound signs (#) to number the list, but that is as far as it goes. Someone else, though, might know more. Apteva (talk) 00:35, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Please see my response at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Templates#Counting items in numbered list. --Redrose64 (talk) 07:23, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

superman enemies

Template:Batman divides to major villains and more minor villains by a layout I am not very familiar with but is neat. This is how it goes:
{{#switch:{{{1|}}} |List of Batman Family enemies |Anarky |Bane (comics) |Black Mask (comics) |Blockbuster (DC Comics) |Calendar Man |Catman (comics) |Catwoman |Clayface |Cluemaster |Deadshot |Firefly (DC Comics) |Harley Quinn |Hugo Strange |Hush (comics) |Jason Todd |Joe Chill |Joker (comics) |KGBeast |Killer Croc |Killer Moth |Mad Hatter (comics) |Man-Bat |Maxie Zeus |Mr. Freeze |Victor Zsasz |Penguin (comics) |Poison Ivy (comics) |Ra's al Ghul |Red Hood |Riddler |Scarecrow (DC Comics) |Tweedledum and Tweedledee (comics) |Two-Face |Ventriloquist (comics) = * [[Anarky]] * [[Bane (comics)|Bane]] * [[Black Mask (comics)|Black Mask]] * [[Blockbuster (DC Comics)|Blockbuster]] * [[Calendar Man]] * [[Catman (comics)|Catman]] * [[Catwoman]] * [[Clayface]] * [[Cluemaster]] * [[Deadshot]] * [[Firefly (DC Comics)|Firefly]] * [[Harley Quinn]] * [[Hugo Strange]] * [[Hush (comics)|Hush]] * [[Joe Chill]] * [[Joker (comics)|Joker]] * [[KGBeast]] * [[Killer Croc]] * [[Killer Moth]] * [[Mad Hatter (comics)|Mad Hatter]] * [[Man-Bat]] * [[Maxie Zeus]] * [[Mr. Freeze]] * [[Victor Zsasz|Mr. Zsasz]] * [[Penguin (comics)|Penguin]] * [[Poison Ivy (comics)|Poison Ivy]] * [[Ra's al Ghul]] * {{#switch:{{{1|}}} |Joker (comics) |Red Hood |Jason Todd = [[Red Hood]] ([[Joker (comics)|Joker]] * [[Jason Todd]]) |[[Red Hood]] }} * [[Riddler]] * [[Scarecrow (DC Comics)|Scarecrow]] * [[Tweedledum and Tweedledee (comics)|Tweedledum and Tweedledee]] * [[Two-Face]] * [[Ventriloquist (comics)|Ventriloquist]] |* [[Bane (comics)|Bane]] * [[Catwoman]] * [[Clayface]] * [[Harley Quinn]] * [[Joe Chill]] * [[Joker (comics)|Joker]] * [[Killer Croc]] * [[Mad Hatter (comics)|Mad Hatter]] * [[Man-Bat]] * [[Mr. Freeze]] * [[Penguin (comics)|Penguin]] * [[Poison Ivy (comics)|Poison Ivy]] * [[Ra's al Ghul]] * [[Riddler]] * [[Scarecrow (DC Comics)|Scarecrow]] * [[Two-Face]] }}
It limits villains on the navbox but adds on more of the villains in particular articles. Well I decide to do the same thing to Template:Superman but instead get a lot of unsuccessful results. This is what I did:
{{#switch:{{{1|}}} |List of Superman enemies |Atomic Skull |Bizarro |Bloodsport (comics) |Brainiac (comics) |Bruno Mannheim]] |Conduit (comics) |Hank Henshaw |Darkseid |Doomsday (comics) |Faora |General Zod |Gog (comics) |Imperiex |Intergang |Jax-Ur |Kryptonite Man |Lex Luthor |Livewire (DC Comics) |Mala (Kryptonian) |Mercy Graves |Metallo |Mongul |Morgan Edge |Mister Mxyzptlk |Neutron (DC Comics) |Parasite (comics) |Prankster (comics) |Silver Banshee |Solaris (comics) |Superboy-Prime |Superman Revenge Squad |Terra-Man |Titano |Toyman |Ultra-Humanite |Ultraman (comics) = * [[Atomic Skull]] * [[Bizarro]] * [[Bloodsport (comics)|Bloodsport]] * [[Brainiac (comics)|Brainiac]] * [[Bruno Mannheim]] * [[Conduit (comics)|Conduit]] * [[Hank Henshaw|Cyborg Superman]] * [[Darkseid]] * [[Doomsday (comics)|Doomsday]] * [[Faora]] * [[General Zod]] * [[Gog (comics)|Gog]] * [[Imperiex]] * [[Intergang]] * [[Jax-Ur]] * [[Kryptonite Man]] * [[Lex Luthor]] * [[Livewire (DC Comics)|Livewire]] * [[Mala (Kryptonian)|Mala]] * [[Mercy Graves]] * [[Metallo]] * [[Mongul]] * [[Morgan Edge]] * [[Mister Mxyzptlk|Mr. Mxyzptlk]] * [[Neutron (DC Comics)|Neutron]] * [[Parasite (comics)|Parasite]] * [[Prankster (comics)|Prankster]] * [[Silver Banshee]] * [[Solaris (comics)|Solaris]] * [[Superboy-Prime]] * [[Superman Revenge Squad]] * [[Terra-Man]] * [[Titano]] * [[Toyman]] * [[Ultra-Humanite]] * [[Ultraman (comics)|Ultraman]] |* [[Bizarro]] * [[Brainiac (comics)|Brainiac]] * [[Hank Henshaw|Cyborg Superman]] * [[Darkseid]] * [[Doomsday (comics)|Doomsday]] * [[General Zod]] * [[Lex Luthor]] * [[Metallo]] * [[Mongul]] * [[Mister Mxyzptlk|Mr. Mxyzptlk]] * [[Parasite (comics)|Parasite]] * [[Toyman]] }}
What am I missing? Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 02:27, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

The Batman template uses a second file called Template:Batman/adversaries, which is where the switch is located. I do not know if that makes a difference, or if it can be done all in one template. Apteva (talk) 04:55, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Yeah I know about that. I don't know if that makes a difference. The second file was there to keep inclusions as it was protected from editing. I helped make it semi-protected. Later on User:J Greb added on this switch device to please more fans with inclusions they might have wanted (which I am not sure he is still active). So I am totally getting confused with this thing. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 14:02, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks I figured it out while looking at the Batman template. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 15:00, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Vandalism of the Banjo article

Dear editors:

It seems that the Banjo article is continuing to be vandalized every day or two. Can anything be done? Several people are watching it and reverting the damage, but rude language and occasionally racist remarks are being added. —Anne Delong (talk) 02:53, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

It looks like most of it is coming from an IP user, so semi-protection would help. You can request it at WP:RFPP. You can also report vandalism at WP:AIV to get the user blocked. RudolfRed (talk) 03:08, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

New Question

Hi, I just made a background page on "Islamic television networks" here: Islamic television networks

I want to link that new page to this old page, which has a list of Islamic television networks: Category:Islamic television networks

I tried to link it like the Wikipedia Help page suggested, using this code at the bottom of the page: Category:Islamic Television Networks I also tried taking the first colon out but it didn't work. Can someone help me please? Thanks in advance! Yallabye (talk) 03:04, 9 May 2013 (UTC)Yallabye

Categories are case sensitive. Category:Islamic Television Networks doesn't exist but Category:Islamic television networks does. It's fixed. Cheers.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 03:20, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Bob Rupe

Please delete this article Bob Rupe. I do not want to have a page of my personal life on your site. In fact, I insist it be removed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.125.180.232 (talk) 03:53, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Not particularly notable, but please see WP:COI w/respect to editing an article about a subject for which anyone has a direct connection. Apteva (talk) 04:43, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Very scantily sourced; refs are little more than listings with no biographical content. Apteva has proposed it for deletion, and unless it is substantially improved in the interim I see no objection to deleting it per the PROD rationale and policy at Wikipedia:Blp#Deletion_of_BLPs_of_relatively_unknown_subjects. - Karenjc 07:57, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

PROD has been disputed, next step is Afd. Anyone?--ukexpat (talk) 14:38, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

The article is (now) scantily sourced because 24.125.180.232 (who claims to be its subject) is persistently removing two of its sources. Maproom (talk) 17:16, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I tried to request semi-protection on the page, but my request didn't format correctly. It might be a good idea for someone to request semi-protection while AfD is in progress. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:36, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Also, 24.125.180.232, if you persist in removing material from the article, you could be blocked. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:36, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protection is not needed if all of the edits are from a single IP address. Apteva (talk) 20:40, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

James and Stacy Keach bios

James Keach is not married to Jane Seymour, as it says in his bio. It is his brother Stacy who is married to her. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.213.134.78 (talk) 04:51, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

This says otherwise.[1] Stacy appears to still be married to Malgosia Tomassi, since 1985.[2] Apteva (talk) 05:05, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Defamatory comments on page

I am writing as the article about Tom Waterhouse is continuously edited by someone with untrue and defamatory information regarding Rob Waterhouse. Rob Waterhouse recently won a court case against these allegations and every time I change the entry and delete these negative comments, it reverts back within a matter of hours. I feel this is a personal attack on Rob Waterhouse and the Waterhouse family and something which needs to be taken seriously.

" He is the son of convicted perjurer and race fixer[2] Robbie Waterhouse." " Waterhouse's father, Robert "Robbie" Waterhouse and grandfather William "Bill" Waterhouse are also bookmakers. They have attracted controversy in the past including the loss of their bookmaker's licences for eighteen years (originally life bans) due to their involvement in the Fine Cotton substitution scandal in 1984.[9] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.146.66.238 (talk) 05:26, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

You should discuss this on the article's talk page. If the statements are backed up by reliable sources, you'll need to explain why they shouldn't be used. Don't enage in an edit war. RudolfRed (talk) 05:32, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

adding new articles

Is it possible to add new articles under the same user name and if so how do I do this — Preceding unsigned comment added by Craftmethodology (talk • contribs) 09:10, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

A WP:Username is a unique identifier for a person, and is used to identify that person's contributions. Any number of articles can be created by one person, using that same username. A user name that is tied to one article is not recommended, and often not allowed. That is what is known as a Single Purpose Account. While there are legitimate uses for alternate accounts, most edits can be done with a single account. I would suggest reading the username policy and choosing a different username. Most editors do not use their real name, and before doing so, it is important to read that section to understand the ramifications. A good place to start learning how to create articles is WP:Your first article. Apteva (talk) 09:34, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

If you are referring to the content on your user page, then it's not yet an article, nor should it be in anythiing like its present form. Firstly, it has no references. Secondly, it appears to be a copy or very close paraphrase of the web content here and here, so it almost certainly breaches our rules on copyright violation even though I cannot find an overt copyright notice on the pages concerned. Finally, it appears to be in breach of our rules on promotional content; because it is written in non-encyclopaedic, promotional language and actively markets a commercial product. Your username appears to confirm your conflict of interest with respect to the material. Sorry, but it is unsuitable for Wikipedia without a comprehensive rewrite and evidence of notability, and it should not be written by someone with a conflict of interest. - Karenjc 10:54, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

While Karenjc's advice is all good and you should definitely take note of it, I think the answer to the question you actually meant to ask is that it is not recommended to create articles on your user page at all, but it is common practice to create as many user sub pages as you like to work on articles in. --ColinFine (talk) 22:39, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Traduction de textes

Bonjour, aux dirigeants du site, Comment se fait-il que certaines pages rédigées en anglais, commencent par être traduites, automatiquement, en français, puis, très rapîdement, cette traduction disparaît pour revenir au texte d'origine, avec pour information: "erreur du serveur"? Avec tous mes remerciements. Respectueusement. Patrick Jacquier — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.212.240.67 (talk) 10:12, 9 May 2013 (UTC) (trans. Hello, website officals, Why is it that when some pages in English begin to be translated automatically into French, the translation very quickly goes back to the original text, with the information "Server Error "? With thanks. Respectfully. Patrick Jacquier) No idea what the answer might be. Yunshui 雲‍水 10:18, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I assume that you are referring to the Google Chrome built-in translation feature. Please note that this is Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. You are currently at the help desk, which is only for questions involving Wikipedia. You may be able to find an answer at the computing reference desk. Regards, FrigidNinja 21:23, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Derek Redmond

Hi I am Derek Redmonds wife and assistant Maria Redmond and would like to change a couple of the details you have on his Wikipedia.In the external links the website you have for him he no longer wishes to be connected to and he has a new website that is www.officialderekredmond.com He would also like you to remove the Agents Website as he no longer works with any one agent and now solely represents himself. We would be very grateful if you would make these changes.

Yours Sincerely

Maria

Maria Redmond — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dmearreika (talk • contribs) 12:52, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

 Done in this edit. I also removed a few of the other links per WP:EL.--ukexpat (talk) 14:43, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

What is wrong with my page?

I do not understand why the questions regarding my page remain on the page. My page was edited and links to verify were added, but the problems listing remain, and I am wondering why?

Elaine Mayes14:29, 9 May 2013 (UTC)68.113.39.179 (talk)

Your contribution record shows no edits except for your question here. Which page are you talking about? - David Biddulph (talk) 14:38, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

If you are talking about Elaine Mayes, there do seem to have been a number of updates since the tags were placed in April 2011. If the problems have been addressed, the corresponding tags can be removed. - David Biddulph (talk) 14:44, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I have removed the maintenance templates.--ukexpat (talk) 16:08, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Adding links to WikiData

How in the heck can I link an existing article on the Finnish Wikipedia to an existing article on the English Wikipedia in WikiData? I'm trying to link fi:Maalarinteippi to Masking tape. But if I try to add a link to fi:Maalarinteippi to the Masking tape article on WikiData, I get an error that the tag is already used. And if I try to do it the other way around, I get the same error. Do I have to remove the existing tag first before I can add it to the correct article? JIP | Talk 15:50, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

You don't have to add anything. The Wikidata entry for masking tape at d:Q3775755 already lists the en and fi articles and the relevant interlanguage links appear in the en and fi articles.--ukexpat (talk) 16:03, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I just added it. The Anonymouse (talk | contribs) 16:04, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

 Fixed There was a duplicate item on Wikidata, but I removed the link from that item and added it to the masking tape item (basically, I merged the to items). The Anonymouse (talk | contribs) 16:04, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Shawn Thompson

The birth date on the wiki page under Shawn Thompson is wrong. He is not 61 years of age. It was sourced from IMDB who have since removed that erroneous birth date.

16:21, 9 May 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Shawn Thompson (talk • contribs)

Thank you for not editing the article yourself, which would have been a conflict of interest. It appears that the article has been edited. If you can provide a reliable source about yourself, someone can improve the article. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:47, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

How do I remove the boxes at the top of the page for Bruce Van De Velde?

How do I remove the boxes at the top of the page for Bruce Van De Velde? I believe I have made the necessary changes but they will not go away.

This article includes a list of references, but its sources remain unclear because it has insufficient inline citations. Please help to improve this article by introducing more precise citations. (January 2013)

This biographical article relies on references to primary sources. Please add references to secondary or tertiary sources. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous or harmful. (January 2013) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edrewett (talk • contribs) 16:35, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

(ec)You have not fully addressed the problems pointed out by the tags - The Bruce Van De Velde article relies on primary sources - specifically the website of his employer. Articles must be based mainly on independent reliable sources - such as mainstream news media, not sources that are directly connected to the subject. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:54, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

If you are Bruce Van De Velde, please do not edit the article yourself, which would be a conflict of interest, but you may provide reliably sourced information on the article's talk page. Robert McClenon (talk) 16:49, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

In fact the sites listed as External links are superior sources for the article than the one that is used. BTW a Google search result is not an acceptable source at all. Roger (Dodger67) (talk) 16:57, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I think that I agree, but am requesting a clarification. I agree that a Google search as such is not an acceptable source. However, I assume that you agree that a Google search can be used to find external web sites that are reliable, and that the editor doing the Google search should use judgment in whether the sites found are reliable. Are we in agreement? Robert McClenon (talk) 18:40, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes, nobody is saying that you can't use Google to find your sources. But using Google's search results page as a source is a no-no. Dismas|^(talk) 18:48, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Redirects from userspace to article space

I created some articles on subpages in userspace. When I was satisfied, I moved them to article space (mainspace). This created redirects from userspace to article space. First, is there any positive value to these redirects? My assumption is that there is not, and that they are simply the result of the way that a move between mainspace and mainspace is supposed to work. Second, is there any negative value or harm to these redirects? For instance, can they create useless hits in searching? If so, how can I get rid of them? Should I tag them with {{prod}}, for instance? Robert McClenon (talk) 17:06, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I usually tag them for speedy deletion per G6 as "routine housekeeping". As you created them you can tag them for speedy with G7, "author requests deletion".--ukexpat (talk) 17:11, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

If they are in your own userspace tag them with - {{db-user}} - they will be deleted quickly and painlessly.

Archiving Article Talk Pages

Are article talk pages archived periodically by a bot? Is there a way to tag them to be archived by a bot? If not, do they have to be archived manually by an editor? Robert McClenon (talk) 17:09, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

They are not auto-archived unless the appropriate templates are added to the page. See Wikipedia:ARCHIVING.--ukexpat (talk) 17:11, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

The two talk pages that I had in mind indicate that they are tagged for archival by User:MiszaBot. Thank you. Robert McClenon (talk) 18:00, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Unique Acronym

I created two articles that have unique acronyms. That is, the entry of the acronym doesn't result in a hit either as a redirect or to a disambiguation page. Should I create redirects from the acronyms to the articles? (I know that if the article has an acronym that already has a disambiguation page, I should add an entry to the disambiguation page for the acronym.) Robert McClenon (talk) 17:13, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Sure, redirects are cheap and they can always be converted into disam pages later if required.--ukexpat (talk) 17:19, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

vincent cornier, need to contact him as we hold the rights to vincents books and sholud not of been published

pls contact myself or send me mike ashbys details we are seeking legal help thank you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.121.134.177 (talk) 17:47, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I suspect, based on your question, that you found one of our over 4 million articles and thought we were affiliated in some way with that subject. Please note that you are at Wikipedia, the free online encyclopedia that anyone can edit, and this page is for asking questions related to using or contributing to Wikipedia itself. Thus, we have no special knowledge about the subject of your question. You can, however, search our vast catalogue of articles by typing a subject into the search field on the upper right side of your screen. If you cannot find what you are looking for, we have a reference desk, divided into various subject areas, where asking knowledge questions is welcome. Best of luck. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:54, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

If you have an issue with an article in Wikipedia itself, please provide more detail. Robert McClenon (talk) 17:54, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I see that the editor of Vincent Cornier's book "The Duel of Shadows" is not Mike Ashby but Mike Ashley. Maybe you will find him more easily now that you know his name. Maproom (talk) 21:18, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

New Borns face Book Page

Could you please remove this page ASAP as the content of some of the pictures of our grandkids and children of freinds have not been given permission for them to be used in this way and find this very intrusive to our privacy as all my families accounts are private and locked so these pictures cannot be seen !!!!! Please close down this page immediatley !!!! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.19.118.248 (talk) 19:47, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

This is the Wikipedia Help Desk. It appears that you have an issue with a Facebook page, not with a Wikipedia page. Please take it up with Facebook. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:55, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

If information from Facebook has been copied into a Wikipedia article, please tell us what article is in question. Robert McClenon (talk) 19:55, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

See #Newborn Babies on facebook up the page.--ukexpat (talk) 20:55, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

This page may be relevant. It claims "Facebook Community Pages ... automatically aggregate data based users’ likes and interests. ... a user clicks on one of these community pages, and then that user sees posts, photos etc. from their friends that have the keyword in a status update." I would not call it a "reliable source", though. Maproom (talk) 21:03, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

please enter my details

ishtiyaq ahmad naikoo .. MA economics from GNDU Amratsar Pb Diver lolab kupwara near dilbagh school diver. BA from Amar singh college Srg. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.201.242.241 (talk) 20:44, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

This is Wikipedia, an online encyclopaedia. We do not have 'details' on people. We may however have articles on people who pass our notability guidelines. Possessing an Ma in economics would not in itself meet our requirements - and in any case, our articles are based on published reliable sources, rather than personal statements. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:52, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

New Question

I would like to make this article that I wrote (see link below) a finished piece, but I do not know how. I need it to be posted as soon as possible for a class assignment--within 24 hours at the latest. Thanks in advance! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_palestine_poster_project_archives#Uses_of_the_Palestine_Poster_Project_Archives Yallabye (talk) 22:48, 9 May 2013 (UTC)Yallabye

An article currently exists at The palestine poster project archives. --Demiurge1000 (talk) 23:00, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

I moved it to Palestine poster project archives but it should probably be Palestine Poster Project Archives.--ukexpat (talk) 01:19, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I renamed it to correct the capitalization. Robert McClenon (talk) 02:24, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Template refreshing glitch

A problem I had related to what I was talking before. I created a template that doesn't seem to refresh it's later edits (after the first edit) not unless you go to the edit portion of the intended article. Call me crazy but I don't think it's supposed to do that. I did notice Wikipedia did that before while I was editing the same navbox yesterday (but it didn't last) although this one takes the case as being worse because this one doesn't seem to refresh at all. I went on here because I am not sure where to go about it and I know somebody would listen on here. Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 22:50, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

So you have {{Superman}}

and {{Superman/adversaries}}{{Superman/adversaries}}

and each has the same list of 12 villains as the latter is transcluded into the former. Everything looks happy now to me. When you add a villain to the adversaries sub-template, there may be a delay in that update transcluding to the Superman template until the server cache is refreshed by the system. But you should be able to accelerate that if you don't want to wait, see Wikipedia:Purge. – Wbm1058 (talk) 00:48, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

• Guys, seriously - this is diseased.

• We ought to be using categories instead of infoboxes.

• But if you deny that, at least we ought to be limiting infoboxes to spam only a few links to a few articles, not hundreds of links to each of hundreds of articles. Anybody looking up any one of these characters on a search engine will get a hundred junk hits to sorta-maybe related articles that have the term only in the template, rendering the search futile.

• But if you deny that, at least we ought to have an infobox template all in one template, not in multiple sublevels being assembled together so that you have to go on a paper chase just to find where the article content can be edited.

• But if you deny that, then at least we should have one version of the infobox, not different versions for each article that trim or don't trim a few names here and there.

• But if you deny that, then at least you shouldn't send {{PAGENAME}} as a parameter from the upper template so that an arbitrary number of different versions of the same infobox can be generated from this subscript, depending how you edit it...

• My feeling is that somehow we've lost track of the notion that there should be some kind of clear command and control over the actual content within an article by means of editing that article itself. If a template is designed to deliver a short list or a long list, at the very least it should have a parameter short-list or long-list right in the main call from the article page, which is explained in the docs for the top level template. Wnt (talk) 05:38, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

You make some very good points. Templates that transclude on dozens or hundreds of pages make cleaning up after page moves very tedious and time consuming when cleanup involves finding where the links that need to be updated are "hiding." If a page transcludes several templates, you need to go on a scavenger hunt, randomly making guesses until you find the one. Unless two templates transclude the same link, then you need to keep looking. Wbm1058 (talk) 11:30, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Well, it was refreshed now on one of the articles (not the rest of them). Although I am guessing we now have issues with the sub-template now. My idea was basically modeled after Template:Batman's Template:Batman/adversaries. We have a category on just Superman villain but basically all the DC comics villains. If you guys have such a issue on the switch I suppose I can get rid of it. I couldn't understand every point that you tried to come across with. I do assume when you say infobox you mean navbox right? Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 14:02, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Right, I think Wnt meant WP:NAVBOX. An example infobox these articles might use is Template:Infobox film, e.g., Superman II uses one. Wbm1058 (talk) 16:08, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Did you try purging as described in mw:Manual:Purge? Maybe if you can give an example page that isn't working, what you expect it to show, and what it is actually showing? For example, General Zod is showing me a list of 12 "primary enemies" and 24 "Other recurring enemies"—is that what you want it to do? When I look at just the plain template I still see 12 "villains" without the primary/other breakdown. That's under template control? Syntax to make that happen should be documented. Wbm1058 (talk) 16:46, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I exactly did trying purging it by placing ?action=purge on the url (right after my last comment on here) and it seems to work. So thanks for the suggestion. Is there any issues that you think needs fixed or changed? Would it be better withought the switch device? Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 17:09, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

I don't want to discourage what you're doing too much, I do appreciate your initiative and creativity. There are differing opinions on this, for example:

• Wikipedia:A navbox on every page
• Wikipedia:Not everything needs a navbox

I do think navboxes are fine, when used in moderation. If your plan is to show a more complete list of villains only on articles about other villains, in general I think that's a good approach. Don't overdo it with too many navboxes on a single page, that's what can introduce maintenance headaches. Good luck, Wbm1058 (talk) 17:44, 10 May 2013 (UTC)

Ok then. I do remember that second essay. Nice find on the first one. It wouldn't be discouraging if you didn't agree with it. I have made plenty of other edits of the particular navbox to not render my edits useless. Also I am not sure I am 100% for it either. That's why I asked. I would like to thank you for you're help. First time I learned about purging. ;) Jhenderson ⁷⁷⁷ 20:59, 10 May 2013 (UTC)