Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2009 September 18

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September 18

Edit War

How do I call an administrator's attention to an edit war on an article? The article in question is Daniel Sieradski. 18:31, 21 September 2009 (UTC)

Trouble with transclusion (newbie at templates)

Hello all,

I am not sure whether I should end up here, but I pass all the criteria for not being elsewhere, and I am sure one of you will point me elsewhere. So, thanks and apologies in advance and I make this longer in case it is easier for you to pass it on.

I am a reasonably experienced editor just grappling with template syntax, or transclusion syntax. I am a computer programmer of about 25 years so am reasonably happy with syntax, I just have made some stupid error somewhere I can' spot.

I have just started making a couple of templates: {{KSH2008}} in the Template space (yeah, I should have done it in user space but it was doing no harm there) which is useful in Hungarian infoboxes to reference Hungarian template data. I am now working on an "inherited" infobox at User:SimonTrew/Hungarian settlement and it is going quite nicely, but passing data on to {{KSH2008}} I cannot get it right. The relevant bit of the template is this:

|area_footnotes = {{#if:{{{ksh_code_2008|}}} |<ref name="KSH2008">{{KSH2008|{{{ksh_code_2008|}}} |{{{official_name|}}} }}

The aim of this is that, if ksh_code_2008 is given to the "Hungarian settlement" template, it passes it on to KSH2008 as the census code for the place, and creates a reference for it ({{KSH2008}} uses {{cite}}). (I appreciate that it is probably not good form to name a reference that then ends up named in the article editor's namespace, but that is not the point right now; several sections of the infobox use it but only one defines it, so unless an editor has the bloody-mindedness to call a reference KSH2008 all is well.)

But I cannot get {{Hungarian settlement}} to pass it on to {{KSH2008}}. I know it's coming through that code because I get something, i.e. what KSH2008 does without parameters, go to the main Hungarian census page. There is probably something very obviously wrong with this syntax but as far as I can tell by reading I have got it all right. What it does is that KSH2008 believes that ksh_code_2008 is blank, even though it cannot be to have passed the top #if, and I have put in test code to ensure it is not blank. If I replace the parameters with literal text, all is well. I am very puzzled as obviously I am doing something wrong and is probably very simple but I cannot understand what.

User:SimonTrew/Abony has an article which uses this template-in-embryo; the live page is in article space at Abony. Thanks and apologies once again for your help. SimonTrew (talk) 01:17, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Your problem is the closing:

|area_footnotes= {{#if:{{{ksh_code_2008|}}}|<ref name="KSH2008">{{KSH2008|{{{ksh_code_2008|}}}}}|{{{official_name|}}} }}

It should work with that. –túrian^patois 01:48, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I am sorry but it does not. Or if it does, I am an idiot. I tried to copy it faithfully, then reformatted it to get the braces to match up to make sure they did, but it still does not work. Forgive me for being very stupid here. If you know how to make it work, if you looked at the links I gave you to spot the problem, could you please just edit it for me to do so? I don't expect an extensive test (that's my job!) but when I pasted that in, I think faithfully, it spewed on the template page i.e. I think you are one over. I am sure I will just go OOOOOOOOOOOH I should have seen that, when I find out what it is, but I suspect you either are incorrect or not making clear. But I do thank you all the same for helping! The accent on "Túrian" and the "patois" doesn't help when I have spent the last three days sorting out Hungarian and French articles!

My best wishes SimonTrew (talk) 02:31, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you for your time to help. 02:31, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

IRC

Whenever I click on any irc link on Wikipedia, nothing happens. Is anything supposed to? WHat does this mean, if nothing does? Intelligentsium 02:25, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, you need to have an IRC client, or it won't work. If you are using firefox, you can add the Chatzilla add-on, for example. WP:IRC gives full details. ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 02:27, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

If you can't/don't want to install a client on your system, you can also access the Wikipedia IRC channels in your browser, at http://webchat.freenode.net/ or http://toolserver.org/~bjelleklang/pjirc/ . These require Java. ∙ AJCham^talk 11:19, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

HEATING PAD

CAN U USE A HEATING PAD WITH METHODONE? I KNOW I CAN'T WITH THE FENTANYL PATCH

Medical advice removed.

I'm sorry, but Wikipedia does not give medical advice. --Kraftlos (Talk | Contrib) 06:07, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Unless Bugs meant arrest. Hamster Sandwich (talk) 06:36, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

In which case, Wikipedia does not give legal opinions :) Gonzonoir (talk) 08:26, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Does this constitute as vandalism?

Resolved

 –  – ukexpat (talk) 21:32, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I apologize if this question is in the wrong place as I'm unsure really where to ask this.. I'll mention just a little bit of history about the user to make this question make sense... there is a user on wikipedia who was banned from a fansite of a cartoon. They were permanently banned for harassing members. Three days after their ban from the fansite, they removed the link (an external link) to the fansite off of the article for the cartoon, claiming it was at the request of the fansite's owner (which the person they are referring to is not the owner). I very surely believe this to be in retaliation to their ban and thus, in my opinion, would constitute as an act of vandalism.

Am I wrong about if this is vandalism, or am I correct? And if I am correct, what should I do to go about preventing the user from doing it again? Again, I apologize if my question is in the wrong place, and if there are instructions for this somewhere on the site. I am very unfamiliar with the formatting of Wikipedia.

I will clarify any part of my message here further, if needed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Msfire (talk • contribs) 06:44, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I assume that you mean this diff on Sonic the Hedgehog (TV series). The removal in question was in this diff. As the editor in question appears to have only done this the one time, although it could count as vandalism, it was reverted by you (albeit belatedly) - a one-off piece of vandalism doesn't necessarily even need a warning, yet alone reporting. An editor's behaviour off-wikipedia has no effect on how we treat them on here - unless the user has vandalised multiple times on here, then we count them as a reliable editor. Should there be further instances of vandalism by the editor, they can be dealt with.

In summary: although this could be vandalism, there is insufficient evidence for this (the editor could have been making a good faith edit). This does not require reporting, especially not 40 days after the event. -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 07:26, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

It's a link to a fansite's forum. I just re-removed it per WP:ELNO. Tim Song (talk) 07:31, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Steve, I understood what you meant, but I found your last sentence to be slightly ambiguous. "... unless the user has vandalised multiple times on here, then we count them as a reliable editor." I am sure you intended to say something like: "we count them as a reliable editor, unless they have vandalized multiple times on here". Regards, decltype (talk) 07:36, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

• That is indeed what I meant to type, Decltype! Thanks for clarifying it -- PhantomSteve (Contact Me, My Contribs) 12:26, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I appreciate everyone's replies (and thank you for the edit of the signature on my first message, Phantomsteve!). And yes, that is the article. I do actually remember more content being on the page before talking about information about the boxset, in which the external link was in place as an official reference source to what was stated about the boxset, though I don't know how far back that was lost in the edits. But I am curious then...If both the external link is removed by the user and the link has to be placed back in repeatedly, it would be vandalism then on the part of the user who continually removes it? Or would that be evidence of it (and possibly after repeated instances of it something would or could be done)? I am a bit unclear on when in this instance it would be considered vandalism and therefore can have action of some kind taken.

And Tim Song, you raised a new question for me. If still, after all of that, that the external link that was removed is one that should not be there, should a few of the others not be there as well? As Saturday Morning Sonic is another fansite of the show. Though if material is referenced to the site within the article, I am unsure, as I did not check to see if there was any referenced material pointing to that website. Msfire (talk • contribs) 07:55, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

ELs are not supposed to be references, which are in a separate section and have their own policy - WP:RS. I removed the link because it was painfully apparent that it's a fansite; there are probably other inappropriate links, but I didn't have time to check. Tim Song (talk) 13:20, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Thank you all for your replies. I have found this to be very helpful information and have learned something new in the process (I did not know about WP:ELNO until now!).Msfire (talk • contribs) 07:55, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Why can't I upload a new version of an image ?

A warning came out when I try to upload it. How can this problem be solved ? Arteyu ? _{Blame it on me !} 08:39, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

• Upload warning

"A file with this name exists at the Wikimedia Commons. You can: go back and upload this file to Wikipedia using a different name. upload it to Commons, if your intent is to replace the image that already exists with a better version."

This happened to me when I tried to upload a new version of a cover for a single. I had to just upload it as a new image in the end. Spiderone 08:52, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

The image I want to replace is a copyrighted logo, how can I upload it on commons ? Arteyu ? _{Blame it on me !} 08:59, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Logos are presumed copyright and not accepted on Commons. A low resolution copy is acceptable on en.wiki if an appropriate Fair use statement can be made. Finavon (talk) 11:05, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I think Arteyu's saying that s/he's trying to replace a copyright logo with a non-copyright image? If that's the case, are you able to upload your image directly to Commons (rather than to WP) with the name you're trying via Commons:Upload? Gonzonoir (talk) 11:31, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

This is a recent software problem. It has been reported at Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)#Image update problem and bugzilla:20677. PrimeHunter (talk) 11:46, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Unbroken Wikipedia Static HTML (English)

Is there somewhere in the archives a copy of the above which is downloadable? The later the better. 2008-06 is broken and I can't access 2008-03. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.194.221.231 (talk • contribs) 09:09, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

http://static.wikipedia.org/downloads/2008-06/en/ - a 14GB compressed file which is going to take a while to download! Finavon (talk) 11:43, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I said that 2008-06 is broken and 2008-03 is inaccessible. Is there an unbroken version that I can download?

Deleted my page, but...

Resolved

Hi. I recently delete the page I was working on because for some reason it was posted before I was done with it (I'm sure it was somehow a mistake on my end). With that said, I would like to start it again and not have it post till it's finished. Two questions: 1) Is there any way to get the information back from the deleted page? and 2) what should I do to build my page and review it without posting it to the public. Thanks!—Preceding unsigned comment added by Mwhip0908 (talk • contribs)

Only admins can delete anything. What page are you talking about? Zain Ebrahim (talk) 13:10, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

User:Mwhip0908/Hundred Hands Down was deleted by User:Jac16888 because you requested deletion by placing {{db-g7}} on the page. I have undeleted it (only administrators can do this) and removed {{db-g7}}. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:35, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

The page is a user subpage which is the correct place to work on a draft before it becomes part of the encyclopedia. However, it is still visible to everyone at the Wikipedia site and userspace pages should not be in categories intended for articles so the categories were removed in [1]. If you want to see which categories the draft is in without listing it in those categories then you can restore the categories but place a colon ':' before the category names like this: [[:Category:2000s music groups]]. That creates a link to Category:2000s music groups without placing the page in the category. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:41, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

People will usually not look at your userspace drafts when they are not in categories, but if you want the content to be invisible to others then you have to make a copy for offline work and request deletion again. You can then only check how it wil look in Wikipedia by copying the content into an edit box and use the "Show preview" button without saving. (If you have access to a non-public MediaWiki installation then you can also work on it there but templates and other things may give a different appearance from Wikipedia). PrimeHunter (talk) 13:50, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for the help! I'll make a copy of my article offline and redelete the page.

If you want to run MediaWiki as your own Personal wiki for offline editing see mw:Manual:Wiki on a stick. --Teratornis (talk) 19:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Lost Contribution to AfD Discussion

Resolved

Once I was happy with my contribution to an AfD discussion, I hit "save" and received an "edit conflict" message saying I could merge my text into that which was presented above, which I did. Turned out an admin had closed the discussion while I was still editing, and my "save" was immediately reverted by another user as having come in too late.

My comment/vote wouldn't have changed the outcome, but given that there were between 10 and 18 other AfD discussions initiated on the same day, and that some of them were older than "mine", shouldn't he have gone on to another one, and given me the chance to finish? It was very disappointing to lose two hours work - I wrote carefully, and commented at some length, and I write very slowly anyway.

I'm assuming, of course, that he would have seen the same "edit conflict" message, when he hit "save", that I saw myself. If that's not an accurate assumption, well, then nevermind. :-) Thanks, Ohiostandard (talk) 13:46, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

It is not an accurate assumption. The first person to click "Save page" gets no indication that somebody else may have clicked edit (and possibly Show preview) without saving yet. Many people click edit without ever attempting to save (I often do this just to see the page source) so I don't think a warning system would be practical. PrimeHunter (talk) 13:55, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Well, then ... nevermind :-)

Btw, do you guys mark a question "resolved" or do I? Don't know how, if it's my responsibility. many thanks, Ohiostandard (talk) 14:07, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

It is preferred that the original poster marks as resolved since others don't always know whether the poster is satisfied with the replies. I have marked as resolved. I got an edit conflict with you when trying to save the below but maybe it is still of interest so I save it anyway.

The AfD was 7 days old, the normal age to close AfD's, when you commented in [2] and the outcome looked certain. I understand your frustration but I would not personally have spent a lot of time commenting on an AfD about to be closed with the result I wanted. When making a slow edit that may depend on intermediate edits by others (for example here at the help desk where somebody may reply before me), I sometimes check the page for new edits while investigating and writing my own reply. PrimeHunter (talk) 14:11, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I would not personally have spent a lot of time commenting on an AfD about to be closed with the result I wanted. Yes, that would have been silly if I'd known it was about to be closed. Only learned of the 7-day timeframe afterwards; had no idea of the timeframe. Thanks again. Ohiostandard (talk) 14:24, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

How do I add to an existing article please?

How do I add to an existing article please?

For example, in this existing Wikipedia article: 2.HMS Melampus was a fifth rate frigate built in 1785 and sold in 1815 after service in the French Revolutionary and Napoleonic Wars., I wanted to add a picture of the ship and further detail.

I did log in, and tried to upload an edit, but nothing seems to have happened. Can you help please? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cwmarineart (talk • contribs)

When you go to a page, there's a tab named edit this page at the top. There are edit links next to each section as well. You can click either, change the text in the edit box that comes up, and save. It's basically the same way that you edited this page. You might want to take a look at Wikipedia:How to edit a page as well. ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 14:19, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Regarding images, see Wikipedia:Images. Your quote is from HMS Melampus. That is an index page for ships and should not contain a lot of details. You can add details to the linked HMS Melampus (1785). PrimeHunter (talk) 00:33, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Template:Infobox GP2 round report

Hi, I have a little problem with this template: the question is easy :)

In this template, there are some items, like Round_No", "Pole_driver" and more. One GP2 round consists of two distinct races ("Feature Race" and "Sprint Race") except 2005, 2006 and 2007. In these three races, only "Feature" race was held.

Can you help me?

if Date_r2 then
    "Feature Race" and "Sprint Race"
else
    "Feature Race"

Examples:

• F and S race: 2007 Monaco GP2 round
• F race: 2008 Monaco GP2 round

Thanks and sorry for my bad english :) --Francesco Betti Sorbelli (talk) 14:08, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Twinkle

Twinkle is not working for me, I need help, Friendly is, but Twinkle isn't showing up! Why? Programmer101 (talk) 14:31, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Try asking for advice at Wikipedia talk:Twinkle. They're usually pretty helpful. hmwith☮ 14:36, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I even tried to importScript('User:AzaToth/twinkle.js'); to my monobook, but is still not working!

Are you using Internet Explorer? ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 14:50, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

No way! I use the holy Firefox! (I now that it doesn't work for IE) Nothing seems to work! Programmer101 (talk) 15:00, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

If I'm correct Twinkle doesn't work for "newish" users. - Kingpin¹³ (talk) 15:17, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Facepalm Ah... of course! You have to be autoconfirmed. Programmer101, you'll have to wait for four more days. ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 15:29, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Correct - per WP:Twinkle, it only works if you are an autoconfirmed user - account has to be at least 4 days old with at least 10 edits. So, patience grasshopper... – ukexpat (talk) 15:31, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Check corruption

Please check if there's a virus connected with 2003-09-18 1555Z.jpg this picture. I've downloaded it successfully but every time I try to crop it the computer refuses to save the changes and serveral times I had to restart the computer. People who make a living selling pictures and photographs may feel threatened by Wikipedia and Wikimedia allowing people to get pictures free without breaking copyright and they may fight us by damaging pictures. I copied the detailed image from Wikimedia, I don't feel like restarting the computer yet again to see if this less detailed image is also corrupted. Proxima Centauri (talk) 14:20, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

The image seems to be fine, and works for me. I'm guessing your computer gets stuck since it's a large image; give it a few seconds and see. WP:RD/C might be a better place if you are looking for technical stuff on this. ≈ Chamal ^talk ¤ 14:53, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I put it to 120px, no problem, what kind of computer do you have? Its probably you. Programmer101 (talk) 14:58, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I've now downloaded the less detailed version and cropped it without trouble, thanks. I have a Compaq laptop that cost about £400, it's intermediate in power and is just a year old. The picture looks fine on my desktop but isn't as detailed as I like. Proxima Centauri (talk) 15:56, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Have you ever tried cropping/editing it using an online image editor (such as Picknik, Lunapic, or Fotoflexer)...it may be your editor.Smallman12q (talk) 11:55, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

Lupin's Anti-Vandalism tool

First twinkle, now this! Doesn't work either! Programmer101 (talk) 15:22, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Ok, It works for IE. Programmer101 (talk) 15:31, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Casual suggestions

I don't want to start a subpage. All I wanted to do was make the suggestion "Would somebody please add to the South Australian Wind Farms data a map of their sites." When I clicked on a link that looked as if I could (maybe) do that I got a page that started with "W~ does not have a subpage with the title '....blah...'. Before you create a subpage look at '...urk...' ".

In desperation I looked at "...urk..." and it is all too flaming complicated (truly urk).

Surely, for us drongos there could be a simple way for the average nit to make such a suggestion? Yes, I realise that I am asking for a basic change in the way that W~ does things but it should be beneficial. There must be many a user who would make a suggestion if there was a simple way to do it.

Please do not come back at me to say that I should create an account and add the data myself because that is the way W~ is structured. I know that but I don't want to because: (a) I would have to research it and that is what I came to W~ for in the first place. There must be people out there who know where they are without having to research. It might even be in a Gov. handout which somebody already has. (b) At 79 I no longer feel capable, my programming days were 40 years ago when many of you who will read this weren't even into three cornered pants.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.217.194.22 (talk • contribs)

The easiest way to suggest changes is on the talk page of the relevant article. – ukexpat (talk) 16:51, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Which I am going to guess is List of wind farms in South Australia? ---— Gadget850 (Ed) ^talk 16:55, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

If you want to add a locator map to an article, check out some examples in Wind power in Maine and Wind power in Ohio. These maps are great for any type of article about facilities in multiple locations. If you want to suggest an improvement to an article, see Help:Talk page and Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines. Note that I suggested adding a locator map in Talk:Cape Wind#Locator map but I didn't add it to the article proper yet because it would sort of conflict with another map already there. Adding locator maps to Wikipedia articles is not too difficult because some other users have already done the heavy lifting to create the templates: {{Location map start}}, {{Location map marker}}, and {{Location map end}}. The main job is to collect the coordinates for all the locations you want to put on the map. For wind farms, these should (eventually) be in the individual wind farm articles on Wikipedia. Don't sell yourself short, I'm sure plenty of 79 year old can figure this out. You don't need to create an account to edit Wikipedia. --Teratornis (talk) 18:56, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I put a sample locator map in Talk:List of wind farms in South Australia#Locator map to get the ball rolling. Most of the wind farm coordinates are already in the table in the article, so putting them into a locator map is nothing more than some grunt editing well within the capability of any drongo. Since there are so many wind farms, it might be necessary to create multiple locator maps for the operating and proposed wind farms, in case a single map gets too cluttered. --Teratornis (talk) 19:08, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

pictures

pictures don't show on my PC are thre any specific program I should have to see them? and thank you —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.137.200.21 (talk • contribs) 18:12, 18 September 2009

It may be your browser settings.

• If you're using Firefox, go to Edit > Preferences > Content, and make sure that Load images automatically is checked.
• In IE, Tools > Internet Options > Advanced > Multimedia, and select Show pictures.

BTW, this Help Desk is really only supposed to be for help in using Wikipedia - in future, questions such as the above would be better suited for our Computing Reference Desk. ∙ AJCham^(talk) 19:37, 18 September 2009 (UTC

If it's only pictures on Wikipedia and other Wikimedia sites that don't show then your browser may have a setting to exclude files stored at http://upload.wikimedia.org or to exclude images which are not stored on the same domain as the viewed page. Which browser is it? PrimeHunter (talk) 19:42, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

Who is watching this article (and other questions)

Is there a way to see who is watching a specific article? The reason I ask is that I am thinking about starting a discussion on an article. How would this be advertised to others that are interested in this article? How would they know that I had started a discussion? Do I need to invite them specifically? How would I contact them to enter into the discussion? thanks GloverEpp (talk) 18:17, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

If you make an edit to either the article or the talk pages, anyone who is watching the page will find out on their own so there's no need to contact people. Those watching the article are those who will want to take part most. You can also contact whichever WikiProject(s) the article falls under to try and get other interested parties. People don't usually like mass-messages, so I'd recommend reading WP:CANVASS as well. ~ Amory (user • talk • contribs) 18:41, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

(edit conflict)

1. No. See Help:Watching pages.
2. Use the article's Talk page.
3. If they are watching the article, they will see on their watchlists that you edited its talk page.
4. Maybe.
5. If posting to the talk page doesn't get any replies, look at the article history to see who has edited the article, and you can leave messages on their user talk pages.
6. You're welcome.

--Teratornis (talk) 18:44, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

What is the page Mediawiki:Editwarning being used for?

What is the mediawiki page Mediawiki:Editwarning being used for? It contains only the two wording 'Edit warning', but it does exist, so must be being used for something..? I only ask because the creation of such a named page forms part of a proposal I've outlined. Obviously, I don't want to mess with the smooth running of the encyclopedia, so would altering this page have any effect? -- Anxietycello (talk) 21:56, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

It be there fer use wi' the EditWarning extension, an' that extension is not used on English Wikipedia. Yar!  Chzz  ►  00:59, 19 September 2009 (UTC)

visible wikitext

Resolved. Fixed. Algebraist 22:15, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

I'm not sure how to fix the formatting error at the top of Sodium hydroxide. Thanks. Mjpresson (talk) 21:56, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

What formatting error? Intelligentsium 22:12, 18 September 2009 (UTC)

The one Harej fixed. Algebraist 22:15, 18 September 2009 (UTC)