Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/WCW Light Heavyweight Championship/archive3

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The following is an archived discussion of a featured list nomination. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in Wikipedia talk:Featured list candidates. No further edits should be made to this page.

The list was promoted by PresN via FACBot (talk) 00:27, 31 July 2020 (UTC) [1].[reply]

WCW Light Heavyweight Championship[edit]

WCW Light Heavyweight Championship (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views)

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Nominator(s): GRAPPLE X 16:05, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Hopefully the third time's the charm for this one, which was archived after drawing no responses on its previous two candidacies. It's another short-lived pro-wrestling championship from the early 1990s. I'm aware that there's a degree of overlap between this and List of WWE Cruiserweight Champions, but this is a more thorough look at a separate entity which is only in hindsight considered one and the same with the latter so I don't believe that's going to be an issue. The article was given a copy-editing tag-team by Zppix and Baffle gab1978, and follows the same layout as the FL WCW International World Heavyweight Championship. Thanks for looking at this to anyone who takes the time. GRAPPLE X 16:05, 30 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments
  • As the opening paragraph is only one sentence, I would merge it with the next one
  • "WWE, who purchased WCW's assets in 2001" => "WWE, which purchased WCW's assets in 2001"
  • "Morton and Pillmen contested" - typo
  • "Pillman successfully defended the championship against Tom Zenk at the May 17 WrestleWar event in Jacksonville, Florida; before being defeated" - that semi-colon should be a comma
  • "would depict any maneuver performed from the top rope of the ring as illegal and resulting in disqualification; this effectively ended the appeal of the light heavyweight style" - I don't think it's quite right to say it ended the appeal of the style, as the style would still have been appealing but essentially wasn't allowed to be used. I would say "effectively ended the viability of the light heavyweight style"
  • Think that's it from me -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:12, 12 February 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Resolved comments from Harrias talk 10:05, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Comments from Harrias

The crossover is with List of WWE Cruiserweight Champions (1991–2007) and WWE Cruiserweight Championship (1991–2007), rather than the List of WWE Cruiserweight Champions article you linked, as far as I can tell. I appreciate your comment that it "is only in hindsight considered one and the same". But our current articles treat them the same, and I struggle to see why the prose and brackets can't be merged into WWE Cruiserweight Championship (1991–2007), especially given the current short length of that article, while the list entries are already provided at List of WWE Cruiserweight Champions (1991–2007). It seems to me to contravene 3(c) pretty obviously. Can you convince me otherwise? Harrias talk 12:00, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Ultimately no policy here would give a definitive answer on this and really boils down to which company's opinion we follow--WWE, who currently own the video rights to the content involved, or the historical WCW, who created and managed it. It seems clear to me that the intention behind the creation of the 1996 WCW Cruiserweight title was to have a clean start with a new and separate lineage, and personally I would be in favour of treating it the same way. For what it's worth I think the prose detail here on the Light Heavyweight belt would be undue if merged with the WWE list, which would then essentially have to summarise three different title lineages and explain two partially-recognised merges. Gʀᴀᴘᴘʟᴇ ˣ 14:10, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I have some sympathy with that approach. If that is the case though, I think Wikipedia needs to treat them as separate entities: remove them from the List of WWE Cruiserweight Champions (1991–2007) list (which is an old FL, which needs some work to meet the current standards anyway). That last can just note that the WWE also consider the earlier WCW Light Heavyweight Championship to be one and the same, but direct readers to this link for more information. Similar changes would be needed at WWE Cruiserweight Championship (1991–2007), and the titles of both would need changing to "WWE Cruiserweight Championship (1996–2007)". If we make this distinction clear on the encyclopaedia, then I think this can be considered as a standalone article. Harrias talk 15:07, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
That makes sense. Some page moves would be involved (to use "1996–2007") but I assume that would be uncontroversial. I'll make a start with those two articles tonight to highlight the delineation. Gʀᴀᴘᴘʟᴇ ˣ 20:03, 25 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]
I removed the duplicated content from the earlier list, adding a "see also" for this one. In the parent article for that list I added a hatnote and a bit of extra prose to delineate the two more clearly. I hope this helps. Gʀᴀᴘᴘʟᴇ ˣ 23:35, 26 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Further comments

  • "..with the inaugural champion Brian Pillman being.." Avoid noun plus -ing.
  • "..with the seventh competitor entering.." And again.
  • What does "pin" mean in the knockout chart?
  • "..with masked Japanese wrestler Jushin Thunder Liger. Liger defeated.." Avoid the immediate repetition of "Liger".

Otherwise nothing much of concern here. Harrias talk 08:38, 29 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support all my concerns have been addressed. Harrias talk 10:05, 29 June 2020 (UTC) (Forgot to mention, but I will claim WikiCup points for this review.)[reply]
Source review by MPJ-DK

Since this FLC Is in the orange box at the top of the FLC page I am going to do a source review since it has to be completed before it can possibly be passed for FL. Note, I have my own FLC nomination if anyone wants to reciprocate (not required). Note, while I am part of the WikiCup I am not looking to claim points for the source review I'm going to do. MPJ-DK (talk) 18:09, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]

General comments
  • 7 out of 15 sources are primary, from WWE who now owns the championship. That is almost 50%, which seems less than ideal for Featured content. Keeping in mind that WWE has a tendency to write history as they want it, which is not necessarily the same as how it happened.
  • Online World of Wrestling- WP:PW/RS lists it as "unreliable" and thus needs to be replaced
  • wrestling-titles.com - is generally listed as "unproven" source wise, but I know that their pre-2000 content is mainly built on the "Wrestling Title Histories" book, which is considered about as good a source for championship history as there is, so I'll say in this context that is a reliable source.
  • Is there a location for the 2 book sources?
  • This is where using so many wwe.com articles gets dicey - they all refer to the championship by the wrong name, proving that their "fact" aren't as factual as a Featured List requires.
  • Source review oppose - Grapple X unless the above issues are addressed. MPJ-DK (talk) 15:43, 18 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Image review
  • File:WCW Light Heavyweight Championship.png - Fair use argument is appropriate, lines up with other championship belt images used on Wikipedia. Since the championship was abandoned in 1992 it is unlikely that a free use image of someone with the championship belt is available to use.
  • File:Jushin Thunder Liger.JPG - APpropriately tagged, has been on commons since 2015 with no indicators of copyright issues
Image review Passed MPJ-DK (talk) 18:13, 8 May 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Grapple X I note you haven't edited since April, if we don't get a positive response to this note in a couple of days, I'll archive this nomination. Hope all is well, cheers. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 09:13, 10 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man I am happy to try and get this one over the line. One WWE ref (the current number 9) is needed precisely because it references the fact that WWE re-write history to suit their needs (it supports the statement that they regard the light heavyweight champions as cruiserweight champions). I reckon I can replace the others. MPJ-DK - FYI -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:32, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
ChrisTheDude thanks Chris. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:33, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
The Rambling Man - actually I just noticed that I already supported above. If I now attempt to complete the nom, would it invalidate my support vote (the only vote so far!!)......? -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 08:34, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Probably sub-optimal... but I'd rather the article was up to snuff and let the nom run for longer than have it just crash and burn. The Rambling Man (Stay indoors, stay safe!!!!) 08:38, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
WWE refs replaced with the exception of one which supports the fact that they themselves report something (so this one seems valid) -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 09:13, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]
OWOW source also removed -- ChrisTheDude (talk) 10:00, 24 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Comments and support from Chidgk1[edit]

As someone with no knowledge or interest in this subject but who would like to get it sorted as I see mine is the next oldest:

  • Instead of "The WCW Light Heavyweight Championship is a defunct ..." why not simply say "The WCW Light Heavyweight Championship was a ...."?
  • Instead of " its subsequent lineage would end" why not simply say "it ended"?
  • "During this time" is confusing - should it just be deleted or is it explaining some partial time - I don't understand.
  • "Among Watts' edicts was a new rule that would depict any maneuver performed from the top rope of the ring as illegal and resulting in disqualification; this effectively ended the viability of the light heavyweight style, even though the matches involved in the championship picture had been considered "outstanding" by the fans." confuses me. Does that mean the fans got bored with it after the new rule and stopped watching on TV so the advertisers pulled out? Did only that style become unviable - did the new rule not apply to the lighter weight wrestlers? Presumably the heavier ones could not jump off the top rope anyway? I realise that it is not really a sport but a kind of pre-choreographed show, but for people new to the subject it is a little confusing.

Chidgk1 (talk) 07:52, 27 June 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Promoting. --PresN 22:14, 30 July 2020 (UTC)[reply]

  • Closing note: This candidate has been promoted, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see WP:FLC/ar, and leave the {{featured list candidates}} template in place on the talk page until the bot goes through.
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this page.
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